Unintentional_submarine

I managed to do that with a Grem... I think I still have the screenshot lying around. But after investigation, it isn't something you can reliably do, nor is it something you can even hope for. It requires special circumstances to apply. A bit like Jingles managed to citadel a Wyoming with a Clemson. You can't aim for these spots, but they are there. In the case of the Myogi it is it's lower hull. The armour belt goes from 276mm to 19mm in one step, and that's just below the surface. 19mm is important as it allows all 120mm guns, or bigger, to penetrate with HE. If the Myogi keels over bit or you are so lucky that the waves expose it, you can citadel her with practically anything. But fishing for sub-waterline citadels are simply not worth it.

Certainly. I have done long range first salvo strikes with my Cleveland. It isn't impossible if the enemy cooperates. It isn't exactly easy either, but for me the main problem is the fact that the enemy ship is often outside the binoculars (yes you can zoom out, but I lose all sense of perspective then) at max range. I would suggest that people don't start thinking enemies that do perfect or near perfect first salvoes are cheating. That is actually quite possible to do without help. It has to be more special circumstances, like that case on the border.

Quite. 500 free XP are the best mission rewards by far. You have to get 10000 regular XP to get that under normal circumstances. But yeah, the actual missions are neither interesting, nor inspiring. And while I don't have the problem, I still think that missions should be failable so people don't get stuck with the same mission forever. It is enough 'punishment' to lose the missions for those days (though if it is only one, you only lose one update if you keep doing the other two).

What I find it does is that it makes the DDs reconsider their run. The damage inflicted is usually not that impressive, but it is enough to make the attacking DD either give up his attack, or launch too far out. I don't spec for the damage, I spec for the safety it offers. And it is awesome that the secondaries opens up and lets me know that an enemy is near. Effectively I can't be surprised by an enemy approaching my blind side (which can happen). But get close to a cruiser or battleship and those secondaries will really do some work. Too bad most of the guns fire AP. Heck I have even sunk a CV with the secondaries (and got the medal) while focusing on an enemy battleship with my main guns.

This is an excellent presentation. I have to repeat though, that the forward magazine has been 'kind' to me. I think pretty much all my mid range citadels on Tirpitz have come from it. And yes it is more than a couple, just not a common thing. Nor do I think it is worth it to fish for such an elusive target when you can get 20k regular pen hits on her by aiming for the center mass.

That is certainly a reason to hold back a bit. That's why I spent some of my free XP on getting the Colorado top hull and engines, and then saved the rest for when Izumo comes along. Hopefully I will have saved up enough to do much the same again.

Neither. But do get Colorado's top hull and engine upgrades. They are well worth it. If you feel like it, then Nagato can certainly also use the engine upgrade, and possibly the first hull upgrade (the second while a great help is less vital). Colorado just got a significant buff, and Nagato isn't bad at all.

Her citadel is incredibly hard to hit because of her armour layout. However it isn't impossible. The magazines under the forward turrets is somewhat easier to hit, and plunging fire from far out can citadel with a bit of luck. The thing about Tirptiz is that she is sort of a reverse of every other battleship. She gets harder and harder to citadel the closer you get and have a horizontal trajectory. As noted, while her citadel is very hard to get into, you can regular pen her easily. Due to having tapering armour, rather than all-or-nothing, she doesn't really let you overpenetrate her all that much. This allows for some pretty impressive regular penetration salvoes that can leave the more random citadel hits in the water for consistent damage.

You would think that. And that was what I expected. But seeing how anaemic the HE damage is for the German 150mm guns (seeing as the DD guns used the same ammo the battleship secondaries used they can't really differ), compared to even the Japanese 120mm, I have to wonder. If they do that poor damage, for a lower rate of fire, what is the point? And their torps as noted aren't good. They aren't crap, but they certainly aren't good either. So slow guns with poor damage and at best middling torps. Even a massive health pool isn't going to save them from the super gunboats that the Soviets line up for us. This is what I meant with me being concerned about German DDs, based on what we know about German guns in general (Tirpitz and cruisers).

The absurdity is that the German battleships will have some truly silly secondaries. Right now Tirpitz' 105mm and 150mm do the exact same damage per shot, but the 105mms have double the RoF (and less fire chance naturally). I even reported this as a bug, but now it is clear to me that it is intended since Königsberg and Nürnberg have the very same damage... In fact I half fear they will nerf the 105mm HE since it is so damn stupid. I don't even want to consider what this will do to the German DDs when they arrive. Poor torps (if the cruisers are anything to go on) and craptastic HE... What will be their strength? That the Soviet DDs won't do better? AP? I hope that won't be the case or they will not really have a place.

Actually it is not the Karlsruhe class, but rather the Königsberg (1915) class. Yeah I know... pretty silly. They could have gone for the Cöln class right after it and gotten essentially the same ship and avoided the stupid naming issue (of not conflicting with the more famous 1920s Königsberg class), or just used Emden (which would also help with the poor performance she appears to have). But it is what it is.

Yorck is the Entwurf I/10 (or 1/10) with some expected modernisation additions, like triple torp launchers (where the initial plans only expected doubles). It isn't a complete fantasy, since it is a rejected design. Hardly something unique to the Germans. It is however a case of 'oh there's something, let's run with it', more so than most, if not all of the others (save perhaps Zao?). I agree on Kolberg and Karlsruhe. Kolberg is pretty bad, but at least it outguns Tenryu (even if Tenryu basically does better in everything else). Karlsruhe is just worse than both Phoenix and Kuma in guns, in gun layout and finally in torps too. And for what? HP? Not really that much of an advantage. Armour? Nah. Speed? Hell no. AA? Nope. the only thing I can see her being clearly better at is a smaller citadel. Her engines are bound to be smaller, and thus somewhat harder to hit. Of course with the sushi paper armour, everyone will be able to hit it. In fact I'm pretty sure that HE will citadel her in most ships. Unless her engine spaces are 'spaced' from the hull, which would protect from HE penetrations. But I doubt it. She will be the German version of pre-buff Furutaka, but without her awesome alpha strike potential.

Those were three of my four mods (last one is the IJN flag)... Damn. Training Room was particularly great. The amount of silly tests I have done there. Even some valuable ones too (203mm penetration tests for instance). But honestly, it is well worth the price for me. I'm sure someone will soon make a new damage tracker (hopefully we will get an incoming hit/damage tracker too), and if not, well that's just too bad and I will live (heh, sail) without it.

And they will need to employ that to their greatest extent because of the weaksauce HE shells and fire chance. But I actually agree that the Königsberg and Nürnberg will both probably be incredibly fun ships. As long as no carriers comes knocking. And even with low HE they might still handle destroyers well enough with their faster turrets and high rate of fire. It's not that the Germans cruiser can't possible be great, they most certainly can be, but at present it is hard to see their function outside of cruiser killers. And honestly, there are plenty cruiser killers ingame right now. Heck some of the Soviet destroyers might actually be termed that with their powerful guns and semi-cruiser stats (though I guess destroyer killer would be a better term).

Oh I don't know. That only really becomes a thing at T9-10. Until then their AA is pretty much 20mm mainly. Yeah sure, a couple of longer range guns on Hipper, but that doesn't matter all that much. However I'm tihnking that perhaps they do in fact have much greater penetration. Zao, and DM (which isn't known by many), can both do utterly terrible damage to battleships with not only citadels, but I saw a Zao do 15k with a non-citadel AP strike at max range. That's awesome. If the Germans get that sort of capability at lower tiers they might still be worth a good deal. But the amount of tears that would produce....

Dude... You do know that SMS Blücher was an armoured cruiser right? Not a battlecruiser. Some even argue that she was the first heavy cruiser (uniform 8ish inch main armament). Meanwhile the Scharnhorst cruisers were armoured cruisers through and through. None of them were battlecruisers or battleships. Please read up before you try to educate him in a third post, because it hasn't gone terribly well until now. Names were reused, in fact most navies practised this.

Yup, that's my interpretation of them. Killing cruisers and running from everything else. Can't kill destroyers fast enough, or reliably enough (too low alpha strike), can't really whittle battleships down with their poor HE and low fire chance, and carriers will have their way with them (sort of). And their low tier cruisers look like crap honestly. T1-2 are ok, in fact Dresden might be better than Chester and equal to Chikuma. But Kolberg vs St. Louis and Tenryu? Doesn't look good. Karlsruhe vs Phoenix and Kuma? Looks even worse.

One of those could take on a similar tier USN and IJN DD and still win. I wonder what they thought would happen... The worst bit? Everyone joked about OP Russian/Soviet ships incoming, and now it is coming true.

Armoured cruisers like the (old) Scharnhorsts are very unlikely to make it in. WG has already had plenty chances to add such ships, but have avoided it. And I can sort of see why. Their main armament, speed and armour makes them a pain to place in the tree. A bit like the panzerschiffe. At the place of their power they are far too slow and lack things like AA, but put them lower and their armour will make them super-St. Louis. I'm sure it is possible to cram them in, but the effort is probably too much right now. Once the Brits are in, and WG can get work done on splitting the lines, we might get armoured cruisers in parallel with the current early light cruisers. At least that is how I see it. SMS Blücher (take note of the SMS here, all ye Admiral Hipper Blücher people) is much the same. Despite having a more favourable main armament (all turrets), she is still far too slow for T5 which is the only tier I can see her in. The Japanese battleships would run all over her (which isn't much of a surprise given that both Myogi and Kongo are battlecruisers), while the cruisers of both sides could easily avoid her. And she would probably not be that good against destroyers. She is one of my favourite ships, one I would love to see in, but as it is I fear she has no good role. Not unless given a massive speed boost. I forgot to mention my slight surprise at the 210mm guns for Yorck. I suppose WG went with the idea that the Germans might have liked a 205mm, but in the end would have gone with a proven design. I can accept that. Her slow turrets are 'realistic', Blücher had super slow train rate for her turrets. 3.5 degrees per second. But people should be used to such slow speed from Myoko by now. With the captain's skill and the module her speed will go from painful to just bad, while still maintaining a very respectable rate of fire. However, if you are a solid planner, then sticking with accuracy or some other module, you can probably get her to perform impressively. It is a fair weakness. However the utterly anaemic HE is another matter. 1700 damage from 150mm guns, 2300 from 203-210mm is just bad. They are somewhat better at AP than their opposition, but not massively so. So it looks like the German CAs are going to be long range snipers with pretty good accuracy and AP, and good RoF. Once the enemy angles just a little bit, they will suffer. And against battleships they will most likely not do too well, having too few guns and too low HE damage. Oh yeah, their fire chance is quite bad as well. 11% for Hindenburg vs 17% for Myoko three tiers down (and 19% for Zao, while the USN cruiser have uniformly 14% for the 203s). HE is really going to be a noob weapon for them as it is simply not good. The really poor HE makes me fear for the German destroyers. The entire reason for the step up to 150mm main guns on them was for the increase in firepower. Right now it looks like those destroyers will have a downgraded main armament compared to the 127mm guns, having about half the rate of fire but the same HE power per shell, and AP will naturally be incredibly incidental in destroyers (not that German 150mm AP is better than the competition it seems).

Maybe the interpretation of 'bad' should be more like 'evil'.

Well that's pretty interesting. Seems the Germans get good HP, long range and high RoF, and pay in every other regard more or less. This also explains why Tirpitz' 150mm secondaries are so anaemic in their damage... it isn't a typing error, it is fully intended. German 150mm guns will only do 1700 HE damage. German HE is simply going to be weak as hell. Tirpitz already has the lowest HE of any battleship I can think of, this is just a continuation. I just think it is silly that the secondary guns have the exact same damage as the 105mm per shell, but for much less rate of fire. It clearly makes you wonder what the Germans were even thinking putting them on their ships. I have to consider German secondaries to be much much worse than I did until now. Armour is going to be pretty weak for most of them. And torps simply don't get better than those on Tirpitz, so I was quite wrong in that regard. Germans torps are not going to be a serious danger. AA likewise. Heck they don't even get a catapult fighter until T6. And honestly, until T6 the line looks rather weak. Especially at T5. Also, Roon isn't a P class it seems but a Hindenburg precursor or something like that. Those two ships actually look rather nice in terms of power. Too bad we didn't see the dispersion on hte main guns. It will make or break the line as I see it.

Obviously. Could even have a 'flying' start at roughly 30kn+.

There used to be such things back in CBT. There was barely a week that didn't have some form of discount.

Ok, that was barely readable... white on grey background, or even grey on grey. However, my question was in relation to Sharana mentioning it before the notes were up anywhere. At which point we didn't really have much to go on. So I just wanted to know when and where they said the functionality would come. And now it will, soon in fact. In any case, thank you for posting it up. [EDIT] much better now.

Would it actually be catapultable? Heh, I suppose half of the catapult fighters are not capable of it, and the other half are at best paper project and at worst fiction (like that XP-40Q in the Baltimore and DM, which was a 'normal' landing gear plane). In any case, there is hardly any need to single out the German catapult fighter, at least it has some paper design idea behind it, even if the designation is wrong. It's better to simply accept that this part of the game will most likely stay utterly fictional.