Ishiro32

Damn and to think that even with math on my side I still lose all planes on shokaku from time to time. I should probably play better with my OP ships. I do agree with your conclusion. Escort doesn't scale as good as CV health, but then again at high tiers you are supposed to stack your AA with other ships and CA are mostly panic buttons and I do not feel the need for them to scale so hard. Anyway what I think is more important is other thing you said. CA Panic button mechanics and escort job are boring and unrewarding.

So you are not saying anything about lock circle but you want to change flight physics. Ok, I agree with that flight physics should be looked at and changed a bit for planes to feel more like planes and not tie fighters. It is still better than it was, but ok. Change like that... will take a long time. If they started working on it right now, i wouldn't expect it in the next 6-9 months at least. If you just want to increase locked into flying straight, then this is pretty much the same as "lock" circle. And I can't really describe to you how much it broke low tiers. Let me tell you this, I am rather decent CV player... I had extremely hard times to perform manual drops at tier IV with Hosho. For new player, manual drop at that tier was pretty much impossible feat. If they didn't recieve super auto then those ships would be simply worthless. Problem with super auto was that at top tier it completely destroyed skill celling, where auto drop = manual drop in performance. You probably didn't notice it as you didn't play CVs then and as I have said earlier, CV tier VIII and higher did not felt this change at all. For them everything was pretty much the same. So for you by extension also (well we had OP auto drop then, which sometimes was better than manual)

Ok I said wrong not activation time but bigger circle. We HAD it before. It didn't work. This idea was tested and it completely broke low tiers while it almost did nothing to high tiers.

Once again, longer activation time affects mainly low tier CVs as top tier are too fast for it to mean anything. How many times I have to write it? Longer activation time is not anwser at least no just doing it. Wait for the the "new" reverse manual drop that WG is working on. This might be what you actually want. I am really intrested to see it in action, if it will break IJN CVs? Make them UP? OP? It will change the whole line and balance for it, that's for sure.

Yeah I think it was pretty fun for all. First 5 minutes of the game was testing the defences of each other. They had superior fighter wings while we had great CA which helped us at the start. Both our teams had CVs in moving close to each other so they provide cover. Result was that because of fighter presence I had to change targets, I lost 2 TB wings to fighter wing and AAA while, but I noticed beached CA so it died. Their attack was more succesful as it almost sank me, but thankfuly I survived and went a bit more back. After that multiple ships were fighting for caps. We won 2, they have won 1 and 4th was under attack from both sides. I am sure we won thanks to our ships which dominated top side of the map while we as CVs were fighting at the bottom. After most of their forces were broken we finally we are to push through their air defence and got Essex and Lexi. I do think that most of the people in that game had fun and good game after it was deserved.

I am not saying why mechanicaly they have more damage. I am saying that they should have more damage per game simply because this is their main role in the fleet, while BBs perform other duties on the field rather well. @Genai I recently had 2 vs 2 game. 2 x shokaku vs 1 Lexington & 1 Bomber Essex Their CVs died very late in the game. It was intresting and fun game.

BBs will always have less damage per game than bomber CVs, simply because those CVs are all about the damage while BBs can support their team with pushing and tanking and in case of US BBs, their AAA stats.

I don't think you have read what I wrote. Performance issue is only on the low tier which at the last stages of CBT got huge buffs. Those were there most likely because devs were scared of the low CV population. They need damage tweaks and I don't think there is even place for discussion here. Other than that what I wrote is not related to what you can "balance". I am talking about CV gameplay issues. The problem that they are creating frustrating experience for enemies, countering them feels boring and lacks this feeling of "outplaying" etc. CVs are brimming with gameplay issues. Power wise, they are not OP at all and those hastly made tweaks before OBT did their job more or less

We will see how it will end. If they will try to balance CVs like I heard arty is balanced in WoT so by random number generation, I will have no problem with just leaving this game.Kancolle also has carriers and is glorified random number generator... and it has anime girls, so you know. It will be clearly better game that WoWs with arty rng clickers.

Just take a bit more distance regarding this case. In the end this is just a game and most important part is to have fun. You don't like it? Great, voice it. But be calm about it and methodical. And most important patient. Development process is long and it is multi-staged. I do think in recent time we gave our CMs clear massage what most of the community thinks about this problem so I hope they will forward our concerns. Even ST said not that it's ok, they just said that you have to deal with it. There is nothing you can do right now, but wait, calmly voice your concerns and once again wait. Don't blame the player, blame the game.

WoT and WoWs have different dev teams. WoWs clearly is a project that is suffering because of the rigid connection with WoT. Still this is different team and I do belive they can deviate if needed for the good of the game. Feedback is important, always. As for the CVs, longer discussion. They have a loooot of problems, but I do think they will be able to solve them... in about year of development. They rushed OBT and a lot of aspects suffered. CVs were class that was probably ready least for OBT while DDs were in really really bad spot balance wise.

My point is that you are dismissing good feeback by using argument that other do no care enough to voice their concerns. They do have concerns even if the blob is going forward and playing, game needs to improve or it will end up like WoWp. Because those that blob will stop playing and they will never voice why. I agree that people on forum whine to much, but feedback is feedback. Never dismiss it easily. You don't have to listen to what they say exactly, but try to think what are the reasons they started venting their frustration. How can you improve what you have. What really is casuing problems they are having. If some people whine too much then tell them that, nothing wrong with that, but their feedback is always valid. Always improve, always go forward, always use what you currently have in the best way possible, even if it is garbage it might be helpful.

Statistic show that 50 out of 100 people don't like it. Does that mean that In whole world only 50 people don't like it? There are problems with CVs on low tier and MM is busted on high tier at the moment creating very unrewarding and not fun games. Also I do think there is a problem with MM and divisions in how they work with each other. Find me one person who thinks otherwise. A lot of CV players are just scared that nerfs will go in the wrong direction.

@Don_Prince What ffed MM? There has to be made some minor changes. 1.) Get rid off this stupid rule that after 5 minutes game is forcing others to play with you. Tier difference inherently feel bad for the weaker players and it doesn't really do much for the stronger. Yes, then top tiers will be searching games for very long, but this is minor issue and it will not affect majority of playerbase. If playerbase is not healthy enough to handle them then they shouldn't force them to try. People in moba games for top MMR ranked games wait for more than 30 minutes sometimes and you don't see them whine. They have always option to play normal or in this case pick lower tier ship. Maybe drag people after 30 minutes. I don't care, 5 minutes limit clearly doesn't work for tiers X. 2.) Force limit on tier spread for divisions. Max difference between lowest and highest in div shouldn't be more than 2. With that also make sure that game is set up for all players so for example. Tier IV player and tier VI want to play together, find game for them where tier IV is lowest tier in game and tier VI is highest. The fact that I can meet lagley when I play shokaku is a joke and it happens only because someone DARES to play tier IV and VI division. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. @Aerroon As I have said earlier game was close and probably even fair for you considering how your team played. But... and this one is big. Games are not about being fair, but about fun. Your enemies most likely did not feel a lot of gratification from this game. You had power advantage from the get go. It feels unfair. It feels like game cheated you. While those 12 people might have provided some challange to you, each of them did not feel significant enough to feel they accomplished something. The same for your team, they most likely also felt not important. This is huge problem and it has to be adressed in one form or another. We had discussion on forum during CBT about mode where one player is higher tier and rest is lower but have number advantage and most common opinion was that it wouldn't really be fun for the lower tiers. This is exactly the same case here. Balance is not important in this case. What is important is the frustration of the playerbase. Carrier nerf I could really write another huge topic about it, but let's give the short version. In CBT low tier CVs in hands of new players were worthless. Right now low tier CVs are too strong and even new players are doing ok. Any sane dev goal is easy to learn hard to master. Problems right now are: - Low tier CVs have a huge learning issue as they require different set of skills and you are using. Even with overpowered stats new players perform barely ok. - At the same time after this first wall they are not very hard and adverage players can perform extremely well. - All counters against CVs are very static, pasive and simple. They do not provide a lot of great moments for neither carrier player nor CA player. The most fun counter is evade as it is very active and let's you outplay someone and it was working pretty well during the patch with "dancing BBs", but it had different problems. - CVs struggle in hard to master category. Because of the simple nature of counters, there is not a lot of place for the play to grow around them, at the same time CVs do get easier to play with each tier as one of the most important stat for planes is constantly growing. Now when I think about I do think that devs know those problems. Each of them was adressed in some patches. I am confident that even if they nerf CVs they will not ignore issues with low tier. At the same time I am pretty sure they know that high tier CVs in the healthy MM are not creating any issues, we had PT to prove it. I do still think that CVs are underdevelopted and not ready for the OBT.

Uhhhh... I don't like posts like that. Self congratulatory garbage. You are loud about this case, a bit too much for my taste. You are repeating yourself, indirectly attacking ST instead of focusing on devs as this issue has been reported already... multiple time... on multiple stages of game. Uhhhhh

MM system without MMR? What could possibly go wrong?

While game was probably close. I really can't watch it right now to tell more. The thing is. It is still rather bad MM. I would like to know opinions of your enemies after the game. Did they have fun? Probably not, because you wasted 10 ships, so you were killing them with ease and they couldn't retaliate. How much fun did your team have? I do think that for you this game was very fun and exciting and congratulations on great score, situation like that don't happen just because you are higher tier than enemy. Good job. Still, joy of many outweights the joy of few. I still do think that this is example of bad MM and situations like that should not happen.

Waaait. Unless you yourself are hugging a map edge then this shouldn't be issue at all.

We do need forced balanced setups. This is step backwards in development, but I do think it is needed if we want healthy game. Strike setups as well as air domination setups are failing. One is overperforming while another is undeperforming. I want them in game, just more balanced, they need to spend more time developing those. I still strongly belive in what I wrote two weeks ago http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/17729-patch-0401-carrier-gameplay-issues/page__pid__322623#entry322623 WG should give a lot of incentive for CVs to go with their teams. AA screening for them should be natural, not forced by having pocket CA who do only that. For this to happen CVs need to be closer to their teams. I myself when I ask for escort, try to ask CA where he wants to move or I try to move myself with the team. So when I notice that enemy cv abandons idea of sniping me I thank my CA and relief him from his duty so he can have more fun on his own. He usualy is not so far from the action so I do hope they have fun and a lot of CVs drop the idea of snipe after first failed drop so really he isn't missing all that much. Sometimes I can't be left alone sadly. I do not like having pocket crusiers and I hate concept of pocket crusiers for CVs which are gliding boarders. Another thing I noticed. Teams with CV advantage are starting playing very defensively, knowing that they do not need to engage in full surface exchange to win game. They just need to screen CVs. This creates very stale games.

So many people boarder humping?! Perverts.

No I don't think he should contest CV, because I don't belive +-2 for CV is in any way currently reasonable. Jumps in power are too big. He can not snipe you nor he can out damage you on the field. What if those Essex and Taihous didn't want ot kill you and just nuked your team? They have advantage of speed and damage. They would win damage race. They have messed up and you and your team played better. Congratulations. I also won games in RJ against shokaku which is two tier above me, but It was because he made mistake and our team played great game. Still I do not belive that those games are in any way fair for the lower tier carriers as simply the jumps in power are too big. One tier is fair, more difficult and honestly, fun. Two tiers is just mean.

You just said he would lose anyway because he can not in any way out damage you and he would not be able to snipe you. So this was game ending. He would lose anyway in this game. Lexi can not contest HIA which is what I was saying. If he was playing shokaku he would also would not be able to contest, unless you made some huge mistake and let him get you, but even then you have fighter, AAA and hp advantage so would have to really mess up to die in one wave.

117knots or 113 knots with more health. Sorry but at that tier this is very, very slow. Thrown against 156 knots HIA which have much more health? Which has more torps available? And is able to sortie them faster? Yeah no. Also all Lexi power is in one wing which can not hunt DDs and whole her firepower is panicked by one CA fighter. Lexi can not contest HIA, difference is too big.

Fighters? Yes, duel for air superiority was balanced more or less. Anything else? Nope. Lexi bomber wings are very slow.You should know more than others that speed and durability of planes are most important stats for the carrier. Old saipan was proof of it. And yes lexi should be able to survive and as sharana wrote the crusier was the one who dealt killing blow. Still Lexi is able to survive, but not to contest HIA on the field in any way. Lexi is bound to lose that game unless HIA makes a lot of mistakes.

Not so close as you think and as I have stated well put formation is negating CV completely. No skill will give you acces to those ships. (If they are of the same tier) High tier players shouldn't be average joes. High tier players should play good and they do. It happens sometimes in OBT so I don't think we should really do anything against high tier. People who know their roles and place will be playing as a team even withou word of communication. 5 man team of the same tier can set up great formation and this is number of players in moba, and high MMR people in MOBA do play together and have amazing teamwork even on randoms, simply because they know what they should be doing and they know that other also know it. They move in silent union and it is one of the best feeling you can get from teamgames. Low tier is another story and 8k torps are a joke.