Ishiro32

Sorry for late response. This heatwave is really taking a toll on me. Overall I must say that this was really enjoyable reply. You should bite more. Thank you most and for all for acknowledging issues I was talking for couple of pages. It did feel like potential issues were just being swepted under the rug, because stat wise CVs are over performing. Well I did not play BBs for a long time and dispersion for them sure has a lot of issues, but there is still aspect of aiming. I remember that it does feel great getting couple of citadel hits or one shotting a crusier. Even with rng it feels like you earned those kills. AAA rng is void of this feeling. AAA barrage skill has this aspect more or less, but I think it feels weak and pale compared to the good feeling of great BB shot. Those times where rng on BBs feels like is taking away your hits does need to be adressed, but I am really not all that knowledgeable about battleships so I tend to not really comment on them. . Remembering damage would be certainly intresting, but I guess this "reset" is supposed to simulate one thing. Planes did not really tank hits from AAA, so for them concept is just was it hit in the area that would result in death. Now the idea is simple, the longer you are in the AAA zone the higher chances you have got hit. So it's not hp that is depleting just your let's say "luck". Planes HP should be rebalnced with this remembering and I don't think it would accomplish much. And one more thing about low tier AAA. WG does have global stats and is balancing according to them. If CVs would lose plane not enough they would react. The fact that WG does not mention AAA effectivnes as problematic makes me simply thing that issue lies elsewhere. I think the problem is not plane kills themselves but how people are feeling about them. How is that one ship shot down 37/83 of tier IX IJN planes (so almost half of the enemy planes) but does not feel any great accomplishment from it? How does it feel ending up game with 4 random plane kills? Pretty indifferent, but if all team has that number of plane kills it sums up 48 plane kills. And not whole hangar is filled with attack planes and let's be honest the value and number of lost torpedo bombers is the important one. How can you make that "ummmf" situation with AAA so influx of positivie feedback will be remember by the player? You want those planes melt, you want to see those fireballs coming down from the sky hitting the water harmlessly just near the ship you escorted. I don't think game is covering that need well enough, but that does not translate that there is a need for flat AAA buffs. Regarding AAA. I do think if enough people show their positive feedback to some more reasonable changes, WG will listen to their customers. That's the reason why I am still writing in this topic. I do want for people to acknowledge those problems and at least have them thinking that it would be great idea. Having just firing arcs as damage zones I think is something that can be reasonably fast added to the game. Alltitude idea is nice, but considering WG did not really liked idea of fuel I doubt we will see something so "complex". Personally would like to see something like that, especially since planes do move on different alltitudes already, so layers are in game engine, but I think it would be simply regarded as too difficult thing to manage for new players. Actually even most of my ideas regarding fighters are probably considered too gimicky. WG seems to want a very clean and tight game, actiony arcady. It bites them back because low tiers CVs do not really fit the picture and result is playerbase not willing to grind past those first tiers. Those are other problems and I kinda changed subject . Did you enjoy what you have bitten? Once again you and your vivid fantasy. Maybe some citation? I have never mentioned dive bombers in this topic. You noticed that I oppose your silly ideas and I don't sugar coat that they are bad, I also explained why I think so. Based on that and fact I am rather dedicated carrier player you decided to fill all the gaps in your head to create very intresting image of my person. Problem is that you decided to share that distorted image and continuously use it to discredit what I am saying. Also anyone is free to "attack" any of my ideas. If I fail at defending them I am sure something even better would forge from that discussion. I just don't accept anything targeted at me as an counterargument against my ideas or opinions.

Fighter decks were a waste of time since they were introduced. They are boring and ineffective, I strongly advice people to not play full fighter decks. I tried to make them work multiple times on different builds in CBT. Without changes to fighters they will stay in this worthless spot.

Press X when aiming. It should switch to the target closest to place where you are aiming. If it didn't pick up correct one, just press X again until you find the ones you wish to torp or shoot.

Well the US TB work a bit different than IJN. Actually it is much easier to minimize damage from US TBs than from the IJN ones If you perform manuver before torps are dropped. As you see in this video USN TBs are slower, have longer activation time etc. If you start turning just before drop is locked you can evade a lot of it. Also It is much better to turn into the incoming torps. Please notice how Myogi in that video turned in the wrong direction too late. As a result she got full 5/5 wave and would actually receive 6/6 If my plane did not die before the drop, while New York turning into the wave got 3/5 and it would be 3/6 if I had additional plane. Just like that 50% damage reduction. The crusier which received a close drop from me would actually get 0/6 If he would decide to turn into torps. Activation was so close to the broad side that with his turn all of them would just not activate in time. You might consider that my two attacks on New York were succesful as I took half of his HP, but consider that it pretty much took me about 6 minutes to do. Attack of low tier TBs are pretty obvious considering how slow they are. Also CVs true gameplay starts from tier VI when crusier get their AAA skill and US BBs start to have some good AAA. Tier IV and V are pretty much boring warmup so you can get used to the different gameplay style. So before saying class is super easy, please do try to go through initial tiers. Tier IV and V are in no way representative of tier VIII.

You can still perform some escort task on low tier, but since tier IV and V are first ones players are meeting an aircraft threat there is simply no big focus on it. AAA from crusiers is opportunistic. Planes are slow, attacks are obvious if you look at the sky, there is not a lof planes in the sky. I have no idea why you are angry at me for saying this. Crusier escort job is mainly coming from the defensive fire skill at medium and higher tiers. At tier IV and V you screen destroyers on the frontline, while also fight other BBs. You help with AAA if the attack wing will happen to be nearby, but it is just an opportunity task. Also you ignored the main part of my post and focused on something that actually started like one post ago. And this is the reason why you don't want to continue discussion? I am just telling you how the game is working right now on live server, if you don't agree with me just tell me where I am wrong. Anyway you should have focused on first paragraph. You guys really change the subjects constantly. Hi OVan Yeah, 2 tier advantage is pretty stupid. In both cases CV vs CV and in case of AAA. Hope they will adress it sooner rather than later, because only CVs have to strange jumps in power from tier to tier. Maybe MM fixes promised will make those situation less often. Sadly tiers IX and X don't really have big enough playerbase.

Once again. You are talking about escort task. There is small element of the positioning, but it is pretty basic. Same situation as with fighters. Positioning them is a skill and there are mindgames involved and I would argue that there is much more in fighter cover than in CA cover, as fighters do have to consider whole map while CA usually care about their closest vicinity. Either way positioning is a skill of finding advanatage before engagement will take place. I do not deny that here there is player agency here. What I am actually talking is when planes are in AAA there is nothing more to it than waiting. Even secondary arment for BBs which is also automatic system is not the same from each direction so it will not be good from the bow or stern. Also DD ambushing BB (something which he was actively setting up and not waiting for it to happen) can mess up his attack. For example in my carrier tier VI I was able to dodge torpedo spread of minekaze for about 3 minutes from 3-5km range, simply because I knew the reload time and I knew he was gonna put torps on the white path. See there was something for me to do to counter or minimize the damage from something which would be considered hopeless situation. AAA putting it simply is rng slot machine. People stack AAA auras to create actually working not rng system. High tier BBs have strong AAA to force commitment from CV players if they would like to attack and so they can be a head of the formation. CA aside from few excpetions are treated as panic button machines. Overall their AAA is weaker than BB, but with skill it is vastly superior and is weakening AA attacks on rather big range. Pleace do tell me what kind of skill that cleveland showed to get rid off 41% of my attack planes. He did not do anything, it was all rng. That is the problem. ------------- Crusiers can evade torpedo waves. If you do not notice air attack you can say that you were tunnel visioned and try better next time. I do want to know what I could have done better in that video. I am not able to see any mistake from my part. I do not really want to go deeper into this topic, because I already talked about it like 3-4 times on this forum. The thing is you have active counteraction against CV tier higher. ----------- At lower tier full time escort is a waste of time for a crusier. Low tiers are for people to learn how to look at the sky and dodge. In that time CVs also are learning controls of the class, manual drop and basic stuff. When tier VI hits, you should be starting playing in formation. I am not complaining, at higher tier I did not notice any issues with people not escorting. BBs are always escorted. I play CV very aggresive so if I request an escort I will usually get it for the first couple of minutes of the game or depending on the situation for the whole game. Crusiers are the ones building formations, good players will do it and win by for example helping Montana which will wreck the rest. ------- Actually they can make the AAA power not scale so good with tiers. This is rather easy. Thing is... WG do not want to do it. You are still here? Heh... Great, we can have a farewell then. "You quietly laugh at the idiots in cruisers who thought AA could protect themselves and allies from planes, and sink some more helpless targets." "Says you, as the local carrier fanboi who wants his pet class to remain the top of the food chain." "Or just keep going on and on and on about how it is the CVs god-given, divine right to kill the other unclean heathen non-carriers at will, without them ever defending themselves." "It simply shows that you cosnider yourself to be better than all the other players, who are afterall just targets to freely kill with your carrier. Absolutely disgusting. People like you apparently really want this game to fail." "This is typical flatship-friend posting, not giving a single thought to how damaging this is to the game as a whole as long as they can be the lords of damage dealt." Those were baseless accusations that had nothing to do with our discussion. They were targeted at me and not my arguments. Any questions?

Oh well, I am a patient person. You say my thinking lacks logic, but what you do right now is taking what I said and applying it to the different concept. Escorting is a task that is using AAA mechanic and DF skill to protect their team. What I commented on is the AAA as a mechanic. The same way I comment on fighters which are in the similar situation albeit details change. Why did you even enter this discussion? Just to say you want better AAA on tier IV and V which you are playing right now? Will not happen, carriers have no reserves nor speed. There are no "real" escorts on that tier. Tier VI is a bit different and you will see me argue that carriers do start from tier VI, their opposition also satrt from tier VI. You want stronger escorts, so strong long range AAA? Well it's rng and can do what I showed in video. Please do tell me how much input had cleveland and what I did wrong. You want overall flat AAA buff? It will mess up with people who are sailing together and stacking their AAA auras. There would be simply no way to touch them. If you have proposition how to buff single unit AAA and not make AAA of a group impossible wall, be my guest. Why do you think there were AAA nerfs? And WG has all the statistics they need to know exactly when and how buff/nerf flat power of AAA. Tell me the reason why we have started this conversation.

I am tired of this. Manuvering to evade is not AAA. different mechanic, don't mix them up. I understand that you feel your crusiers are threatened by my views and yout think I do not consider different side of this AAA coin, but don't. I don't want people to be defenceless, there would be no fun then. Look at my signature in that topic regarding fighters I was talking about carriers, but I was talking about increasing defensive capabilities and increasing the skill celling for whole class. I also tried to adress such issues like fighters spotting DDs without any input from the CV player. If you have any more concerns regarding my view of AAA, please hold them after I prepare topic regarding it and post them there, I don't really care anymore about this topic.

MM fixes are planned for 0.4.1 from what we know. Nerf to performance of CV are also planned for that patch. So don't stress over this topic too much.

You have such a vivid fantasy. I think I am done with you, but maybe you want to tell me more about myself? You spiced up your posts with so many personal attacks that it would be boring ending it up without nice farewell. Don't disappoint me. I don't think there is a need of summing up this topic. When there will be something intresting to talk about regarding balance the new one will be created anyway.

Leave you guys for couple of hours and this is what you do to a topic. I did not expect anything from you, but I am still disappointed. Since I write I will quickly get rid off some accusations. I would not post a video if not directly asked for replay. I have only respect for that player and I do wish all people would act like him. This video is also showing how easy it is to make yourself not attractive target, which might be intresting thing for new players who are on tier IV and V. I do actually find annoying that you think so low of this New York with your implication that it was actually my fault he took only 5 torps. Sadly I have to play tier IV and V games If I am expected to have Midway. So I don't understand the accusation fo smurfing. I do find this particular post very saddening, as I actually never really used Sharana in any of my statements. Unless you have some quotes behind your claim, then I would be glad If you stoped saying such silly things. I do have my own view regarding this game and I am presenting is as my own on every occasion. Oh well... another topic ended up in flames. I am sure it's not the last one.

I did not state that AAA is perfect on every ship. There was no need for that bold. Difference is simple. In your situation, for the damage to happen, someone has to do something. For this situation happen BB has to for example sail between an islands and DD has to react before it will be killed by secondaries or main batteries. There is clear player input. AAA you simply have to be. I did not make any mistake in that video and Cleveland did not perform any additional action that would increase his effectivnes. This video is to show the broken nature of this passive system. The fact that sometimes people can't kill any planes is just another side of the same coin. I really don't have energy to explain the same thing multiple times though. You can either ignore visual proof of a critical flaw in design like some done here or just accept it as one of the problems that will have to be adressed sooner or later. For the CVs themselves and frustration connected with them, devs mentioned they will be adressing that so why not sit tight and wait?

Video is not there to show that AAA needs a nerf as a whole or that it's perfect on every ship. I even said it in the post with the video. It was a dice roll, he was very lucky. But it does expose potential issues with strong AAA in current system rather well as the situation was ridiculous.

Maybe I am merely pretending. Don't you know that I have different personality for ST and different for forum? Me and other me though everyone knew about it already. Also I am not a carrier demon that only wants the be fed those poor other ships like some would like to portray me as. I can be resonable, at least I hope so. Sometimes it happens, I swear. @CommissionerJan "It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him. And if the truth is undeniable, you create your own."

Well, I would really prefer for this discussion to focus more at the celebration of competent player than another CV nerf talk. A bit more positivity is needed for me If I plan to stay sane on this forum while discussing carriers.

I think you know at whom my "anwser" was targeted. My issue with cleve is that it has high chance of fighting tier V. Those carriers are in no way equipped to oppose cleve and it's long AAA range. Tier VI are struggling, but can do it. I don't want to really talk about cleve here. Pointless. We can continue it after the nerf. Fot the moment damage nerfs and changes to carriers themselves should be enough as an anwser to the over performance. Without AAA rework any global changes to it will lead up just to the situation in the video. Lack of player agency, static and boring domination. After 0.4.1 I will create topic about AAA and would be glad to have crusiers players comment on it. edit. How can you guys not find this video hillarious? I mean... look at this dice roll.

Yeah, but you don't see people talking that we need to increase damage or speed of fighters . Regarding Cleve we will see what they will do. I don't see a point in talking about that particular ship since it will change a bit. I said that my video proved a point that there is a clear issue with current AAA mechanics if there is a possibility of that situation. There was no player interaction in any shape or form. Planes simply died in very short amount of time on a huge range. My experience as a carrier player was meaningless as was experience of that Cleveland player. Those issues are why I am opposing any global AAA buffs without rework (some single ships could use AAA buff, while other nerf) and video is perfect anwser to those propositions. Some may not like it, but: "It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him. And if the truth is undeniable, you create your own."

There were suggestions of AA increase in this very topic. I made a point that AAA is too simple to be main counter as it lack player agency, so it can't be too good or it will be just silly. I know that Clevland true AAA godlike status comes from skill. But acually in this particular game I checked because I didn't belive. First two planes were killed without panic. Next 4 I am not sure, i would assume with skill, but can't be bothered to check. Bad rng roll. Gif with a laugh is at the video itself. I find it hillarious that game can do something like this in the situation where MM was actually pretty fair with teams. With proposed here buffs it will just happen more often. Cleveland itself will have it's AAA nerfed as said by devs already so it is just here to prove my point that AAA can't be main counter in current form.

Neg repping video which you do not like. You guys are amazing. My bad. I will try to not play against tier VI ships in my tier V CVs. Clearly issue with MM.I obviously just didn't know how to play against cleveland I just spotted. Something more relevant that fragment of game from the live server in the tight +-1 MM? Isn't that 175k game also my maximum damage? And my crazy 100% winratio on Hakuryuu. I am clearly the best carrier player on server with those amazing average stats after one game. Just a reminder. Also you all missed the point of this video. It was clearly bad roll as I did manage to attack clevelands and sink them in tier V CV.Issue is that it is random. We were talking about AAA as a main counter. With buffed range or damage pretty much all ships could do just what showed up in the video. Now I do ask...What should I have done to prevent this situation? How did this cleveland deserve those plane kills? Are you telling me that this is not broken and this should be considered as main counter? One of the big ideas I will remind you for buff was increasing range of AAA.

I hope you people remember talk about AAA in this topic. This is my anwser. One Cleveland with good rng roll on his side.

Hum? There was a question targeted at me? Sorry I am just skimmind through this topic right now. I don't have energy to continue any discussion here as I find it rather pointless. But I guess I did not adress that "force into gameplay" thing you and some other posters are mentioning. My anwser will probably result in me getting some flack, but oh well. I have no issue with carriers forcing gameplay behavior which was envisioned by developer. There are obviously some issues here and there, but I do find the way carriers impact meta an elegant and very natural solution. I don't think carrier will ever be balanced against other classes 1 on 1. You can't really expect that from a game with asynchronous gameplay. Games like that are extremely rare and their balance is usually designed around making sure that whole thing is healthy and not each and every element. RPS design for DD, BB and CA kinda confirms that thesis. Carriers most likely are being balanced against the whole fleets. If they will outperform somewhere or against one class they will most likely be brought back to line, but they will operate on different set of rules than other ships. A lot of it is coming from the RTS nature and what people actually find "fun" in RTS-like experience. Game is pretty obviously created with the combined fleet combat idea around. It is much more focused on teamwork than WOT. I like it. I used play MMO's like Ragnarok Online where priests did not have any combat capabilities. I used to play games like DoTa or LoL where I played carries and supports, I was the most dangerous player on my team, but I was worthless on my own. You play alone, you lose. Those concept are very attractive to me. If they were not I would simply stop playing this game. Why would I force myslef to something I does not enjoy? Once again, that does not mean that I think carriers are fine or they should be the hand of god. But people who scream the most simply have issue with the core concept of the whole game.

Actually it wasn't so bad quality wise. Still there is no such thing as soft aiming, but in my opinion it is good enough to show. I did consider this New York a target 4 times. Each time he proved to me that he was not gonna be easy pray. In the first two attempts when I noticed that he is evading I quickly changed to the most optimal and closest target. I left those two attacks to show the difference between easy and hard target. I also do abuse here the ufo physics of the planes so it's not like I was really holding up against him. Once again, I enjoyed what that New York was doing immensely. Just well played.

When I will get home I will check the replay folder and game itself. But I do think in this situation stuff like "soft aiming" (just pressing alt and leading target) is kinda required to really see what was happening. Will see how it will look. I will be playing with recording on for couple of days and I will try to hunt the good BBs anyway.

I actually totally forgot about replays. But carrier replays are filled with graphical glitches, placement of planes or ships can be incorrect etc. I don't think using replay function will be good enough to show something like that. Also recorded game feed is showing all my orders so I it is simply the best tool. Maybe I will be lucky soon? I do hope so. Tier V Kongos and New Yorks I am counting on you.

Yeah, that's why we will have fixes to MM. Also Zuiho will see some nerfs. Less attack planes. More fighter presence in the air. Don't worry, nerfs will come. Nice results. If new players get results like that after so few games then WG might decide to actually increase the skill celling. Good job, I would love to see that. Be patient and look for people who actually dodge and make themselves a difficult target. Learn from them, some of them can really mess with you. Hope you will be a difficult one when the other CV will hunt you. Edit. CVs truly start at tier VI and at VIII have their proper form.