El2aZeR

Comrade, supreme Russian battleship made out of glorious stalinium not need lifeboats, because fascist or capitalist pig shells cannot penetrate xaxaxaxaxa!

Happened just a day after apparently.

They changed it recently so that DW torps are class, not draught based. Cruisers, BBs and CVs now always get hit, while DDs are completely unaffected. Not really (afaik they never informed us by what factor strafing increases damage, but personally I'd assume it's on the same level as DFAA, aka 300%), but just look at the DPS her planes have compared to others. That's plenty of an indicator. Still farming CS every time I come up against a GZ, apparently WG seems unwilling to buff her seriously weak fighters. Considering the strike package she now has though that may be justified, but I feel like it's still far too easy to shut her down, especially considering her limited target selection.

I don't think @ThinderChief appreciated my presence.

So they basically promise to have CVs reworked by then? I'm not too confident in that tbh.

By always shooting AP obviously. Though really, even just overpens are often preferable to switching to HE.

Even on DDs it's better to take MA mod. 1. You don't want your main guns or torp tubes to fail in a critical moment.

Why AS? It makes no sense at all to use it in random. But even with strike you'll be hard pressed to kill a Mino.

If Red B continues on to move away that makes it even easier for Green Team since, now that they're engaged, they can in fact simply split themselves to annihilate Red A. They will at worst trade one for one, considering that Green Team will now have two caps to Red Team's none that's still working out. Smoke firing does not work because Red A cannot keep Green Team spotted indefinitely unless in hydro range. The very nature of a split prevents that. Sure, in that time Red B will deal some damage, but at the cost of half their team. Red A can ofc also start to move away as soon as they identify the play but they will have to hold off on firing while doing so due to their close proximity and give up the cap while Red B trades fire. If Red B also goes silent Green Team is practically gifted two caps.

Never be too far from your teammates? It's not that hard.

Area denial torpedoes would only be able to come from a single direction (from the enemy spawn) and thus should be easily avoidable. Since that is the direction you want to go anyway it doesn't even matter that the torps lock you into a heading. Any attempt to push into the middle of the map for catching the enemy broadside would result in disaster as you'd quickly get hunted down by the enemy DDs and obliterated, as you yourself would have no support while the enemy has all guns trained in your direction. Really? I don't see how Red A ever gets into position to flank before Red B falls. This is ofc assuming Green Team identifies Red A moving, which is an easy feat considering the proximity and utility available. If they get it wrong, they're actually simply locked in a stalemate. Due to the reconnaissance tools available it is highly unlikely Green Team will round the islands without knowing Red Team has prepared to defend. Likewise Red Team is unlikely to not notice that Green Team is coming down on them in a concentrated push, but since they decided to split at the beginning of the game their forces are now divided between two locations. Even if you don't stay and trade fire, forcing the remaining enemy group to move, you could also simply push through in direction of their spawn. The small island offers plenty of cover when rounded in close proximity and is almost perfect in shape so you can angle before clearing it. Any DD hiding behind it can be flushed out by having a ship clear the other side wide, unable to get shot from any defensive position. Proximity will then dictate the match into your favor, as one half of the enemy team will miss more often than you will by virtue of dispersion, enabling you to destroy the closer group quicker than they can destroy you.

This is in fact not a bad option at all and puts red team at a severe disadvantage. Remember the setup we're playing with, everyone and their mother has Vigilance, hydro, radar and RPF, so torps are a non-issue. Shooting from the extension requires long range fire, depending on which ships the enemy has chosen to use that's not optimal, not to mention you can simply stop between the islands and start trading far more effectively due to superior numbers. If the other group decides to push you from behind you can either use area denial torps or simply push out into the middle, keeping the island between you and your adversaries. Besides, if you identify the play quickly enough (and you really should with planes & radar) you can push the natural before the other group has even rounded the southern islands. When one dies one normally doesn't continue to move.

Please also note that on the first example green team can simply choose which group they want to destroy, while on the second one if red team decides to reunite after capping instead green team can get a cap AND a flanking position. "Initial splits totally viable guys!"

Yup, no island cover for the guys sticking together at all. Plenty of island cover for the guys running away. *Edited

When you turn around to run, what do you think you expose (if you even can if you're in a group with a BB)? What usually happens when T10 cruisers expose even a bit of broadside? And which direction do you usually run to to avoid getting killed? My "solution" is to never get into such a situation in the first place. Ships that will inevitably get spotted (aka cruisers and BBs) will inevitably get taken out or trade unfavorably, DDs even when undetected do nothing but eventually get hunted down due to the hydro, radar and RPF heavy meta that will inevitably define CBs. Splitting is an option when you're engaged, not in the opening stages of a match. "I understand this game lol"

Pff, forget second best, the time when she was the only best T4 BB was much more glorious!

Reasons why you do not get citadels against BBs at close range: - may have turtleback, making them impossible to citadel at either close or all ranges (KM BBs in particular are almost completely immune at all ranges, but a fair amount of other BBs have turtleback as well) - citadel may be submerged deep, making them impossible to citadel at close range (RN BBs in particular are offenders of this) - RNGesus doesn't love you (try sacrificing a goat to him, it may change is opinion) - you're aiming wrong (most BBs have their citadel at their waterline, so aim at it) I recommend using the ingame armor viewer to see which BBs you can actually citadel at close range. Either way you should continue to use AP shells, as even regular penetrations will deal much more damage than HE shells.

The thing is Fubuki also had decent gun power as well with her B-hull, making her more versatile than Kagero. If she only had torps no one would've probably bothered. With the upcoming smoke changes (which btw is ironically a pretty hefty passive buff to CVs) I honestly doubt it. The only cruiser that will still be able to effectively utilize smoke is Minotaur, which combined with a Gearing and radar might make a serious cap denial/contesting ship but may also get shut down rather quickly considering the amount of radar that will inevitably flood the meta.

Except, you know, island cover is still a thing. Besides, you're the one who presented a flawed "logic" problem in your assumption that a team only has to deal with air attacks. Assuming that, a team of six T10 surface ships can easily split into two groups of three or even three groups of two depending on nation and class distribution. Neither of which is particularly suited to fight off a concentrated surface attack alone, since, you know, assuming the enemy team isn't completely retarded they'll go somewhere where there is cover against the other ships of your team. Obviously, utilizing their numerical and potentially qualitative superiority, this will result in getting unequal trades in favor of the enemy team, unless again they're completely retarded, which is unlikely considering this is competitive play we're talking about. When the groups are already engaged such splits can be utilized, but initially the number of surface ships is too low to split over the map, though that applies to 7vs7 in general. "I know how this game works." Ranked is not competitive. To apply the meta of one to the other is absolutely idiotic. Also Farragut does not have usable torpedo armament. Benson does.

The only thing that is truly shocking is that you're assuming competitive will be played on ocean. Forget tactics, now I'm questioning your fundamental knowledge of the game.

People have tested IJN DDs in tournament play. They're worthless. Concealment and torps are even more worthless advantages to have in a meta with constant hydro and radar coverage in addition to everyone spec'ing into Vigilance. Moot point there, really.

Your "logic" problem (which exhibits no logic at all in the context of the game) is inherently flawed like your views of game balance. That is untrue. Technically speaking you could split into two, if not three groups, all of which will be safe from air attacks assuming the competitive scenario. However if the enemy doesn't decide to split one of your groups will be doomed very quickly because it is too small to effectively fight off a concentrated group of ships, not aircraft. If it is also news for you, the enemy team doesn't solely consist of aircraft carriers. If it did you'd have a very easy win on your hands. "I hate carriers because they limit strategies but I do not understand basic tactics."

Same as if you'd doubt the earth is round. It doesn't make it any less true.

And if you'd actually think about it you'd see that even without CVs, for example, Benson would still be the best choice for a DD. No one would pick a Kagero because Kagero is an objectively worse choice not only in AA but in almost every other aspect as well. CVs have very little influence on the viability of the different nations, to say that they limit them is hilarious at best.

Just 2x hydro is enough for hydro always being active. 3x radar is needed for radar always to be active, but it doesn't need to be active all the time anyway since you can just activate it once you see you're spotted. The scenario you describe would, in competitive play, mean that said DD has severely misplayed by allowing planes to constantly hover over him or he has lost the majority of his team anyway. What you experience in random is not applicable to competitive in any way, shape or form.