EsaTuunanen

Cruiser APs can better penetrate some water, but that also means better penetration of armor of other cruisers. This is what Kirov used to be: Hit just above water line and watch citadel hit count keep rolling. Now trying to aim there basically gives shells either hitting water or overpens of upper decks. While Omaha still has this easy to hit citadel: I would say more than a bit considering how hard even stationary (in Training Room) Kirov is to citadel. Sure because of "half thickness flak jacket" armor RNGesus blessed correct spot hitting 130mm APs citadels it from over 10km... But good luck for that when consistently hitting citadel is harder even from 5km. Kinda feels they overballasted Kirov deep into water... Not doing enough damage to make enemy understand they lost or what?

Well, USN DD shell trajectory won't become any better so if you would like to hit something from longer range Soviet DD line with semi-cruiser 130mm gun might be better choise. Though in first time at tier 5 that gun turns Furutaka fast (Minekaze has faster turning guns) and starting from Tier 7 Kiev Soviet DDs have semi-cruiser level stealth.

Fittingly for its even thinner armor than in post-WW1 scout (/destroyer leader) cruisers Kirov was easiest Tier 5 cruiser to citadel for destroyer. But couple patches ago it was buffed notably and now citadelling it is hard. Feels like it has now almost Cleveland like citadel making it depend on RNGesus to get even single citadel hit. Omaha (despite of 50% thicker belt armor) is way more easier to citadel consistently and with multiple citadel hits per salvo.

At 10km range angle tolerance for penetration would be small. But at point blank ranges stopping 130mm AP would probably need auto-bounce mechanic triggering amount of angling. This Kuma with its better than Yubari armor is more than "slightly" angled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1parmmlfw53ql0k/Kuma%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0 But definitely wouldn't count on having enough side visible for penning belt armor. Penetrating both side ahead of citadel and citadel's front bulkhead would be probably also possible... Though also bow can auto-bounce and correct hitting point would be "smallish" so another bad idea to count on that. So I would do it from ambush/using offensive smoke unless Yubari were looking elsewhere/distracted.

At closer ranges 130mm AP bites real nicely into lighter armored cruisers... In fact when missing citadel overpens become problem easily. Like in this previous salvo had two citadel and its armor missing shells overpen despite of "slight" angling. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1parmmlfw53ql0k/Kuma%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0

Nothing weird in situation. Building having one internet connection and NAT used to share one public IP for all the apartments.

1st case: Torping from safe zone to brawling zone. 2nd case: Basically "third" line torping instead of just second line torping! Because he clearly has more balls than you: Also Königsberg has those things called torps for nice high damage punch. While going bow in he gives smallest target to hit with combined closure rate not giving BB many retries before eating those metal fishes. Was thinking of same...

But isn't that just adding realism considering situation in Randoms?

That torpedo hit from rear in third match was from stealth torpedo. There wasn't any warning indicator for that fish.

There's no guarantee they know their head from their arse because of not even slightest checking of player skill. Two skilled IJN strike carrier players have such extreme combined strike power that at matches without actually good AA cruisers or semi competent opposing carrier they can steamroll match unless rest of their team is fully brainless. And tight cluster f*ck of ships just gives more chances for torpedoes to hit something. Part of this CV balancing problem is precisely player skills. Good CV player does heavy damage unless enemy team plays well and/or has strong AA ships while strafing opposing carrier's planes. Bad CV player feeds his planes to that only good AA ship in enemy team while weaker AA ships are exposed in other places. Two days ago had enemy Hosho and Zuiho basically steamroll half of my team with total fail bo(a)t CVs unable to shoot down more than couple planes while losing their planes. And while decent players could avoid some torpedoes from USN CVs, against cross torping there just isn't any counter.

Job of cruiser varies depending on Tier, nation and map situation. At low tiers they're relatively stronger compared to BBs, whose gun accuracy basically improves with tiers. While AA defense of cruisers improves from miserable/non-existing of low tiers to very strong in some cruisers. While at high tiers some of them are quite stealthy most of them aren't stealthy enough to go around alone in early stages of the match. Preferably they should follow as group behind screening/capping destroyers with battleships following closely. Of course often that doesn't happen and Balless Bo(a)t battlesheeps go to hide rear at their max range leaving cruisers to get focused by enemy. In those cases cruisers have to use their maneuverability to avoid being easy kills for enemy while slowly reatreating possibly using islands as momentary covers. While weaponry varies all cruisers have faster reaload and smaller dispersion than battleships so all closer destroyers should be prioritity targets. Of course if that destroyer is farther and there's enemy cruiser closer and especially if it's trying to do torpedo attack that cruiser becomes priority target. Also cruisers should prioritize low hp enemies to decrease number of firing guns in enemy team as fast as possible. Instead of wasting time to finish low HP targets battleships are more effective for hitting high hp enemies.

Lots of maps have two basic routes into enemy base, so in those team should split into two groups. With smaller group probing other flank and if facing superior enemy changing into stalling/survival mode, instead of charging the enemy to avoid being easy kills. During that time flank with most of the team should push agressively when facing inferior enemy force: 1. To take those enemies out fast 2. To push into enemy cap, forcing some enemies on other flank to turn back or 3. With at least rearmost ships turning back to defend own base if enemy keeps pushing on other flank. Preferably there should be one destroyer in both groups to spot enemy destroyers trying to torpedo heaviers ships. In fact destroyers should always do some spreading around the map to spot where enemies are going. If basically whole team lemming trains agressive steamrolling of met enemies is important. Otherwise destroyers and fast cruisers of well playing enemy team can rush into your rear to take cap or sink carriers. (Langley and Bogue can't even run being slower than USN BBs) But often that lemming train turns to cluster f*ck uselessly group humping map edge/corner surrendering most of the map to enemy team's control. Of course with also showing broadside for enemy team to be easy target and exposed to heavy damage from AP hits. (well playing enemy team gets that any way by possibly surrounding that lemming train) Team controlling bigger part of the map has always more options for example to regroup or slowly retreat... Giving also destroyers more chances to use torpedoes effectively: Torps just don't work against away running enemies. While against attacking enemy even USN DDs can do stealth torpedo launches because target moving into torpedo range during its travel time. Three cap point domination differs some, but basic rules are same. Stronger than enemy groups pushing to take out enemies fast and "capture territory" while stronger enemy facing group harasses enemy while retreating. Also that stronger than enemy groups should push into place where they can fast turn to attck/support other cap. Going to map edge/corner behind caps is always bad thing. Even for fast destroyers because of lacking long range hitting power.

Since its buff couple patches ago hitting Kirov's citadel has been basically that. Before that it was approriately for weakest protection easiest Tier 5 cruiser to citadel for destroyer by hitting just at/near waterline. Now most of the shells just hit water or then go too high usually overpenning upper decks.

And you can consider yourself lucky if you get one or two normal penetrations instead of all misses/superstructure overpens if RNGesus doesn't love you. If anything shell trajectory gets more horizontal at close range and you need to hit lower near waterline to avoid overshooting citadel. (at longer ranges impact trajectory is falling)

Up to something like Tier 6 or 7 you should be able to reasonably avoid worst stock ships by playing enough in your existing ships to get free XP for the most important ship upgrades. After having researched new ship you can easily check what things hull upgrades add/change to decide if you want them. For example St. Louis and Phoenix get lot more guns/firepower from hull upgrades. Also by searching ship class forums you could find how important upgrades are for particular ship. That way you also have more time to learn to be better before going against harder opposition making playing overal more enjoyable. Though don't assume that players with highish tier ships automatically have higher IQ than their shoe size. (in inches)

If something you're newbie, though actually more like half way to getting good because of having figured quite well basics of ammunition choosing before this thread. Noob is someone who keeps failing miserably time after time because of not having learned anything, not learning anything and being unwilling to learn anything.

That's the correct ending.

One more detonation from high hp. So from six last detonations five have been from full/high hp instead of after taking lot pounding.

Active crew skills work similarly in all ships and regardless do you have standard account or have premium account. Difference from standard tech tree ships to premium ships is that in premium ships you don't need captain retraining for skills to be active. If you can get decent credits to afford them paying 22k credits for at least some premium consumables can be very helpfull. Like shorter repair/damage control cool down in battleships. (USN BBs are slow) If you learn to survive enough in destroyer faster smoke machine battery swap and one extra smoke can also help lot to do more during the match. Gunboat destroyers can use smoke offensively to fire at enemies detected by team mates without getting detected. (especially nice against citadel showing cruisers) While having fast turning machine guns and now stealth torping capability Tier 7 Mahan might be speed bump. It has bad stealth and is slower than some cruisers so requires more planning ahead and situational awareness to survive.

At least reading and watching some videos how other ships work would be good, because knowing enemies is half the battle like said by certain Chinese general. Because of having flimsiest citadel protection of Tier 5 cruisers Kirov used to be very vulnerable even against DDs. But can't have Soviet cruiser being weaker than others so couple patches ago WG gave Kirov buff and now it has hardest to hit citadel of Tier 5 cruisers. So until having some better armored cruiser showing broadside to gunboat destroyer isn't wise. Ease of hitting targets from long range depends on gun's characteristics. If shells are fast with flat trajectory smaller lead is enough making it easier and also gives enemy less times to maneuver. With maller RNG guns with decent fire rate hitting battleship sized targets should be easy up to 10s shell flight time. Direction of target's travel also affects to what kind accuracy you can expect to achieve: Broadside showing target is always easiest to hit. Fast firing cruisers are good ships to practise gunnery, because they can survive some hits unlike destroyers, which are very forgiving for getting hit. Slow reloading Battleship guns have highest shell dispersion so even if you got lead correct RNG can make shells miss. Would be nice if WG actually clearly stated how those sight scales work.

Angled cruiser would be also HE target. But especially if BB is already burning and showing broadside against some of them AP would be very viable choise. While some BBs have tapered armor continuing outside citadel area USN BBs tend to have quite light armor outside main armor belt. For example New Mexico is very good for that. Even DD caliber AP does decent damage per salvo when hitting upper decks.

And players with 10k class damage in Tier 7 BBs and cruisers know better?

Basically DD class fast rudder shift.

With that very flimsy armor Kirov was easy to citadel up to 10km and from couple km closer it was easy to get consistently citadel hits by hitting just above waterline: Now it's hard to get citadel hits consistently even from 5km. Feels like citadel is now almost Cleveland like, buff was that major. While citadel missing 130mm APs overpen... just like with Cleveland. While Königsberg has flimsier armor than Omaha and can be citadelled from farther it needs hitting more precisely making consistent citadel hits harder. Against side showing Omaha you just aim to hit near waterline and watch Omaha "melt" away:

How about 5k match player with 8k average damage? 8k in Colorado and 10k in Nagato... 12k in Budyonny, 13k in Shchors... 11k in Myoko, Yorck etc... Sub 9k in Kiev...