Unintentional_submarine

Considering the most recent popular use of 'Manners Maketh Man' comes from The Kingsmen, and is used as a prelude for some serious buttkicking, could it have been a rather onesided engagement with guns? Though one would assume battleships would get it when they delete cruisers. So perhaps onesided gunfights in destroyers only?

Was thinking about something. How about a combined graph of Omaha and Murmansk. It is perhaps one of the most glaring examples of Premium quality vs silver meh. So the point is to really show the difference between two of the same ships. In any case, I'm actually interested in the performance of both.

I doubt there will be any name changes. There really isn't any good reason to do it. Even if changes were made to the ships, it would be better to keep the names. It would just be even more confusing if they changed names. After all suddenly these ships with the visuals of a certain class, would be named by secondary ships in that class? Karlsruhe is of course a very special case, and one that could have been avoided (especially now that she is a Cöln II). Regarding any potential torpedo nerfs. It's a possibility, but I doubt it will be as drastic as a 10kn nerf. That would make the Minekaze torps about as good as the Gremyaschy torps but with shorter range. Think about that for a moment. No amount of gun buffs would be able to make up for that. But given that they are clearly going for an abandonment of the torpedo heavy gameplay, it seems logical that they would reduce the torpedo impact in the earlier tiers too. It is after all those tiers that put a sort of PTSD into certain people (I'm not saying that you can't avoid the torps, I most certainly can, just that the requirement for it might be too much and too soon for many new players). The problem is just that the Japanese destroyers until Hatsuharu now, are torpedoboats, not really destroyers as we think of them. Taking their torpedos away would make them incredibly hard to rebalance again. But slowing the torps a bit, and/or reducing their damage a bit I could see, with some corresponding gun buffs. Thus what we see there is most likely just as brainstorming as the almost absurd gun reload times I mentioned earlier. Those are not values we should expect in the end, I think.

Bombs are like really big HE shells. USN 1000 pounders have 101mm penetration, meaning they penetrate everything they face but some turret roofs. At 80mm the 500 pounders can't penetrate battleship turret roofs for the most part. And turrets actually take up a lot of deck space, leading to a lot of hits for no damage. And it should be noted that they can't penetrate the armoured flight decks of the high tier CVs. Hakuryu and Midway are basically immune to all bombs but the 1000 pounders (you can certainly hit the island for damage, but that's not very likely). Saipan carries 1000 pounders, so can penetrate the 87mm thick armoured flight deck.

A King of the Hill sort of gameplay. I suggested that a while ago. A single cap, reasonably small, in the middle, or somewhere that is tactically sound (it should be noted that several maps can't be used with such a mode, like Two Brothers and Shatter). One team caps it, and they get a ticking points at a reasonable rate, but not too fast.

Whoops I listed the range I think. Which is honestly weird as I made a very careful movement so I got to 14km perfectly... Real time was 9.19s

I just went into a Training Battle to give some compare points for the low tier 130mm. 3km: 1.32s5km: 2.4s8km: 4.28s10km: 5.77s12km: 7.35s14km: 13.98s

Ah, that explained the somewhat peculiar movements. I thought you were being cute with the speed throttling. I thought I had you every time, but I was apparently a bad range aim, my shells splashed middle but long or short. I did do well. I think I ended up at 107k. Could have finished a little faster if I had used HE, but I concluded that I could survive spending a bit more time using the AP for citadels (I mean, your buddy was screwed regardless). At least I learned that you have to get closer in order to citadel a Saipan, and by extension a Baltimore with the Soviet 152mm.

Heh... not by me though. I think I did 4-5k to you. Not for a lack of trying though. I was hunting the last two citadels for the mission... didn't even get one, even with the Saipan presenting a broadside to me for 84 shells in a row. Admittedly Saipan uses the Baltimore hull, so I didn't expect a torrent of citadels, but one or two surely? Oh and didn't you get First Blood? But your team just fell apart. The battleships had a weird priority. I thought I was dead and then some when I came around the island... but no, the Amagi decided to lob his shells over me at one of the Bismarcks. And then he ran away to join the others in a futile past-cap rush. It was honestly a little weird.

Ehm... when I look at Shiratsuyu's stats they say that she has a reload of an impressive 4.7 seconds. Which certainly changes things up. But then again, Akatsuki has the same reload, making it a rather moot point. I did however notice that Yugumo has a gun reload of 5.7 seconds. Which is sort of odd, being two tiers higher than Akatsuki. I think we can safely assume that at least some of the stats are not even in test-state right now as they make so little sense. In fact I would guess that they are instead trying to find the right spot for the new gun reload times. One for the flex line, and one for the gun line (the latter obviously being faster). 4.7 seconds is in fact rather fast with the Japanese guns, and carries a lot of power. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't end up at that rate of fire.

Akizuki's 100mm HE appears to have 19mm of penetration, solving that particular issue. http://wows.ga/?p=318&lang=en Since I determined that normal HE pen is caliber divided by 6 and rounded to nearest full figure, minus 1, it would fit well with a 1/5 equation instead. Rather than the cumbersome 5.26 (and lots of decimals) without the rounding and 'minus 1' bits.

Over 7km for close to the worst scenario for the cruiser against something like a Fuso. That's pretty wow... But let's face it, unless you aim for it specifically, there are not that many cases where a cruiser will be perfectly broadside. 10-20 degrees off will probably be closer to the norm of a 'broadside' cruiser. Heck even 30 degrees looks practically flat on. Still, this was further out than I anticipated, and I shudder to think about the RN CLs against Yamato.

Ah, so they gave Akizuki (lol at the name-derp) 19mm of HE pen. Sort of needed I would say. And I think those stats should be enough. By the way, very much in favour of those general guidelines. Well, I'm both for and against, as it would also give everyone a guideline to aim for in order to achieve overpens of the broadside if in the cruiser yourself, and I rather dislike the derp-armour aspect of going broadside to a battleship at short range. But it is better to know it, and have some firm values to work with (maybe to get a rework of the mechanic?), than just run around and guess.

Exactly. "Oh hi there Mr. Red-Ship-with-10km-air-detection. You wouldn't terribly mind if I just smoked up and selfspotted you with my plane, would you?" Well, we don't know for sure that she has smoke. That might be part of her difference from the silver ships. Hopefully Lesta has picked up on the potential issues of planes and smoke combined as well.

Admiral Hipper's turtleback deck is thick enough to not get overmatched by any non-Yamato battleship, yet they don't have any issues citadeling her. The angle isn't sharp enough to protect against that. Oh, there will, and are, certainly some bounces as the angle is sharp enough for some ricochets. But it isn't enough to protect like the battleships. Take note that unless really lucky you don't exactly get citadels against the German BBs at range either due to the turtleback being thick enough to offer enough resistance when it's angle isn't sharp enough for auto-bounces. The point is that 40mm of heavily angled armour will be more thickness against cruiser penetrations at anything but perfect angles. Cruiser guns are the only ones that are 'on the edge' so to speak. Yeah, won't help against powergunners like Moskva, DM (technically Baltimore too) or Zao, or when perfectly broadside. But against pretty much all the others it will probably help a fair bit.

Nope, I actually tested the 100mm guns in the game right now. Their HE can't touch the superstructure of either Yamato and Montana. That superstructure is 19mm. This meshes well with the common penetration values of HE, which puts the 100mm at 16mm. She will however not fare any worse against the high tier cruisers, where neither the 100mm nor even the 130mm can HE pen their hulls. However there is a difference once again against the high tier DDs, where their hulls (19mm) can stop the 100mm HE, but not the bigger shells. Especially the last bit will be interesting. Will they just give her HE better penetration? Or will she simply be utter crap when uptiered? I will look forward to finding this out when the time comes.

Not in English though. Because in that case we would have the same for the Danish and Norwegian ships. Confusion all around. Because the use of English, unsurprisingly the British take precedence in terms of 'Royal Navy' and 'His/Her Majesty's Ship'. The rest of us have to make do with 'Royal *nationality* Navy' and 'His/Her *nationality* Majesty's Ship'. Even the Commonwealth ships have to follow this rule. In our own languages our own traditions are of course primary. So a Swedish ship in Danish would be 'Hans Svenske Majesæts Skib', and vice versa of course.

Today... Sank Benson, Hatsuharu and finally Fletcher in my Mahan. Topped the team with 3.2k XP. Felt pretty good about beating first a Benson and then a Fletcher in a direct fight (barely any damage done to them by friendlies), neither of them were ambushed so to speak. In fact the Fletcher initiated the fight with me. Just noticed that the Fletcher topped his team...

Well, at least he is willing to consider the T5 woes at the moment. They are noting that it is less 'comfortable'.

This is some very interesting news, and what I find almost as interesting is the timing. Note how Akizuki is at T8. At T8 her 100mm HE can actually hurt ships, because at T9-10 superstructures are 19mm thick, and 100mm HE can't pen that (I have in fact tested that with the present 100mm guns). So she is T8 exactly for that, and to fight DDs. Fight DDs? Yes. Think about it. Ranked was just announced to be T8, and last time we had T8 Ranked, it was World of Bensons. With the present changes and now this, there might actually be not only a choice of class, but also a choice of DD. Akizuki fighting Bensons would be the perfect place for her 100mm guns. And in Ranked she would never face any ship that would be immune to her HE damage. Seems to me that WG has planned this to coincide with the new Ranked season. We know that they have been rather unhappy about the singular DD choices in the past. T7 changed that (if only to Premium DDs), but for other reasons that was a bad tier to use. Maybe now T8 will be diverse enough for a good spread of ships in Ranked?

Well this is some big news, if it is as that. That will make the Japanese into what the USN is now with their combo-line, and a sort of comparable line to the Soviet DDs. A total abandonment of the torpedoboat gamestyle. I wonder if this split will come high in the tree, or low. I mean I could sort of see a split at T7, with the previous IJN DDs still being ninja-boats. That would just be a huge shift in gameplay, almost like no where else in the game as it is. This is certainly something to keep an eye out for. Is this really what was being said or was google translate just being derpy? I mean it's not like the basic points are obscure or something, seems translate did a good job there. [EDIT] LOL... just noticed an entire thread on 4 pages discussing this...

It is good that it will be fixed. And the mission itself is certainly attractive, a major step in the right direction. I mean we don't need new ships and 12 point captains every time, but the rewards are meaningful, and that matters a lot to me. Make the little 5 premium DCP missions into Challenges instead (by the way, why are the Challenges empty so much? Is there nothing to challenge us with?). But then things fall apart due to some lack of foresight. Apparently nobody considered what would happen when people have Campbeltown already. It's certainly human to fail, I do so regularly. We all do. But the usual practice is to learn from the failures, and that is something that appears to be lacking here. It is far from the first time on a rather short list of special events/missions, where things have gone wrong like this and needs to be fixed after the damage is done. I know nobody can guarantee perfection next time, it would be foolish to demand such a statement. But my perception of these events/missions is quite tarnished by now, it would be nice to see it get a nice glossy shine again.

Seems hard to interpret it other than him being concerned about the high tier Japanese destroyers when the RN cruisers arrive.

Two posts up man... just two posts. Now I would assume doing it again would result in a different answer by now, but don't you find it a bit silly that the official stance can change like that when the actual case hasn't changed one bit. How did this happen? How did it happen when Campbeltown isn't exactly an unknown ship on the server. As pointed out, people got them at gamescom very recently. How can this pass everyone over? But the most important question is: How on Earth did things foul up once more when non-usual additions were added? I'm glad that we have gotten more meaningful missions, and I even voiced it in a stream over the weekend, but I can do without seeing that WG EU has once more gotten the shoelaces tied together.