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Yeah thanks man, that really helps this thread...

Yeah and this is the tipicall you arent experienced enough answer. Doesnt make your post more valuable... but to answer your question: Restrcting DDs to a certian number, lets call it 3 for this example leads you to the point of dicision which ones: 3 Shimas, 3 Gearing, 3 Khaba? You know the numbers and you may agree that the point of a gearing is a different attackstyle and gameplay then a shimakaze or Khaba. All ideas (limited torpedos, limited dds) leads to the point of passively buffing another class. Mostly BBs, because Cas arent a counter to BB, if you only have 3 dds then this leads to a MM composition like this: 1 cv, 3 dd= 4 of 15 spots gone, means 6 BB and 5 Ca per round? This would defnitly lead to matches that are passive, not moving or in other words boring. In other words: every class and potential ship should have a counter and one thats played. For the most part this is done effectively, the only ship that stands out is the shimakaze: got lowest concelmeant, highest speed (-->faster then gearing) and torpedos with the highest dmg, which nearly no hip can risk getting hit. What maybe helps is radar, the counter would be Cv but no one is playing cv. Although cvs are really good (stat and anything else like) but only a tenth of all players of wows are playing cvs... And this leads to the situation where the easiest to play T10 ships looks overpowered. Sorry for wall of text :p

Restricting DDs to a limited number per side is just the wrong way to go... Players should adapt a Playstyle where dds and torps shouldnt bother them to much. Maybe Radar can do something about it, but in the end as long as yamatos stand still driving backwards at some point something is wrong there. You need to drive at least 1m predicatble to catch a full torp swarm, so maybe there is the problem?

Mogami is okay... with the range buff it will be good. People should adapt the point of view range and captain skill which let you decide to engage or not to engage. Mogami used to be: Throw HE at everything that pops up, stay behind CA. But telling from Ibuki and Zao this leads to a wrong gameplay.

Can you clarify why a Murmansk (Omaha C Hull) is better then Omaha? Does the stats only show the fact that the player using the ship massively impacts the stats? Same goes for MK/Mogami/Atago/New Orleans; all ships are pretty close, I mean 8k DMG are 1-2 salvos with full dmg. That from my point of view is very well balanced. And as a personal hint: to play the mogami with her play style to her strenghts will impact your ibuki gameplaye. Since the ibuku is just that: A slightly better mogami with 203mm guns, more range, more hitpoints, healing included. So when if not on mogami a player should learn to play these ships and adapt the style?

cant see your problem..,. you got plenty cruisers, most of them german. So good hydro search and since they are in divisions they can work together to conquer the dds. For me you should have won this.

XVM würd auch wenig bringen in Wows... Ist bei WOT schon mehr oder weniger Sinnbefreit.... Bei Wows gilt: Jedes Schiff kann etwas und anderes nicht. Dazu kommt die Map und das MM. Aus dieser Komposition an Dingen resultiert angepasst Fahrweise. DH: Wenn ich das Video von Ichase sehe frage ich mich was er da treibt... Er spielt gegen DDs, in einer Demoines: Erster Move: Man fahre in das offene Wasser und wundere sich wieso überall Torpedos auftauchen.... Das ist irgendwie dämlich, anstatt die eigenen DDS (Fletcher+ Fubu) zu benutzen um die anderen DDs zu spotten, Torpedos zu spotten und als Team zu gewinnen. Wäre der Konvoi defensiv in eine Form von Deckung durch Inseln gefahren (zb unten auf Ice) mit einer Fubu vorne dran, dann hätten sie eine gute Chance gehabt das Ding zu gewinnen. Aber so? Naja dumm halt...

Yeah but Atago points on: 203mm guns, can torp invis if used with a 15 point captain, more torps per side better angle, bullet travel time is nearly same, Atago got more health trough consumable. Only real benefit from MK is ROF and range. This combined with the fact that Mk gets spotted early nahh Atago seems to be the better ship from my point of view. But as always it depends on player and captain. ( I will let AA stay out of this)

Im pretty serious, grinding myself trough some series brought up some more examples. Like Tashkent (which is pretty bad stock) or as you stated colorado (with A hull and 0 zero AA sometimes a pain to play). For me the most valid point in this discussion is that the 203mm guns wasn't and upgrade prepatch and Wg just corrected this. The 203mms are now the way to go all the way from Furutaka to Zao. The is now Mogami He Spam Op anymore and that is kind of correct. Im not saying that the mogami might need a buff to have same/more range then T7 myoko but I hope Wg will adress this if needed. Only true point is the OP Atago which is clearly the best T8 cruiser out there.

I really cant see your point. Nearly every ship is "bad" when its played stock compared to the one you had one Tier lower fully Upgraded. Mogami is a cruiser not a floating citadel (there are other ships who got citadelled more often eg: Hipper, MK) Then you have 155m turrets which have one way to work: Use stealth of the ship, sneak close and open up the right thing with the 155m Turrets and 5x3 shoots per round. Which by the way is the most of every ship, no ship can match the bullets of the stock mogami. This is how you can play her, once upgraded with guns, hull and range she is more like the atago althoug I think the Atago is right now the best cruiser. More health, same guns, same range, more stealth but as everyone is whining about the Op MK..... I'm really in the state of well done WG.... But one may disagree. And just to state one more: The Russian cruisers looks like fragile to play, a Cruiser with 20 secs of reload? Will be fun shooting at DDs.

Aber schön wie sich alles im Kreis dreht Echt cool. Ich hab übrigens den höchsten Schaden im Schnitt (MK, Moga, Ata) mit der Atago. Was sagt uns das? Ich sollte dringend einen Nerv Atago Thread eröffnen... Seufz und alle Prems in einen Haufen zu werfen und eine Yubari needs Buff mit einem T8 Kreuzer zu vergleichen ist gelinde gesagt witzig. Die Yubari ist auf T4 unterwergs wo RNG und Anfänger sowieso das Spielgeschehen sehr starkt beinflussen. Das ist auf T6-10 (wo die Mk rumfährt) deutlich reduziert... Aber um es nochmal deutlich zu sagen: Die Mogami ist okay mit 203er Geschützen (zumal alles drum rum Myoko und Ibuki das gleiche Kaliber usw benutzen). Die MK wird auch nicht übermächtig, da sie einfach deutlich mehr Schaden fängt..

Gute Güte.... Was ein Thread: Alles sinnvolle ist gesagt: Der Buff war nötigt, damit die MK da bleibt wo sie ist: Ein riesiger fragiler Kreuzer, mit guter AA, allerdings einem Tarnwert von negativ und einer Zitadelle vom Nord zum Südpol. Was ihr hier alle noch nicht erwähnt habt ist das Thema Tarnung und Sichtbarkeit... Die Mogami und Atago gehen deutlich später auf, sodass sie sich aussuchen können wann sie welchen Gegner bekämpfen wollen. Das man mit der Mogami dazu nicht mehr ab 16km bis 19km mit den 155er unspotted es HE regnen lassen kann ist nur sinnvoll... Und weil es auch jeder selber finden kann mal was für die Statistik: MK mit AFT und Turmdrehrate, dazu Beschussalarm. Mogami mit AFT, Drehrate 210er und Beschussalarm Performen also gleich... Wir werden sehen ob der Nerf der Drehrate die Mogami weit zurück wirft. Oder ob die erhöhte ROF der MK gut tut.

As far as the AA Changes go, the ships will be redesigned to have an AA like MK. A bit long range and rest at middlerange, speaking of 7 and 5km. MK provides good AA help even for other ships, hopefully this will be point in Cruisers catching up in the support role. But nothing is in Stone

Why is anyone stopping after 260 pearls? The weekly contains: Winning, doing Xp along and sinking ships. Normally I do the weekly on a monday evening If you just play the game 1-2 days a week or let me refraise this: A few hours, then your doing then pearls. Since they aren't capped, no body is really stopping, apart from people who stops playing. AND let me say this once: We need 10 Million pearls, anything else won't bring anything up. No ship for no one

Was ihr bei der Reichweite nicht vergessen dürft ist das damit auf alle Reichweiten der Winkel nach oben geht. Sodass Citadellen im Nahkampf mit anderen Kreuzer weniger werden. In meinen Augen eine Verschlechterung des ganzen Schiffes. Taugt dann nur um auf 19km HE zu spammen und dafür ist sie ansich nicht gebaut. Insofern würde ich eher mit den 16km und dem Tarnwert arbeiten, zugegeben das ist auf Ice zb. schwierig aber möglich. Ansonsten bleibt nur zu sagen, dass es auch für die Mogami/Zao 2 Spielweisen gibt. Mit Range und HE oder gezielt Nah mit AP.