El2aZeR

Considering how hilariously bad the accuracy of BBs was, pretty good. Did you perhaps not pay attention? BBs don't form battle-lines and exchange broadsides at long range in this game either. It's really amusing to see you digging your own grave deeper with every post.

*perform better stat-wise (damage, k/d, planes shot down etc). It's hardly disputable. But yeah, let's leave it at that.

Well, no, because a CV fills an entirely different role than a DD. CVs will always perform better than other ships in terms of stats because that's essentially what they were designed to do, to put out loads of damage as compensation for their inability to do other things. You need to interpret stats instead of just comparing them blindly. Honestly, at this point I believe you're trolling me.

I'd actually encourage it as it makes people shoot at your belt armor and getting bounces instead of your massive superstructure and getting normal pen damage.

- SMS Pommern sunk via torpedo by DD HMS Onslaught - SMS Szent Istvan sunk via torpedo by motor boats (lol) - CA HMS Norfolk destroyed Bismarck's FCS, rendering her combat ineffective (well, even more so after her rudder was jammed) - Hiei crippled by gunfire from US cruisers and DDs - Scharnhorst's FCS crippled by CA HMS Norfolk (again), limiting her combat capability - Fuso destroyed by torpedoes from US DDs at Surigao - Yamashiro crippled by torpedoes at the same battle Considering the list of capital ships sunk by BBs is about the same size (and that BBs in general didn't fight too many surface actions), this is actually a considerable tally. The vast majority of BBs were lost to submarine attack. Considering torpedoes were also carried by destroyers and it has been proven time and time again that BBs were ineffective in engaging such small, maneuverable ships I'd very much question the "superiority" of BBs. Which is kinda analogous with the game? I want to deprive the enemy team of capping potential, so I strike DDs. In WoWs there are no single ships, only fleet actions. And Operation Ten-Go clearly shows that in fleet actions CVs went after DDs (for whatever reasons). Meanwhile you stated that CVs going after DDs is absurd. Against single DDs, maybe, but that doesn't resemble the game, now, doesn't it?

Ah, makes sense. Problem here is that you're comparing 2 entirely different ship classes. CV WR even gets fudged because there are only 2 CV lines in the game + mirror MM, so it only shows that one CV is superior to the other, nothing more, nothing less. (Hiryu vs Hiryu = always 50% WR, thus Hiryu vs Ranger is the only thing that influences it) A more reasonable comparison would be this: Let's ignore the tech tree ships because potatoes be potatoes as you've pointed out. That still leaves Kami & Fujin as the best performing premium DDs at T5, despite Kamikaze R actually being one of the most widely distributed premium ships. And that's against the Gremy, which is hailed as one of the most op ships of the op ships. So even stat-wise you can't really justify a buff.

The smaller dispersion comes from the slightly smaller range. It should actually be about the same. Someone else (don't remember who) however has explained to me that the spacing of her guns makes her accuracy worse or sth similar. Tbh I think her accuracy is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, but maybe pre-buff Colorado and NC have hardened me in that regard. The 420's don't get better accuracy afaik. I use the 406's with reload module to offset the bad accuracy a little.

No doubt about it, but considering the current situation I wouldn't buff Fujin/Kami in any way. Heck, even back then Fujin/Kamikaze weren't weak, it was just that Minekaze was too strong. Uhm, you kinda lost me here. What ship are you referring to?

Kinda a tough issue because it'd promote camping at long distances, but on the other hand it would make some BBs that are underperforming (basically all US BBs) very powerful and the overperforming ones (basically all KM BBs) weaker. Personally I'd just give US BBs the ability to fire at half charge so they can actually take advantage of their excellent plunging fire capabilities.

I simply think that Fujin/Kamikaze don't deserve the extra AA considering how monstrously powerful they are. Also there are exactly 2 ships equipped with radar that they can meet in their MM spread (both premiums), everything else they can both outspot and outpace, making her low HP and gun power largely irrelevant. I believe trading garbage AA (let's not kid ourselves, Minekaze isn't exactly that much better) for even more garbage AA but amazing torps is a extremely good deal. Really, the CV player in me wouldn't mind Fujin/Kami getting their AA buffed to Minekaze levels, because it'd be of no consequences to me regardless. My sense of balancing however would be rather offended (although to be fair it's offended by a lot of things WG decides to do).

Indeed, you were stating how BBs were superior surface combatants. Something that is clearly not true. How about this, then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go "The first wave of U.S. carrier planes were spotted by a Japanese lookout on the bridge at 12:32. [...] At 12:46, a torpedo hit Yahagi directly in her engine room, killing the entire engineering room crew and bringing her to a complete stop. Yahagi was hit by at least six more torpedoes and 12 bombs by succeeding waves of air attacks. The Japanese destroyer Isokaze attempted to come to Yahagi's aid but was attacked and heavily damaged, and sank sometime later. Yahagi capsized and sank at 14:05. [...] Also, during the first attack wave, Japanese destroyers Hamakaze and Suzutsuki were heavily damaged and taken out of the battle. Hamakaze sank later." Clearly the first wave could've just put their ordinance on Yamato instead going after her escorts first, right?

Amazing news, guys! Real life is absurd! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Edsall_(DD-219) "The Japanese surface vessels (2 cruisers, 2 battleships) fired 1,335 shells at Edsall that afternoon with no more than one or two hits, which failed to stop the destroyer. Vice Admiral Nagumo ordered airstrikes: 26 Type 99 divebombers (Aichi D3A) (kanbaku) in three groups (chutai) took off from the carriers Kaga (8), Hiryū (9), and Sōryū (9). The dive bombers were led by Lieutenants Ogawa, Kobayashi, and Koite respectively. Their 250 kg (550 lb) bombs immobilised Edsall." And yes, while Samar was just a single engagement, it showed thanks to it's extreme situation how utterly worthless BBs actually were when pitted against fast moving/maneuvering targets even at extremely close ranges.

This is funny because BBs aren't even among the top targets of CVs anymore. Taffy 3 would like to have a word with you.

Says Gearing has a total of 142,9 dps. Did you perhaps miss a few numbers or were you just referring to a specific set of guns? Well, no, because it becomes a question of overall balance, not just AA. Fujin and Kamikaze were already spared from the nerf that hit the Minekaze and thus remain some of the most powerful DDs of their tier and one of the most powerful DDs tier for tier in general. Heck, they're actually op as hell, being only surpassed by the Gremy. Bad AA is a good trade-off for all the advantages they get, yet you want do away with one of their only weaknesses? Really? I mean sure, you could continue to demand buffs to some of the most powerful ships in the game, writing it off as your opinion, but then people will start to question whether or not you remotely understand how "balance" is even spelled.

Uhm, where do you get these dps numbers from? Because that's not how AA works. AA is basically a roll against plane survivability every 5 / 0,5 / 0,1 seconds depending on the gun. I recommend reading this guide: http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/91094-how-do-aa-guns-work/page__pid__2227343#entry2227343 Also, you want to buff the Fujin? One of the most powerful DDs tier for tier?

Here's a guide I'd recommend: http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/93832-ship-review-mouse-in-the-iowa/ A more humorous one: Iowa is extremely vulnerable, she's possibly the most vulnerable BB in the game tier for tier. This is why you should NEVER actually attempt to lead a charge or tank for your team (unless ofc you have no other choice), because once you're committed there is no way out for you until either your enemy or you are dead. She does have one advantage however: Amazing concealment. Use her like a cruiser, keep your distance from the enemy (preferably between your min concealment and 15km) and leave the tanking to more durable BBs. Use the dispersion module to make your guns deadly accurate at that range and enjoy fading from view between every salvo. Use islands as cover to protect your flanks (even cruisers can delete you in 1-2 salvos if you present your broadside up close). Use opportunities to flank yourself if they present themselves. Always keep track of your enemies to avoid nasty surprises. Playing like this will work as often as it will fail since it's very much dependent on your team to make the right decisions. Iowa can lead charges, she can bow tank, she's just not very good at it and therefore lacks carry potential.

There is a clear difference however: Most complaints about RL came from the skilled playerbase playing most, if not all ship classes (thus it is very much wrong to categorize us as "DDummies"), including some members of well known clans, with constructive arguments as to why this skill shouldn't exist. Meanwhile most complaints about BBs being underpowered come from people who only play BBs and have no idea how to manage fires, dodge torps, etc. I can't remember a single thread about BBs being too weak with a single reasonable argument in them, while the primary reason for most of them was "it hurts my big invincible battleship therefore it is op".

I thought the new CV skills were a dead giveaway that no one in the QA department at WG plays CVs already.

Taiho (mediocre game)

Favorite ship by enjoyment: Fletcher She can torp, she can knife, she can AA and she can torp beat all day long. The ultimate jack of all trades, what's there not to like? Favorite ship by carry potential: Bogue (1/1/0) Barely any AA at her tier, ludicrously strong fighters and her torp bombers can kill anything in one run that is not a BB. AS Bogues are a pain but easily dealt with, Zuiho doesn't even count as competition. The ultimate seal-clubber Favorite ship by economic potential: Shinonome One of 3 true premiums I currently have, all of them I got for free. Seems to earn me more cash than my Graf Spee or Kamikaze R. Favorite ship by achievement potential: Taiho (2/3/2) First blood, arsonist, witherer, high caliber, confederate, kraken unleashed are all fairly common with the occasional clear sky, double strike and liquidator. Die hard, close quarters expert and solo warrior are extremely rare but not impossible. Personal favorite: Gearing I enjoy knifing other DDs and this is the best knife fighter in the game. Logical, no? Least favorite ship to face: Belfast Even more annoying than Kutuzov. Total consumable overload and ludicrous AA makes this ship a nightmare to deal with regardless of what class you're playing.

Shokaku (top game)

Taiho (top games)

Shokaku (top games)

Well, since I usually don't take screenshots of average games I can only supply top ones. I'll try to add some average ones later on. Hiryu (top games)

Huh, I guess we should start a new topic about it then?