EsaTuunanen

It might be the most forgiving for gunnery with great HE spamming ability, but protection wise Omaha has all the worst parts: Big floating citadel with easily damaged and flammable tinfoil parts attached to front, rear and top of it. So even DD caliber HEs do lots of damage to it unless hitting at belt armor. While citadel is just huge and hard to miss when shooting AP into broadside. In comparison Furutaka is like some BB with most of the hull and deck proof against DD caliber HEs, with smaller and better protected citadel and even more so in C hull. Kirov is vulnerable to any HEs, and while it has tinfoil armor its citadel got basically submerged couple months ago making it very hard to hit consistently... with rest of the ship being very easily overpenned. Königsberg is also vulnerable to any HEs, but its citadel is harder to hit. Plus the usual overpens of other parts. So if played badly Omaha is the easiest to take apart Tier 5 cruiser for good gunboat DD player.

Just keep little distance, wiggle that DD's stern and average player has troubles inh hitting with those dual purpose mortars: Also Atlanta lacks speed for any kind pursuit of all except slowest DDs.

Minekaze is lot faster, in fact fastest ship until Tier 7. Unlike other Tier 5 destroyers Minekaze has good speed advantage over any cruiser attempting to corner it. While some cruisers are actually faster than Isokaze.

So how big part of those detonations happened in destroyers? Probably very high. And then deduct used amount of flags from number of DD games and you'll suddenly have quite higher percentage. Especially if compared to times of getting sinked. Unless you can't survive in destroyer and always get gunned down by half of enemy team in early match... With that detonation most of the time happening at first few hits instead of after receiving heavy damage. Instead of some special extra high chance having lowered detonation chance for first hits/when at high HP would be better for game. It would encourage people to attack instead of hiding in rear afraid of getting paint scratched, because RNGesus can decide that first scratch detonates you. Out of some couple hundred destroyers lost in World Wars actually very few suffered catastrophic magazine detonation. And even less often without receiving extensive damage and basically being already ready to sink. Same for other ship classes.

With the latest match maker changes Tier V gets often rather bad tier distribution in matches being bottom tier below Tier VIs or up to Tier VII so Tier IV would be easier for learning. There just isn't time for practising gunnery when meeting Tier VIIs and more Tier VIs. Again Tier IV and V IJN destroyers are actually one the least affected by being bottom tier, because of being very stealthy and having quite fast reloading very high speed torps. Torps require getting to positions where you can fire torps preferably toward side of the ships instead firing them from ahead of ship. Though if target uses "WASD hacks" aka keep changing direction and speed it can be very hard to get hits without banzai charging close to sure hitting distance or using island as cover for stealth launching them closer. Guns are in that aspect more reliable weapons... I wouldn't call it interesting to see people throw a victory away by doing completely illogical things and basically playing for the enemy team.

I don't think I've yet suffered detonation in consecutive matches... Though maybe because of trying to remember to sacrifice one or two anti-detonation flags to satisfy bloodthirst of RNGesus after one detonation.

Basic rule for using AP is simple: When angle is straight enough to not bounce and it can penetrate armor of the target without always over penetrating target. Though because of slow reload BBs should always use AP except when there's only destroyers and/or carriers left. And even carriers make good targets for citadel hits from BBs... HE never bounces or overpens being more consistent in doing damage when it can penetrate hitting spot along with chance of fire. But if hitting spot is too thick for HE to penetrate (over 1/6 of caliber) there's no direct damage and very little fire chance. And just normal AP penatration does more direct damage than HE hit from same gun. But ideally you want to hit and penetrate that most armored part of the ship called citadel for doing full damage of the shell. That part reaches from front turret to rear turret (with engine room in middle) and mostly under water so you need to hit close to waterline. Without good aiming skills that might feel impossible to hit, but once getting there those hits are devastating... Even against bigger ships: Besides AP's penetrating power at that range biggest factor is angle of target, because angled armor has bigger effective thickness needing higher penetration power. And unless shell's diameter is big enough (~14 times over armor thickness) there's certain angle after which AP is auto-bounced no matter how much penetration ability it would have. With bouncing shells doing even less damage (zero) than overpens, when shooting target whose armor isn't enough to slow down shell/target is too "thin" for shell's delayed fuze. Destroyers are basically completely made out of tinfoil so all APs overpen them from side angle. And hull and bow of angled destroyer can again auto-bounce smaller APs resulting zero damage hits. For 203mm guns DD's angling isn't anymore problem with shell overmatching plating and destroyer being long enough for AP shell to detonate inside it. So if having no other targets to chase HE should be the ammunition choise against them. But for anything slower reloading first shooting what is loaded is best because of chance for some instant damage instead of first chance for damage after reload. (double tap shell choise key to force reload) Mostly same tier cruiser showing its side is valid target for APs unless shell's trajectory becomes dropping down. Though at tier 3 Tenryo has thin armor being easily penetrated, while St. Louis has rather heavy armor. On the other hand St. Louis has quite a lots of area with some kind armor, preventing citadel missing APs overpenning so easily. Unlike lightly built cruisers which are easy to overpen with citadel missing APs. Like in this half of the previous salvo missing citadel and overpenning for 2x250 hp damage vs. 2x2500 for citadel hits: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1parmmlfw53ql0k/Kuma%20Citadelled.jpg?dl=0 (effective armor thickness at that angle is increased lot, but range is so short that APs just punch through until auto-bounce angle) While battleships have thick enough citadel armor to make mostly only other battleships capable to citadelling them that doesn't mean smaller AP being useless against them. Because outside that citadel area their armor is mediocre or very light. When shell trajectory is still flattish even destroyer APs can do more damage than HEs. Starting from mid tiers BB's actually have most of the ship made from hick enough plating to be proof against DD caliber HEs with only superstructure being soft enough. And naturally because of cruisers having stronger guns than DDs their AP works better against side showing unangled BB. Just check detailed report screen of this for detailed damage done to that New Mexico: http://wowreplays.com/Replay/13373 So when being experienced enough to know what to do and where to aim properly used AP can boost damage output notably.

Slow and shorter ranged USN BBs can indeed be left without much to do, if enemy goes to other part of the map... But most of their seeming uselessness comes from Balless Bo(a)t players afraid of shiny paint getting scratched. BBs have healing ability to restore hitpoints, which they have more than any other class. And armor can completely negate lots of HE shell hits and when ship is properly angled only BB caliber APs have chance for doing more notable damage, with smaller APs just bouncing and stopping to armor. So battleship should always follow destroyers and cruisers to important map controlling points with bow roughly towards enemy to fastest close into effective range. And when there's enemy in range instead of turning to show whole side and being easy target to hit and vulnerable to AP shell penetrations BB should turn only enough to fire rear turrets at some enemy. But because of game not demanding any learning to proceed (or sign of higher than room temperature IQ) we have all those players with not a clue about how to play them. Instead of heading toward trategic points of the map they turn toward edge even away from enemy.And not only they keep enemies outside their best gunnery range broadside sailing ship is easiest to hit for enemy and armor has least chances to stop incoming shells. When you combine that to usual lack of gunnery skills they often seem useless drag for team. Of course in some maps (New Dawn, Fault Line) there's such center area that no BB or cruiser should go there because of getting focused by enemy team and sinked in minute or two. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't push toward action otherwise.

25mm thick deck and side BBs are really annoying targets for DD caliber HEs. Only superstructure is soft enough for them and often half of the (hitting) shells get absorpted by AA guns. Hence if some New Mexico shows side it's actually better to spam AP at flattish trajectory ranges, like: 32 HE hits: 1,7k damage (+5k fire) 46 APs: 14½k damage.

Nikolai having some armor in almost every place and no real superstructure makes it really hard target for DD caliber HEs: HE penetrates armor of about 1/6 of its caliber and non-penetrating HE has very little fire chance. So if having broadside at flat trajectory range firing AP to upper decks of bow might be actually best way to do damage. http://gamemodels3d.com/worldofwarships/vehicles/prsb001 New Mexico with its 25mm thick side and deck is also "better served" with AP when it shows broadside at flat trajectory range. (that 25mm thickness is the one which makes also Cleveland's 152mm HEs impotent) So when having opportunity remember to spam the most effective ammunition: 32 HE hits: 1,7k direct damage (1 fire 5k) 46 APs: 14½k damage http://wowreplays.com/Replay/13373 creamgravy, on 11 August 2016 - 05:01 PM, said: Gremyashchy can do everything Actually buffing of tier 5 cruisers has been taking some fun away. Now there's really only that poor old Omaha to punish with citadel hits when cruisers fail in armor angling.

You probably haven't fully researched hull upgrades of Myogi. Tech tree shows only the research cost of that particular ship itself, not how much research you have left on previous ship needed for researching new ship.

How about at least having detonation happen randomly when taking hits instead of first hits having some detonation chance bonus, like it works currently at least for destroyers? In receiving and originating ends of trajectory. Sure there's chance that dice would give number 6 couple times in row at first throws when counting times how many throws it would take to get it. But if it's nearly always that first throw which gives number 6 that hints dice being weighted.

How about that big mighty Brainless Boat of yours then losing that magic button for instantly stopping leaks and fixing speed slowing torpedo damage and (possibly also engine rooms disabling) flooding? Repairing torpedo damage and fully removing flooding needed visit to dry dock... Assuming ship survived battle and back to home. And reward is based to damage relative to target's hp pool. Sounds like this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pappa_betalar

Those team saboteurs are where I have the problem. If they want to just watch ships sailing Youtube no doubt gets WoWs gameplay videos at faster rate than anyone could watch even if doing it 24/7. I wonder how well that explanation of "just relaxing" when keeping kicking ball to own goal would fly even in some street/backyard hobby football. Though I'm sure that ball would quite fast start flying at full speed toward that player also from foot of other team's players... Even without any statistics kept by game I don't have reset/"flush memory" button to forget those team saboteurs. Like Svietlana in previous (domination) match in Strait doing 90 degree turn toward edge and then turning to follow edge when getting close. Or that team's other carrier (Langley) with 1/1/1 deck achieved nothing more than two planes downed in whole match with awesome 28XP... Including victory bonus because I managed to carry hard enough for ~2,8k XP and 113k damage sinking four cruisers in destroyer with total of 15 citadel hits. (+ Nicholas and Hosho)

Now it seems to work in reverse for destroyers: If destroyer survives losing third of hp without detonation it's unlikely to detonate even if taking beating down to hundreds of HPs. Just had one another detonation from high health.

Those were fun/good times during closed beta when you could say in almost every defeat match that whole team tried to play and win. Now how to get even halfway back to that situation... Or is it bigger problem than trying to get average player to change behaviour to get WG to actually demand those average players to understand some gameplay basics? Homo Urbanus Consumericus just isn't very natural being. Because amount of team effort saboteurs has been in drastic rise lately. What's with all these battlesheeps turning 45 degrees farther away from enemy's direction than destroyers and cruisers. Besides the usual broadside sailing in straight line in front of guns of half of the enemy team suicides lately even tourist cruisers have been doing that same going to hump border at max range thing.

So all slow mid tier USN BBs would be automatically punished further from being unable to get closer to faster ships? And British battlecruisers in Jutland didn't detonate to their citadel/magazine protection getting penetrated, but because of more volatile propellant and gross disregard for safety: Because of designed safety measures slowing down rate of fire from wanted lots of safety doors and hatches between magazine and turret's gun house were kept open along with storing more propellant locally in turrent. And because of increasing fire rate caused fears of faster running out of ammunition and propellant supply of those was increased... Of course magazines weren't designed for that so extra propellant was stored even more insecurily outside magazines. So single turret penetrating hits which should have at most destroyed turret were able to start literal chain reaction reaching to magazine instantly sinking whole ship.

And why should anyone care if team play saboteurs don't like being called for their actions? Or are those people suddenly "more equal" than others? As you've probably failed to read them here's part of game rules: Those battlesheeps running to hump map's rear edge/hiding at their max range to avoid paint getting scratched 100% fit to that part of going against game design and fun gaming environment for their team mates.

While side showing DD will get overpenned by almost any AP bow showing DD is "long" enough for BB caliber APs to not overpen while overmatching bow plating. With the result that just two hits can basically take half of hitpoints of most destroyers. That's the way armor works. It can keep all small enough HEs "outside" (no direct damage) and when angled auto-bounce even big APs shells. But when not angled it also offers enough resistance to prevent big caliber APs from overpenning the ship... Vs. that totally unarmored ship taking lots of damage from any HE shells but letting any bigger APs through without shell detonating inside the ship.

Cleveland's citadel is basically almost completely below waterline so you need to hit there. Armor model shows best were citadel is. http://gamemodels3d.com/worldofwarships/vehicles/pasc007 And citadel's top armor (51mm) auto-bounces all shallower angle shells penetrating side any higher than waterline. Rest of the Cleveland has so flimsy construction that even 130mm AP overpenetrates it from closer range straight angle hits. So unless any bigger caliber AP hits citadel area (or turret/barbette) it's going to go through ship just like bullet through cardboard box. Resulting Cleveland being safer from AP fire at close range than long range. Historically those guns would have had serious problems in getting even single hit to BB sized non-stationary target from 20km. Max range would have been usefull only for land target bombardment. Biggest point of bigger guns was shooting through thicker armor. Besides being able to punch through thicker armor from straight angle in this game that's also bigger caliber AP's ability to often overmatch bow platings of ships and get normal penetrations (or even citadel hits) no matter how angled.

And not only staying at max range but actively running away from enemy from start of the match to map borders then usually being lots of time out of battle because of slow speed of USN BBs while cruisers and battleships actually playing to win suffer. Plus of course sailing broadside straight towards enemy for easier citadel hits when enemy comes after these battlesheeps. Then it sure isn't military books you're reading. Because sniping is accurate hitting of selected targets instead of just spamming ammunition all over the place because they happen to fly far enough. And Bismarck's mission was to break through to Atlantic to hunt convoys instead of stopping to fight British warships.

In other class that single "substandard player" just doesn't have so huge difference to multiple aspects of the match when facing competent counterpart than in carriers. Just had match in which Bogue shot down 17 planes during whole match... Losing 16 planes to enemy Zuiho who also sinked three ships getting High Caliber. And enemy carrier did that in something like half the match. (because by then it was going down under HE rain) And guess what that Bogue did for the rest of the match? Fed remaining fighters to remaining enemies instead of keeping them safely outside AA range to spot. That's indeed the biggest balancing problem.

Hitpoints and firepower sitting thumbs up its arse at map edge behind one cap is no good. They matter only if they control big enough area of the map. Or if enemy is dumb enough to rush in instead of stalling and taking control of rest of the map. And unless you put ships side by side they can't even that well focus that firepower to take out kiting enemies. Slow USN battleships tend to always lag behind cruisers anyway and IJN battlesheeps use their speed to go fast humping border so they can't get good hits on kiting enemies. And how often you get cruisers to group decently instead of half of also them staying at max range? But if those DDs don't have any support they can't stop even semicompetent enemies from pushing.

And lots of battlesheeps are totally Balless Bo(a)ts afraid of getting paint scratched and trying to find a way to drop of the map by humping borders instead of controlling map... With good part of them being totally Balless&Brainless sailing in straight line with that broadside toward enemy.

Your English is better than what I sometimes see from people who live in English speaking countries. For one thing player quality is sinking to Challenger Deep at the moment. Last couple days have been completely horrible. And of course those [edited]clowns then complain when someone who knows aiming citadels them when they do something stupid like sailing in straight line with perfect 90 degree broadside. As for cruisers at least USN cruisers after Cleveland are now rather weak with even Des Moines struggling to keep up because it needs to get closer distance to use its DPM exposing it to punishment from BBs and railgun cruisers.