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Are the WG staff retarded? so they fixed a MINOR BUG that mostly affected a cruiser when it would get with HIGH CHANCES citadeled, and MADE A BUG WHERE ONLY OVERPENS OR BOUNCEOFFS IN THE SAME TIME/SALVO are possible on under 200mm armor in under 10k range - damn so its like we fix a bug that affect 1-5% with a one that affects 50%. You rarely could citade a cruiser when he wasnt showing broadside so it was clear that the bug worked only in rare situations, the problem is that the NEW SUPPOSLY BETTER armor logic is FOR NOW COMPLEATLY FLAWED AND BUGGED as instead of scoring real citadels where you should (shooting at 150mm belt of a cruiser with 400m should always equall citadel - as there is no chances it can hold it or even bounce off - the trick should be to hit it), but for now its just overpenneing and bouncing off in the same [edited]time as seen on many YT movies from training roums. While on the same time even 25mm armor bounces off a 400mm shell (had it happen already quite few times in 3 days) what is even more absurd then it eve was, where for example BB's armor extreamly rarely bouncess off a smaller cal shell = even bigger bug in armor counting. Congrats they [edited] up compleatly game mechanics for some cruisers (that used AP), almost every BB and partly carriers with the dogfighting commander. Seriously... what a joke and spit in the face at the same time. [edited]that no more any $ fo WG for next 6 months for shure for that crap(if i even manage to keep playing that long with the current retarded balance of Alpha version they made)

- Accuracy max range mod doesnt work on EVERY SHIP, not only on tirpizt, - permanently bouncing off shells on all ranges and from ALL SHIP TYPES from BB's to Minekazes bouncing off NAGATOS AP (reaching avarage of 30% per game on IJN bb's and my personal max 31from 62 shells bounced in 1 match making it practicly 50%), - game loads significantly longer for battles to it then pre patch

Not rly, most ppl who were able to correctly aim at medium ranges for citadels on BB's were the SUPERIOR ones on LONG range also - and if they say there is off (like me) on every range (specially the ones 12k under) then it is (as movies show). I have experience with tier 5-8 bb's (well amagi i use barely for coops, but on my other account where i use pure USN ships i have already Iowa unlocked) and for example my avarage acc for nagato is 31% (so that counts all ranges) and i can tell you the dispersion is off on every range (so its not only the acc module not working) but the penetration values also on every range, as pre patch i was able to citadel all tier 5-6-7 ships on long range, pretty decently. The YT movies also show it. If you would do the math then a cruiser of tier 7+ has around 100-150% more chances to start a fire in 30s time then a BB. So no... HE wont work for BB's also.

It seems for me (in last 2 days) that the moments where i COULD get a citadel i mostly get a bounce off - maybe its a system bug that partly reads citadels wrong

Actually if you look closer, you see around every 2nd-3rd shell under 10k bounce off and not overpen = huge armor counting system bug, as there was/is and shouldnt be a way a broadsiding cruiser bounces off a shell of 410mm with a 150mm belt armor specially with 0 angling (and its one of the most accurate BB's in Game from tier 9 vs tier 7). At over 10k the citadels seemed mostly RNG based, and not skill based, as on one cruisers you get 2 on one ship, sometimes none and sometimes one, to it you have to add these are immobile targets what never happens. Shows the Ap counting system is bugged as [edited]

Your seriously joking i hope, as with such shots number as used for the mogami you would sunk 1-2 bb's in that time. To it the ship was at one of more optimal range to shoot and NOT MOVING AT ALL. This just means that cruisers now can tank more effectively the dmg then a Battleship (like many movies on YT proved it already from 2 days). This clearly shows that AP ammo is currently fucked, not to talk about dispersion mechanic bugs

I said it, the acc mod shows not difference in stats when you mount/demount it so it is probably broken, but it doesnt at all say why ppl need 4-6 salvos to take down a 50% hp cruiser in 6k range as every shots in 6k gets almsot 200m dispersion - you can find on YT a guys with tirpizt (in stats seems the only one who's AP didnt get affected) needed 4 salvos to shoot down a 5-6k away cleaveland who is on 50% hp as every shell has around 150m dispersion. Currently like already ppl tested in training rooms, its impossible to get a citadel with a BB on a cruiser that is under 10k range - the AP is clearly broken My record citadel number in pvp game was 9 on BB's so i would say that maybe the stupid bounce offs were supposed to be citadels to some extend but dont get counted as such ty to bugs in system as the bounce off ratios currently hang around 30-40% if you aim precisely at ships belts (cruiser belts inclouded). Edit - or like you saw the movie in other thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzu1cpd6t00 in the time you shoot the bot NOT MOVING mogami you can easy kill a BB and take down at least half of other probing that AP is bugged and dispersion also (as there is no LOGICAL way a BB should have 150m dipsersion on 5k and 200 on 20k)

today i got 15k dmg and 3 fires from tier 7 IJN carrier on my kongo (yeah proper MM, had 2nd most shot down planes in team in a tier 5 vs tier 7 carrier ). Maybe it was the tier difference but hell 3 fires on start from a bomber run on a turning 30kts kongo (as the bomb spread now is seriously easy to use) and so many fires also seems way to OP (especially how absurd dmg now fires do).

Considering that you have only 57 games on BB's it doesnt mean much that you cant notice a difference, since you barely played any of them (i have almost over 300-400), but like i said in other post, and players that actually knew how to reliably target ship parts in BB's admited, the patch compleatly ruined any form of ship targeting parts in BB's (inclouding WG supported streamers) - last 2 days every class off bb's had almost 10% avarage dmg drop off (so either every better BB player took off, or the whole game mechanics of BB isnt functioning at all). Devastating medals were rewarded only on clueless unaware players who afk yacht showing broadsides to BB's - it is supposed to be like that just like destroyers get devastating for clueless idiots taking full broadside of torps. Also lower AP funkctionality (practicly abmyssal) means that other ships using HE have increased/more chances to use it so it so HE status isnt currently to be judged because of AP underperformance - to many variables with AP changed that influenced HE effectivenes. Cruisers (like aoba) didnt needed a single buff considering that if your not clueless you can solo a BB with a cruiser with i would say 50/50 chances pre patch (thats why my Aoba has avarage dmg like my BB's of tier 5-6) (and im not a cruiser main player).

Yeap it seems they screwed it allright compleatly earlier had 2-3 citadels per match avarage on Nagato/fuso even on kongo... now i cant citadel on a cruiser (1 citadel in 20 matches) and even on BB, where Minekaze bounce off my AP shells from Nagato from 6k range

The worst patch i saw in this game... BB line compleatly ruined, carriers partly ruined ty to bugs of dogfighting, only usefull ships are now cruisers and dd's making the game return to alpha state practicly. Playing tier 6-7 is barely economicly possible. Games load way slower and have more jams then ever for me and almsot everyone i asked in game chat (probably ty to the new armor ect calculating system or some other crap). The blue line probably the only half way positive think from whole patch. And Admiral_noodle you probably didnt notice changes in ACC on bb's as you have relative low hit ratio and low dmg done on BB's of 6+ tiers (i have such on ships that i used pre ACC buff in september - or what month was it), currently when i come into the game i play mostly Nagato and have 31% acc ratio in randoms and 28% in rankeds as there you were mostly matches of 8+ dd's (if you had similar one to me, you would notice the huge changes - specially in precision striking for citadels).

Congrats on braking the AP bb shells. in 20 games avarage of over 30% bounce offs from Kongo/Fuso/Nagato Max in game from 141 shots i hit 62 and 30 of them bounced off (thats almost 50% bounce off ratio) and the epitome was when AP shells fired fro my NAGATO bounced off from MINEKAZE at 6k range. GJ WG no more doublons or premium till you fix the IJN bb's dispersion and AP dmg. I had only 1 game where the stuff worked normally and had 12 % bounce off ratio (and it was only one game where i could do ANY DMG). I've seen myokos taking 4 salvos on 8k range of perfect broadsides and 5-6 shells bounced off from them every time (he was on 50% when i started to shoot him). You dont believe write in YOUTUBE and watch how a guy in tirpizt from 5-6k cant FINISH OFF a NOT MOVING cleaveland in 4 salvos while he perfectly aims the waterline and is actually a skilled player. Never seen such a joke like this patch... Do you guys even have any kind of Quality control or TEST TEAM? Go into a test room and try to citadel a cruiser its [edited]impossible with the [edited] changes you guys made (and im pretty decent with them since my Nagato has 31% hit ratio on games and had avarage of 2-3 citadels per match). BTW MAX RANGE ACC MOD UPGRADE doesnt seem to works as no matter if you put it on or off the dispersion doesnt change in stats !!!!!!! And the new nice part is 2-3 fires from each bomb planes run on enemy (like we all know fires are balanced !)

Yeah i wish they addded some fast, as today i played around 10 games (6 of them were tier 7) won 7 of them and got 600k made from all the games. 1 game in Amagi and it ended up with -80k loss... So tier 7 seem barely worth playing if you dont want to constnatly play doublons (and i wont pay for the crapthey did to bb's and the AP ammo)

Yeah i didnt noticed such big chance on US ships (as their ammo probably differs a little from IJN) but IJN bb's have lower ACC (probably partly ty to the MAX range ACC mod not working as putting it on and off doesnt change dispersion values) and the bounce off rate is absurd... Nagato or Amagi shells bounce off form everything (like fuso or kongo) inclouding in case of Nagato even from Minekaze. Had only one game where i had 12% bounce off rate on Nagato did over 110k dmg easy, 9 others were 30-40% bounce off rates and one had 49% bounce off rate (where my hit rate was 42% in that game) and couldnt even hold 50k avarage dmg... Absurd that you cant even 1shot a stupid myoko player who afk shows broadside in 8k range to you (needed 3 salvos in nagato as he was at 50% HP). Where i normally made 2-3 citadels avarage per game now i cant even score 1... Absurd. Wonder if WG has any quality controll or testing team (as it seems ppl warned them on forums on test server around half of this crap) If they dont admit they fucked up and fix it fast there wont be any premium or doublons money for them or quitting the game as right now its just hilarious

thats the problem, 4 salvos needed to kill and AFK boting cleaveland from 6k range... Its a joke that WG served us here (and he was lucky he was the highest tier in this match, and didnt had IJN BB who for most players have currently around 30+% bounce off rate from everything inclouding dd's). To it guys check out the MAX range ACC module, if you take it out or put in the dispersion doesnt change at all - so it seems this mod doesnt work at all.

Well the fires are annoying as always, maybe more as AP from BB's doesnt seem to work properly and they live in situations they shouldnt (like showing broadside tor 1-2 minutes in 8k range to a BB and not dying ty to 20-30 bounce offs per game). So im not shure if its the HE per se, or the AP made weaker - as avarage bounce off from IJN bb's on tier 5-6-7 i use mostly had around 10-15% now its 30-40% per match (record was 49% yes every 2nd hit bounced off from cruisers/bb's/ and EVEN FROM MINEKAZE and that was a shell from NAGATO so 410mm)

Tested in 2 days... 30% avarage bounce off rate (incoulding bounce off's from broadisiding moyko to my nagato on 8k range). my avarage dmg from last 20 games was around 15-20% under normal avarage of the pre changes BB's (tier 5-6-7 tested till now). Its absurd... Had easy avarage 1-3 citadels per game... Now i cant even make 1 per game with the flying randomly and perma bouncing off shells from BB's. Today i got a nagato shell bounce off's from a MINEKAZE. To it looking at stats, seems the mod increasing the accuracy on MAX range doesnt seem to work (or at least it doesnt show up). GJ WG you [edited] up the game nicely now

Dmg =/= win rate as you see, so dmg isnt the only aspect to look when balancing out classes if you judge how good ship is only by dmg then your terribly wrong. And it seems you even fail to check every stats as its 15+128 in nagato alone but well i know ppl like to look at part statistics. Btw considering your own words... low player pool means stats can be not precise enough - yet you still claim one is much stronger then other only by jugding the notprecise stats in case of DD's... I would wait a little to see more players get them (and US dd line is harder to grind then IJN one has also affect on player pool). And i dont know, maybe you know few good players in cruisers, but i know only one for now and in 128 games ranked like i said i played i saw like 5-10 good cruisers max, thats why even stopped to buy any higher tier ships, as its pointless to go further where the classes are even less balanced. Ofc in higher tiers there will be some other good players, but still i doubt by miracle i will find a gazillion of good cruiser players where i almost didnt noticed any in 700-800 games (and considering im divisioning with other iter 7's im fairly often on fuso or nagato im matched vs tier 8-9's and i still see craploads of afk yachting idiots cruisers in 10-12k range showing broadsides - hah even yesterday i managed ot 100-0 a mogami as he was afk yachting to my nagato on 12k range). Damn i even had the "pleasure" to face Yamatos in a fuso and nagato ty to the stupid match making divisions. And if you actually read my post better then you checked my stats (yeah i know its hard to click 2 buttons) you would actually understand what i wrote in my post and why it is that cruisers are in such heavy position currently (yes ill copy paste it to you "It seems that cruisers on later tiers seem to suffer of WG not able to balance carriers and that they are forced to pick 1 side role from 2 they got on tier 6+. This means isntead of allowing them to do what they did on early tiers, the long range spam dd's have free line to do it as they know cruisers will have AA consumable for 99% chances." And no for now on my NA account i didnt notice any shimekazes being op (as carriers on NA server manage to scout for them) - but i know few playes team playing is OP. Edit - btw cruisers are meant to run from bb's dont you think? its enough they have better AA and DD fighitng capabalities, giving them more power would only make everyone use cruisers. I would actually see with pleasure the dmg kept (maybe less balanced around fire and more for HE dmg per shot) but have access in the same time to hydro-acustic and AA consumable and not have to choose, as making cruiser choose one side role from 2 in current state is what makes them for me feel so mediacore = no by beaing a jack of all trades like cruiser you cant be super in them all, where bb's and dd's excell in 1 type for it.

Niceand i agree with most of what OP said but i have a single note... more players =/= automaticly best/superior ships. For example Gearing even if has low player pool (lower then IJN) currently holds better stats yet you say shimekaze is better and stronger... I would say that the player base number is not only connected to how powerfull a ship is but also to how easy it is to use the ships potential. Ofc its easier to spam 15 torps from 10-15k range and wait for dmg then for example balance on visibility range and shoot ships while dodging shots. For that reason i would say it is why the longer ranged torp dd's are more popular - its relative easy to be effective with it. Its exacly like in cleaveland... the stats are very similar, yet it has 2-3x the player pool of aoba why? because an idiot can abuse the stupid fire mechanics by spamming, where if you know where cleavelands citadel is, you can hit it as easy as other cruisers. Stats yes show that Yamato is probably stronger then Montana (well he has superior armor, higher cal by desing ect) and Midway is way OP over Hakiryu and Zao with his invisibility shooting and way shorter shell flying time is stronger then Des Moins, but i wouldnt dare to say for now that Gearing (specially with the incomming buffs if he actually needs them is the question) is inferior to Shimekaze. For cruisers... i would like to see more smarter cruisers players, as from what i see currently noticed, you can see many smarter dd players, many smarter bb players, but the smart cruiser player pool is almost non existant (it was actually existant in open beta, damn in 130 ranked games i've seen like 5-10 smart cruiser player and the rest was afk yachters or idiots) dont know why cruisers currently purposly ignore dd and just chase after bb's but i wouldnt say its the class fault but its the players who dont know what they are doing. There should be more information about what cruiser should do (first focus DD's and not get in 12k under broadsiding to a BB!!!!!!!!!), and maybe make the fire mechanics weaker for more HE dmg and maybe little heals on medium tiers also (so cruisers are not base alone on 2-3 fires from 1 salvo luck or 75 hits in 1 match with HE and not a single fire like i had on Aoba). Another way of this would be to allow tier 6+ cruisers to have both hydro-acustic and the AA active in the same time, as pre tier 6 cruisers are mostly dedicated to hunt DD's are carriers are balanced to that tier, but with later tiers carrier start to become OP (even match making is forced around them) and thus cruisers have to sacrifice the hydroacustic for AA consumable, making their DD fighting power considerably lower (and again we are stuck as bb's with equall or superior AA not having the same effective AA - forcing increased spread on enemy planes / late game carriers out of balance). Currently adds to all these also that cruisers are fairly nimble but they lack the concealment of dd's so they are harder to play if your not vigilant (and most players in low/med tiers are afk yachters = bane of cruisers and lower player pool in higher tiers). It seems that cruisers on later tiers seem to suffer of WG not able to balance carriers and that they are forced to pick 1 side role from 2 they got on tier 6+. This means isntead of allowing them to do what they did on early tiers, the long range spam dd's have free line to do it as they know cruisers will have AA consumable for 99% chances.

Well not that horrible as half of the from ship shot down planes by US side (from statistics ive read), went on count of bofors in pacific war, while other half to orelions and other AA weaponry - and japans 25mm's outproformed US 25mm ones the main difference was the planes armor and the number that US had to fix their losses, where Japans didnt. It was pure Economical power that made US win while Japan struggled to even use 75% of their fleet already on start of war ty to fuel/ammo shortages because of the ongoing wars - there was 0% chance for IJN to win and the plan actually implemented fast devastating attack and peace talks after it. Yes Iowa had better AA mostly ty to superior range of bofors (who werent actually made/invented by US) that made it harder for planes to attack making them loosing more effectivenes, the IJN AA was good enough (even considering the orders that AA was to be used at 50% of effective distance to save ammo everytime exept big battles), for that Yamato had more then enough speed and vastly superior fire power, accuracy (as it scored 3rd longest hit on moving ship after german's and brits from what i remember - yes US had vastly inferior accuracy even with radar when comapred to other nations), armor, range of fire. Yet you cant rly compare Iowa to Yamato as Iowa was mostly designed to counter Kongo class fast battleships, and in fact Iowa was a fast battleship or a mix between it and normal battleship, where Yamato was pure blood battleship that when he has Air cover he just goes in and kills everything - like a heavy tank in ground warfare, or practicly a mobile base, that were send in to push into an objective or force enemy to leave a fleet nearby just to counter such a ship) Ty to IJN lacking resources to replanish planes/crews/losses/resources, US dominated that front and won the war (probably a good thing for us). Dont forget that bb's engages still happeneds on islands until 1 side didnt compleatly won air supremacy, and then you have to count how many ships -types/classes and planes that were needed to sink 1 yamato with few dd's company (2nd wave alone had over 340 planes) - that just shows how well/better designed IJN ships were (and that is not only in Yamato case but most ships). edit - yamatos turrets frontal turret armor was so thick and well made steel (even if lower purity then the US used, but still more sturdy just like german steel) that it was unpetrable exept for point blank shots on max 0,5deg angle or 35km shots of plunging fire hitting it direcly in its lowest effective thickness - the test were made at 1947r or so with an ammo even more heavy (iowa's type guns) then aviable in war. btw a side note... Iowas didnt even rly seen any battle in WW2 so... draw the conclusion.

In almsot every case im the one leading other bb's in my BB and i almost always were the top or at top of team... Currently if you know what your doing, you will get quite plenty XP if you know when to push, but it still can be refined for example by time of tanking/surviviing under heavy fire if you have your team nearby ofc. Stupid 1 vs 7 dives wouldnt be rewarded as there would be no allies near by - something similar in mechanics to spotting. Also current maps allow you mostly to get in and hide fast enough behind a rock or angle your self frontally and tank out with a BB (specially the one with the 2 points in mid surrounded by islands from all sides - forgot the name). Most ppl who in ranked stay away afk shooting actually get rather poor scores and lose the games if you can kill from range enemy fast enough (specially in US bb's). And yes make the queye times longer but for [edited]sake at rank 13 up its only matches with 8+ dd's... its annoying if you play a BB ect, and the hell my avarage dmg on nagato dropped from 74k to 65k only ty to full teams being dd's. I can wait 5-10 minutes for a game in a BB if i have to but seriously the epitome was 11 dd's in a match i had (and i was only BB!!, on the other hand earlier i had 10 bb's in a match).

Main problem is the same rewards for winning a match no matter if you carried or were the one who got carried. That means that some lucky guys who have skill of a 10 played game noobs get carried way to high with the low player pool. First thing to balancing out the rankeds is actually starting to put in higher rewards for the guys who hard carry a match (win or lose) and smaller rewards for the one who are useless. For that to happen there needs to be balanced out xp for dmg in case of cruisers/dd's and XP gain from scouting (making ships visible). Second thing this mode needs is something like League of Legends had... Individual ELO(stars no matter the name) so when your team wins the guys with the most XP get more stars/elo ect while the guys with 69xp in winning team get almost nothing. The same would apply for losing team, so the guy who hardcarried the losing team loses less then the brainless feeders. Dont forget even if the match is teambased, we still should differate individual performance in such matches and that will reduce the number of idiots that got carried by luck way way way to high.

Ok he made mistake, then he shouldnt whine about it on forums, he has at least 3 times the chance to not get into the wall and not take any dmg as not getting to it, he was just greedy for 1 salvo and didnt want to go back, he payed, so i dont get the reason for his whining... Its miraculous that ITS ALWAYS A NOT INTENDED MISTAKE that ppl wallslide for hours LOL (and by the angle you see he would slide it for long if not the change that slowed him) - but its funny how only few ppl defend it, the few guys probably also like to excuse their wallsliding via mistakes LOL. Im not believing the not intended at all in the thing i saw on this YT movie. Next time less greed and more thinking and we will have 1 wallslider less in game (as i report every wallgrinder i see in matches)

If it makes ppl stop like in the YT movie, the it works like intended !! i have over 700-800 games so far and i was border sliding like 10-20 times max as i always avoid it and try to fight fair (no mods removing fog/aimbots/map mods helping out/better scope mods) and i will love the garbage to get stuck and offer free citadels !!. I see many ppl exploiding this crapand most of it do purposly, just like the guy on the movi choosed to swim purposly as he had at least 3 times the chance to turn away pre border but was greedy for a salvo. L2p and l2 watch on map - problem solved.