Deckeru_Maiku

you two google "kerosene melting steel" or "jet fuel melting steel" look what results show up understand the 9/11 reference slap hand to face although... It's actually a good reference. On 9/11 it took the fire quite a while to weaken the interior structure of the towers to tumble down. And if the towers had been armoured, the planes would have exploded outside and caused only marginal damage...

Naja, wenn da über ein komplettes Spiel hinweg ein Schiff an seiner Startposition vor sich hindümpelt kann es schonmal passieren, daß ich "versehentlich" im gemeinsamen Chat feststelle, daß auf Position XY ja jemand abwesend zu sein scheint. Zumindest, wenn es nicht bedeutet, daß meine Seite das Match verlieren würde weil der Kahn dann versenkt wird...

hmmm... mit der Independence im Basis Setup je 1 Fighter/DB/TB hab ich in 19 Kämpfen 157 Flieger abgeschossen und 830k Schaden gemacht. Empfand ich eher schon als mäßig...

Played my Hatsuharu today and five times in a row I end up on HotSpot... After one battle on north I swap to my Pensacola... HotSpot again - another two times... Earlier I had played my US and IJN CVs. Out of six battles I ended up four times on HotSpot... It's not that I do not like that map. It's just getting it stuffed into my throat so often, that gets me a bit miffed... Oh.. after the Pensacola I swapped to my New York... guess what: HotSpot...

Dear Santa, for my next christmas I ask for nothing but some opponents who are as bad as those shown in that video.

Also ich hab mit meinen Cvs bisher noch keinen solchen Treffer erzielt und auch noch keinen kassiert mit meinen anderen Schiffen... ABER (!) nachdem ich mal versenkt worden war, konnte ich so einen schönen Treffer als Zuschauer erleben. Da schaffte es ein BB Fahrer auch einer Salve nahezu komplett auszuweichen. Bis ein Aal dann direkt unter den vorderen Geschütztürmen einschlug. Einer! Von 100% auf 0% mit einem einzigen Boom! Passiert aber wohl alle 1000 Gefechte mal

Ich wage mal zu behaupten, daß die wenigsten CV Fahrer sich eine permanente Begleitung wünschen, die das ganze Gefecht über an ihrer Seite klebt. Es wäre aber gelegentlich schon nett, wenn eine Seite der Front von gegnerischen Schiffen durchbrochen wird ein wenig Unterstützung bei der Flucht zu bekommen... Wenn's nur ein einzelnes BB ist werden die meisten CV Fahrer wohl eher keine Hilfe brauchen. Die dicken Brummer sind ja eher langsam und man kann sie mit den Bombern ja auch noch gut beschäftigt halten, während man sich davonmacht. Aber CA/CLs und DDs sind halt lästige flinke Schaben, gern auch noch mit Torpedos, die mit Bombern nur schlecht von der Jagd abzubringen sind. Aber in vielen Begegnungen hat halt CV Schutz die gleiche Priorität wie der Schutz der eigenen Cap Zone... alles rushed lieber nach vorne (mehr oder minder weit vom Kartenrand entfernt..) und denkt sich "wird sich schon ein Trottel finden, der hinten bleibt... ich will Dämmätsch, Dämmätsch, Dämmätsch..." Und solange es in der Exp Wertung halt auch überwiegend auf den erzielten Schaden ankommt, wird sich da auch so schnell nichts ändern.

There is a way implemented in game already which makes bombers quite dangerous - combined strikes... First you send in your Dive Bombers and set the target aflame. As soon as he presses the R button to douse the flames, send in the Torpedo Bombers and punch a hole in his ship. Or the other way round... I've got a completely different problem with CVs: they are the only shipclass with limited ammunition. Once all your planes are shot down you're useless. And unless you are extremely carefull and/or lucky you will lose quite a few planes to AA fire when attacking or just flying to your target. Add to that the disparity between CV tiers and the planes' combat effectiveness and the tendency of the MM to often put up a single CV against two opposing CVs and playing a CV becomes a very tedious task. So some more planes in reserve would IMHO help a bit...

Small, but important change... Can't count how often I drove my Nagato into the thickest part of the battle, just to see the ships that just a second ago were following me shrinking away like little mincey balls... You know the kind of balls I mean? Those described by Bullet Tooth Tony in Snatch:

Und ich würde gern mal auf der Seite der Bots im PvBot spielen - die sind viel organisierter als die menschlichen Spieler.

Im Gegensatz zu den recht ruhigen Spielen in meinem CA/CL oder BB bekämpfe ich mit meinem CV meist mehrere Ziele gleichzeitig. Die Fighter scouten oder gehen gegen gegnerische Bomber vor und meine Bomber müssen sich durch die Flakbereiche diverser gegnerischer Schiffe zu ihren Zielen durchlavieren... Ansonsten brauche ich als CV auch keinen Schutz vor einem Schlachtschiff - da reichen mir meine Torpedobomber oder die Geschwindigkeit meines CV. Aber gegen Kreuzer wird es schon enger... Bomber bringen da wenig. Und DDs sind der Alptraum... Ergo braucht es kein lahmes Dickschiff um einen CV zu schützen, sondern eher 'nen Kreuzer... und die sind meist sogar schnell genug um zu Hilfe zu kommen, wenn sie denn wollten.

Leicht gesagt, wenn links und rechts die eigenen Schiffe mehr oder minder erfolgreich vorrücken, aber der Gegner mit nem DD und BB in der Mitte durchbricht. Den einzigen CA der dort versuchte zu verteidigen haben die beiden mal nebenher vernascht. Ob man da nun als CV links, rechts oder in der Mitte steht - man ist Opfer... Und zu dem Witzbold der sich fragt, ob ein CV für die Schlacht denn so wichtig ist, daß man ihn beschützen sollte: Ich fahre mit einem IJN mit 1 Fighter, und je zwei Bomber-/Torpedobomber Squads. Bis die DDs auch nur 10 klicks gefahren sind, sind meine Flieger in der Luft und scouten. Da meine Fighter im Kampf gegen die meisten anderen Fighter nicht viel reißen werden sie während des Gefachts zum Scouten und zur Abwehr von Torpedobombern genutzt - die meistens ja die "Großkampfschiffe" angreifen. Und meine Torpedobomber sorgen dafür, daß die gegnerischen Dickschiffe nicht gemütlich über die Karte dümpeln und in aller Ruhe Longrange Sniping betreiben können. Und wenn dann tatsächlich mal ein DD durchbricht und anfängt die eigene Base zu cappen und mal wieder alle eigenen Schiffe sonstwo rumdümpeln? Dann können meine Bomber zumindest das Cappen ein wenig herauszögern oder - bei guten Treffern - sogar verhindern. Alles nicht nützlich? Naja, vielleicht sollten die CV Fahrer das alles einfach mal sein lassen...

Der einzige Punkt, den ich - mit der kleinen Änderung - unterschreiben würde. Ansonsten sind Gamer grundsätzlich einfach mal alle Whiner. Besonders wenn sie verlieren.

I didn't claim it to be a very realistic action simulation.

I'm quite bad at shooting with about any type of gun on any type of ship. But still I managed to raise the hit percentage of my BBs main guns from about 15% to 20 to 25% Main reason is - I guess - that I use a modded crosshairs version (http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/12696-mod-031-crosshair-green-lemon-black-lines-otm-update-15052015/ - sorry, german thread; I use the version shown under the fourth spoiler, the one with the spidernet structure...) Another reason - I presume - is that I do not fire salvos, but each turret seperately, one after the other, correcting my aim for each shot when I see the target "wiggle" to evade. As soon as I manage to learn how to hit ships on a course going diagonally to mine I guess the hit percentage will go up some more..

So... kerosene CAN melt steelbars?

Right now I'm grinding my way through US BB, US CA/CL and IJN CV - and every time I can't take the grind any longer, I switch to my Hatsuharu and have some fun. Sometimes I'm lucky and manage to stick an eel or two into some enemy ship(s) and sometimes I'm not so lucky. Sometimes I get sunk, sometimes I don't. Yes, it can be tough to weave through enemy ships and scout planes to get to about 7 klicks of your intended target, just to see both loads being evaded or missing the target, because it decided to change it's course. But then there are these special moments, when you manage to put some eels into a BB who's tunnelvisioned fighting another ship... or you fire a load into the smoke an opposing DD set up and get the message that You hit a BB and a bit later the "Target sunk" message. Or you manage to sneak up to an enemy CV that hasn't seen you, but is running away from one of the CAs on your side, trying so hard to run away that he missed the full two spreads you stick into him. Compared to all the effort you have to take to get a good torpedo spread against a BB or CV with the torpedo planes from my CV playing a DD is relaxing (for me...)

Easy explanation for our different opinions: You seem to come from action games - I come from simulations. WoW is IMHO supposed to be an Action Simulation, so both playstyles have to be balanced. And there would be no total immunity. Smaller calibers might still cause damage with critical hits. Or after the armour has been penetrated - leaving holes to shoot through - by hits done with high caliber guns. And if destroying superstructure would have an influx on the fighting abilities of a ship, there wouldn't even be a complete immunity. Action Games and Simulation Games again. In Simulation Games reality and game not only mix well, but HAVE to be as close as possible. And of course should there be a "always load X ammo" choice. If you only got a BB caliber gun and your opponent is armoured, don't shoot with AP at his armour, because you can't penetrate it. Use explosive ammo and aim for the parts of him, that can be damaged by it. There also might be leaking hydraulics oil and other things... but it would be the choice of the game designers what to implement.

Dude, what do you expect from players that - on normal maps - start on the left and turn to the right while others start on the right and decide to go to the left... "Oh, I'm on the right map side? Naah.. left side looks so much more inviting..."

I have no problem with some ships not being able to destroy some other ships. Just stick to those ships you CAN destroy or use HE to reduce the superstructure of other ships to small burning bits... Reducing superstructure could lead to loss of crew, reducing damage reduction abilities, rudder control, communication, spotting and whatever else the designers can think of Although Hollywood tries to teach us differently, not everything flammable is automatically ignited when an explosion occurs. Some stuff starts burning faster, other materials don't. So hit locations could have different percentages to be set aflame or could modify the ammunitions basic chance to start a fire. The primary guns usually are armoured, so it should take AP to destroy them permanently, but it should also be possible that they are damaged by lower caliber critical hits - the "lucky shot" - and they should suffer if the whole superstructure around them is burning for a prolonged time, up to a chance to have them blow up due to the heat around them.

You mean instead of those "Oooops, where did THAT torpedo come from" moments some people have now? Although so many DD drivers whine about BB turnrates being too small I still manage to get in a 7+ klicks shot once in a while.

Some things some people here might agree upon: guns of a certain caliber should be able to penetrate armour up to a certain thickness. The thicker the armour, the higher the needed caliber to penetrate HE ammo of a low caliber should have only a small chance to penetrate armour which is intended to not be penetrated by HE ammo not all parts of a ship are flammable. Especially not all of the superstructure of a ship. Some parts are, and some of these might have a large influence on the fighting abilities of a ship if damaged, like secondary gunpods, AA stations and suchlike. even with most of it's superstructure destroyed most armoured shiptypes will still be able to keep afloat. To sink them, their hull has to be penetrated below the waterline or the hull has to be ruptured by internal explosions of vital parts, which usually are encased in the citadel. if a ship's armour has been penetrated often enough, even HE missiles can deal internal damage and cause internal fires As it is now a DD can sink a BB by using it's peashooter guns often enough (and the BB's captain being asleep/braindead/afk/whatever) against the BB's superstructure. Which is highly unrealistic and - at least for me - a gamebreaker. A solution might be to give the ships distinguished zones with their own hitpoint and armour values. With this ships with guns of a lower caliber would be able to reduce another ship's superstructure and the appropriate hitpoints, but they would not be able to damage those parts, which are secured by armour they can't penetrate - unless that armour has been reduced by some higher caliber guns before. With this solution, the HE spam would become useless, apart from reducing the opponents secondary weapons and AA and - if crew would be implemented - the ability to repair, as crewmembers are killed by the hits on the superstructure.

Too bad I just could give You one +1 for that... But, OP, you could always use headology - like Esme Weatherwax, witch, also living on the discworld like Ghengiz Cohen - against an enemy coming at you with superior numbers and tiers. The good old "Ah, at least you've got more ships, so it will be a fair fight" in public chat is a good start. Or "I like what I see - more opponents means more targets for me"... or anything like that

Maybe some reality might be good here? How were torpedoes spotted? By guys watching the sea around their ships with or without binoculars. So what influences the chances of spotting a torpedo (or a whole bunch of torpedoes)? the number of people looking for them. More people watching makes better chances to see them the experience of the spotters. If you know what you have to look for, you have a better chance to see if it's a torpedo or just a wave the elevation of the spotter. The higher above sea level the spotter is positioned, the further he can watch and detect a torpedo further away from his ship sea conditions and lighting. Rough sea or darkness will keep torpedoes from being detected so easily BBs usually have higher towers than CAs/CLs, and as CAs/CLs have higher spotting positions than DDs. BBs have more spotters (or sailors available for spotting) than CAs/CLs and these have more possible spotters than DDs. So BBs should have a better chance to spot incoming torpedoes than CAs/CLs and these should have a better chance than DDs. BUT (!) there's always the "Line of Communication". In WWII there weren't no easy ways to inform the people responsible for changing the course of a ship. So although there are more spotters available on a BB the distance between the spotter and the captain who has to order the change of course is quite long. On a CA/CL it might be a tad shorter. And it's shortest on a DD. So even if a torpedo is spotted earlier on a BB it takes more time to react on the spotted torpedo than on a DD, which might spot the torpedo later, but can react faster. Next thing on the list: Scout Planes (or any planes, as in the game all planes can spot..) Scout planes should have quite a good chance to spot torpedoes. It's their job to look for stuff in the water, like DDs, submarines and torpedoes. But they have to relay the information to the ships and get into the "Line of Communication" doing this. Scout plane -> radio room -> bridge -> guy at the wheel... Fighter planes shouldn't be very good at spotting torpedoes, because they usually fly way higher than scout planes and their job is it to search the sky for opposing planes. Bombers and torpedo bombers usually fly quite high, too and in reality often even had problems spotting their targets - yes, even if that target was a BB - so their chances to spot a torpedo would be really low... And how realistic is it, that once ONE ship/plane spots a torpedo ALL ships of the same side know where that torpedo is? Not quite, right? So, how to implement reality into the game? no automatic torpedo spotting, but a chance to spot the torpedo depending on ship type. Best chance for spotting at long range = BB. The closer the torpedo gets, the better the chances get for all ships. Smoke (and if implemented weather and lighting conditions) should reduce this chance. Torpedoes should only be visible to units that spotted them. Or, if the spotter is a scout plane, to the ship the plane belongs to. No open frequency radioing.. to recreate the "Line of Communication" the smaller ships get a more detailed message if torpedoes are detected. A BB gets a warning "Torpedoes incoming", Cruisers also get the direction the torpedo is coming from "Torpedoes incoming aft/stern/starboard/port" and DDs even get an optical hint.. some flashing sign on the side where the torpedo comes from maybe? So BB players would have to look for the torpedoes on their own, while others get a hint WHERE to look. Not sure of this could be implemented, though..