EsaTuunanen

Kiev is support ship. It doesn't have stealth for capping in early game. You use it either by following ~2-3km behind friendly stealthy destroyers to support them in capping. Or stay with cruisers and annoy enemies with constant AP/HE rain and use speed and controlled turns (try to stay in oblique angle to enemy) to avoid getting hit. Later in game with enemy destroyers gone its speed can be used for taking caps.

BBs can survive most hits, in fact when properly played and with premium consumables quite huge amount. But their slow firerate makes them very bad for learning gunnery. Also except for IJN BBs, especially Kongo, they're very slow until Tier 7/8. Meaning if you go to wrong place you're easily out of action for long times giving advantage to enemy team. (same is caused by Balless Boat players afraid of paint getting scratched and hiding behind team) And you can also get swarmed and surrounded by group of faster enemies. Also big slow BBs are favorite targets for IJN "torpedo boats" and also other destroyers can sink BB basically in single ambush attack. And while "crossing the T" was valid tactic for most of the time big gunned ships ruled naval warfare in this game showing side to enemy means taking lots of damage So cruisers should be the first main class for up to at least Tier 4 to learn gunnery. All of them have lot faster firing guns than BBs, with high punch per shell replaced by higher fire rate. Their downside is mediocre durability: Showing side to almost any decent gun equipped ship leads to taking lots of damage unless enemy player is bad. And when keeping ship and armor angled HE spam from multiple enemies does lots of damage fast. So even more than in BBs you want to avoid getting targeted by many enemies... Especially battleships with big guns whose AP shells smash through cruiser's bow/stern. On positive side most cruisers are lot faster and more agile than BBs so you can more easily avoid getting surrounded by enemies... Unless you use speed to rush into middle of enemy team/into crossfire. Destroyers are even more agile and most of the time faster than any cruiser. But they have the least amount of hitpoints and their armor consists of two glued together tinfoils and paint on top of it. Because of that any hit to mid section or stern can be expected to disable either engine or rudder. So to be effective all of them need to use stealth to avoid direct confrontations with stronger ships and show themselves only in favorable circumstances. When mastered some of them can act almost completely independently from rest of the team. Anyway at least knowledge how destroyers operate is needed for getting good in other classes. And you're newbie. Noob is someone who is totally bad because of not knowing a sh*t and not even willing to learn anything. (or incapable because of Dunning-Kruger)

Setting some minimum standards for players to be able to play in PvP after say tier 3 would be best start for WG to improving overal game meta. With nerfs to counters of BBs and no slightest skill requirements has simply made BBs and sitting at max range so easy option for all team saboteurs. So removing worst players from PvP would likely also decrease number of BBs besides having bigger share of them playing actively and actually supporting team. That would improve situation of cruisers lot. DDs also suffer from lack of support, but cruisers simply suffer even more from bad BB players. (also bad DD players hiding behind others/humping map borders hurt cruisers by denying enemy spotting)

WR alone is too unreliable. In short term or when looking situation in single ship without big number of battles it can be very heavily affected by MM luck. While with some MM luck total team saboteur can have not so horrible WR: That 6800 match team saboteur with ~8k average damage has 40,9% WR. So few other factors have to be taken into account. But it definitely isn't any quantum physics to check player's WR, damage, accuracy and survival. WG has all the statistics needed for deciding limits for maintaining some minimum gameplay standards while allowing learning players. I just don't see how anyone at least trying to help team to win would fail in achieving 10k average damage in Kongo. (unless being AFK half the time) And accuracy and survival tell that 6,4k average damage wasn't because of "too eager tanking of hits for the team". Heck, even that yoloing player should have better stats because of vastly surer damage dealing from shorter range while tanking hits giving team mates chance to do more damage.

Which just in no way corresponds with memory. Clear majority of different tier ship divisions have ships which scale badly outside their MM. And with potatoes doing most of those divisions probability is good for meeting also some stock hull ships in them. Also your memory is failing in game mechanics: Most of the time three tiers lower BB takes heavy damage from any direction while unable to do much damage back... Assuming it even has speed/range to answer before getting smashed/burned. In cruisers situation is similar with little armor/hitpoints or firepower to effectively fight back. Even St. Louis scales not so well to just T5 because of lack of speed and gun range. Also in destroyers three tier difference is big for most of them, getting seriously outclassed in durability/guns/torps. Some exceptionally strong ships not suffering much, or even having some advantage like in comparison super fast torpedo reload, don't disprove rule. Or are you just cherry picking those situations? Cherry picking again. You yourself did that in your first post in this thread!

WG sure failed totally in making game play basics information easily available to players. But if there's willingness to learn it should be already obvious by Tier 4/5 that rushing in to get shot at by half the enemy team is plain suicide for cruiser. (Tier 7 ships still go merrily into IQ Canyon of Two Brothers) Or hiding at max range being very inefficient in BB should be clear by Tier 5. Or how about carrier going to exposed islands in east end of Strait and basically waiting for enemy torpedo boat to come from center? I've seen same player do it twice. At latter time he had basically two minutes to turn Hosho around from first detection of that Isokaze heading there and still kept going toward it! (instead of turning away to give me time to get into range to cut off that Isokaze) And then there are these: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/69127-games-since-the-past-2-weeks/page__st__60__pid__1514689#entry1514689 It's up to WG to put gun on face of those and tell them: "Not willing to play properly? Then we'll lock you to Co-op into bot team!" Also adding game play basics information into game doesn't work alone with damage already done. It needs using stick on those team saboteurs. Like players doing ~7k average damage in Fuso and ~6k in Kongo, 11k in Nagato. Those should simply be locked into Co-op for "probation" period and if game play doesn't improve limit continues. That could be done by automatic system without need for insane amount of workers to monitor players, so cost can't be obstacle.

That comparison is completely inadequate. More proper comparison is football goalkeeper going to stand in corner of field. Or field players keeping kicking ball to own goal. As example there's now 6800 match player with little over 8k average damage... As in 6,4k in Kongo over 165 battles, 7½k in Fuso over ~200 battles, 10k in New Mexico, 11k in Nagato etc... Co-op bots would do way more damage. Pampering these team saboteurs needs to stop. With BBs fighting actively and tanking damage also cruisers would survive better because of not being so much easier targets than rear line hiding Balless&Brainless retard boats.

Funny thing, but all those NOT-free to play games use stick to coerce players into learning how to play: You're not willing to learn even basics - Forget getting forward from first level or two! Year and half of Free-to-Fail should have more than proved that carrot alone doesn't work.

Nothing historically accurate in destroyers detonating from first hits. Unless it was torpedo hit.

Too many of those who would start playing/bother to learn something only under threat of good old fashioned corporal punishment. I've literally watched three cruisers suicide into between those islands in Solomons two minutes after I warned cruisers from going there. And some of those team saboteurs would need that just to improve their manners to start with, because parents didn't get that "screw the others" crap out from them. Hence WG should simply put some minimum standards for players to get to say above T3/4 in PvP. Like how about 6800 match player with 8,6k average damage? With ~7½k in Fuso 6,4k in Kongo 10k in New Mexico 6k in Minekaze 5k in Farragut. (single smoke firing session would give double of that)

BB stands mainly for these: Balless Bo(a)t: I have range so I use rest of the team as meatshield to avoid paint job getting scratched. Brainless Bo(a)t: - I'll suicide rush so that every enemy can hit at me from every direction/keep showing side for most of enemy team. - Previous ship going past that island/gap between islands got torpedoed so I'll go there. - Enemy "torpedo boats"/destroyers are alive so I'll keep sailing in straight lines. Balless&Brainless: Bouncing APs keep scratching paint job, so instead of pushing to cap I'll turn toward map border to show side for half the enemy team to shoot at. Fire chance difference is overhyped. Got my first ever Witherer in Gremlin just 10 days ago, when one Kongo for some reason took 30k flooding damage after single torpedo hit. (must have been that MM's mistake of one tomato which wasn't in my team) But you should really try "stealth citadelling" cruisers like Kirov, Kuma and Königsberg. Kirov takes citadel hits from over 11km.

Still without "stick" part for those not wanting to learn it will be as successfull for removing team saboteurs as hoping for world peace is while those screwing the others get away without punishment. Single AFK match shouldn't yet trigger punishment. There's always possibility for actual real world surprise situation to prevent playing. And even with good PC game might still crash, or internet connection/power might go out. But more than two per day or say 10 matches should definitely trigger "probation" period aka limit to Co-op only.

If golf player got "handicapped" by saboteur constantly poking ball to sand bunkers and hazards that would be equivalent... With saboteur getting fast used as ball or learn to behave! Still you would have at least tried to screen your team/spot enemies in Mutsuki. Instead of uselessly hiding behind everyone or trying to find hole in map edge... Or suicide rushing still closer to spotting stronger enemy destroyer supported by cruisers few km behind it. That's the the difference between these currently over abundant team saboteurs and player who isn't good but is trying! You should have chosen Morden considering how you defend anarchistic freedom of "screw the others" team saboteurs basically playing for enemy team.

Very long range very long travel time torps aren't really effective counter for rear hiding BBs. Carriers hunting BBs instead of DDs would counter those about stationary sitting BBs best. Ability to take out enemy destroyers trying to hide in smoke is pretty powerful ability: After enemy destroyers are gone only carrier planes can be major obstacle to free moving around. Also ability to detect incoming torps from good range makes smoke firing lot more safer, when there are stealthy enemies around.

Noticed similar turn of average team play/player quality toward total crap that 10 days-two weeks ago. Soon followed by high increase in numbers of AFKs/bots. Lots of team saboteurs also during weekdays nowadays.

And all it would take from WG is to make server monitor if stealthy destroyer does spotting of enemies. Failing that could trigger automatic locking to PvE for certain "probation" time.

And how do you even try to do that when half the "team" can be literally playing for enemy team? Amount of players who aren't even trying to do anything useful for team is increasing. I don't expect everyone to become good, I expect them to at least try playing right if they come to playing field. For example battleship player always hiding in rear firing from max range and going for borders has no business in PvP. Same for that always border humping "carrier chasing" DD. Or cruiser always suiciding after couple minutes. If someone started just sitting in corner or kept kicking ball to own goal in some backyard football it's sure bet he would be fast literally and physically kicked out from field!

Carrot has been tried in increasing quanties for what? Year and half... And despite of all these "reward missions" lately amount of AFKs/bots, bad play and team sabotaging is just increasing. So besides carrot stick is clearly needed to coerce learning some basic game play and team work. And do you really think those Balless Boats are suddenly starting to support team for getting control of strategic map points, instead of hiding in rear/running to edges by some pretended planning? That works only if players already understand game basics needed for winning. Or there's clear punishment for not playing for the team like it is in real world in military, organizations and all the various teams. In closed beta team play aspect worked automatically, because basically every player was actually interested from game play and how different classes fit into it. Basically after that new players have been constantly demanded learning less and less to proceed up from lowest tiers.

Even though after Tier 5 BBs have deck and side plating proof against direct damage from small caliber HE hits along with halving fire chance. And German BBs are more proof than others already from Tier 4. Or maybe it's lack of Brain OS?

If you want to see Dunning-Krugers open this, maximize minimap size and increase playback speed and enjoy the show of suiciding retard cruisers and Balless&Brainless bo(a)ts. https://www.dropbox.com/s/gue0bysts7wdqz0/20161215_184657_PRSD001-Gremyashchy-1942_41_Conquest%20suicide%20cruisers%20and%20Balles%20Boats.wowsreplay?dl=0

DPM which isn't really meaningfull against much anything in actual damage. Well, maybe gunboat could start one or maybe even two fires more in a whole match. But at least it was something slightly useful. Increase of AA buff simply isn't any real difference making for destroyers to justify BFT's new price. While not getting any really usefull 1 point skills: In destroyer it's always best to assume every enemy with semi decent shot at you is going to want piece of you when spotted. So besides knowing when you're spotted there isn't that much utilitarian value. And bigger smoke is really most usefull for RN cruisers. Destroyer smoke is always big enough to fit in while moving slightly and German hydro DDs are going to make smoke camping just more riskier for destroyers.

Those files are completely unneeded after patching is over. Have to wonder why launcher doesn't remove them after patching, because with time that folder would end up taking dozens of GBs of space. And occasionally those old patch files apparently cause update to halt. Once had update process fail to finish and cleaning that folder and running launcher and downloading patch files again fixed it. Since that I've always cleaned that folder after update is finished.

Have you cleaned folder where launcher downloads compressed patch files and then leaves them to sit there uselessly "for all eternity"?

Wouldn't it be better to try changing course before that iceberg is at 50m distance from bow?

So how much of the changes aren't DD nerfing to decrease amount of needed skill for countering them?