El2aZeR

Since when is WG known to balance with a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer?

Here's an idea: One turret fires HE. The other fires AP. Best of both worlds.

AP ofc. Those are 410mm guns after all.

Sure, but you usually won't be successful with it unlike with reworked CVs. The damage farming DD that disregards his team will rarely have personal success as well, likewise with the 20km camping BB. Asashio is a good example however what happens if you make something that's successful at damage farming and next to completely worthless as a teamplaying tool in comparison. Besides, the problem again is that CVs are independent from everyone, while everyone may need to depend on the CV. Being independent in a team game is the worst possible thing to have. As for suggestions, well, considering the goals they've listed it's pretty much impossible to do CVs any other way. You need to appeal to the lowest possible denominator after all.

Which is why everyone praised Asashio as the pinnacle of game design, no? Just because we have examples already in the game doesn't mean we should introduce another, especially not a whole class of it.

I believe you misunderstood me. Teamplay, while possible, is not necessary with reworked CVs. Where a DD might need help to kill, say, a radar cruiser, reworked CVs don't need anyone because AA can be dodged, plane reserves are infinite and the playstyle is inherently focused on farming damage. This creates a one way relationship where while people may be dependent on you, you're independent from everyone. That inevitably means people will always be more inclined to play in an egoistical fashion rather than for the team's success. On the other hand in the current iteration there are ships you simply cannot touch, some not even spot, which need to be taken out by your team for your own success. You're dependent on your team just as they're depending on you to give them spotting information or air cover, meaning the relationship with your teammates goes both ways.

Take Ise Kai Ni concept from KC: Plays like a normal CV, but the BB guns act as 20km secondaries.

Except that with every other class, current CVs included, teamplay is vital for success. Sure, you CAN just abandon your team and just go damage farm, but it'll ultimately increase your chance of losing dramatically. Not so with reworked CVs as their new primary focus is literally just farming damage. You don't need to rely on teammates nor can they rely on you. Teamplay becomes negligible, something that should never happen.

Only when they're not shooting back, which they annoyingly tend to do. Thus I rescind my previous statement and propose to remove all armaments from BB instead.

Agreed. But objectively speaking reworked CV play is further away from everyone else than current CV play due to being far more independent. You may be closer visually (perhaps not even that), but if I had to choose between the two I'd pick the current need to teamplay every time. This is not about the RTS interface btw. I'd be equally happy if WG gives third-person CV play the ability to play with their teammates. As it stands right now though you'll be off doing your own thing while not giving a about everyone else, which I don't think is something a class should be about in a team game like WoWs. Especially considering this is the way WG is planning on introducing CVs into Clan Battles.

Being pink is not a penalty. Being pink is a warning. You are in no way restricted from playing the game when pink. If you commit another offense while being pink however you go red, getting restricted to a number of coop games. THAT is a penalty.

Fify. Friendly reminder that cap exp has been nerfed hard and everything else basically gives almost no exp at all.

Which, again, is personal perception. If you don't perceive "sketchy icons" as your teammates, fine. You'll need to if you want to play current CVs to their full potential however.

Just like they will be in the rework, it's just that you'll notice them even less because they will have no impact on your play unlike now. Whether you perceive "sketchy icons" as your teammates is up to your individual viewpoint. You may as well say that you only perceive the ships of your teammates as dead pixels. It's the same deal.

Yes, you are. You've put yourself on trial the moment you provided supposed "proof" that CVs are overpowered, yet you cannot even defend it. You consistently try to divert attention from yourself to things that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. What does that make you other than a whiny potato, especially considering you apparently saw no fault in your abysmal playing ability and even resorted to straight up lies? If I need to remind you:

Well, afaik you get to see if others have constructed a rare ship. Yup, that's it. Half an hour left to go on maintenance. Prepare yourselves, the salt is coming.

Ironically the very idea of the rework makes CVs more detached from the game itself. In the current iteration while you may have an inherently different playstyle, you're still playing with everyone else. You need to interact with your teammates out of necessity, you need them to go contest objectives, you need AA ships to be destroyed or their AA spammed down, you need to protect them from air attack and you need to provide them spotting information along with ofc taking out key targets that are giving your team trouble. Current CV play is laid out to be the greatest teamplaying tool you could ever ask for. People often say that the current iteration makes CVs a pure 1vs1 against the enemy CV but that is simply untrue. In the rework none of that is in there. You're flying in a third person perspective which means you'll often never even see your teammates, your only tool to even see remotely how your teammates are doing is the minimap. You have literally no teamplaying potential, everything is laid out for you to be the greatest damage farmer ever. Being able to dodge AA and pretty much get your ordinance on target no matter what means this time you're essentially playing your own game, you don't really need the help of anyone else nor is there much room for counterplay on part of your target. You'll be truly detached from the match, isolated from everyone else including the enemy CV. All interaction you're capable of goes one way and never the other. You don't even have a risk-reward factor anymore because you now have infinite plane reserves. There is no need to play with anyone else in this TEAM game because you don't need to nor are you capable of it. All this sacrificed for having a similar control scheme, making everyone think "it's closer to the game now" when the opposite couldn't be more true.

So you deny that CVs had little part in your losses despite all the evidence you posted pointing otherwise? You deny that you tried to defend your shoddy performance that is out there for everyone to see? You deny all responsibility and would rather blame CVs instead? The average player, ladies and gents. This is hilarious, you're the only one contributing nothing to this discussion, preferring to talk me instead. You do not want to admit that you've played a huge role in your loss. You do not want to admit that losses were unavoidable due to teammates. You do not want to improve yourself nor reflect upon what you could do better. No, it's all too easy to just wipe your own slate clean and blame CVs, no?

Oh boy, event game maintenance has started.

And I said the matches you've posted, which are what you've based most of your argumentation on, do practically nothing to prove that as I have outlined already.

And clearly you represent all the new players trying out CVs. Fact remains that CVs weren't always unpopular, WG made them unpopular. That CVs have had low player retention has little to do with the RTS gameplay and much more with the decisions WG made, practically killing off the class overnight with only potatoes and elites remaining. To retain the RTS style however the issues with CVs would've needed to have been addressed at least 2 years ago. Now it is obviously too late for that. Lets just hope WG doesn't up the rework. But then again this is the company that gave us - Stalingrad - Belfast - Graf Zeppelin - AP bombs - Missouri etc. so I wouldn't exactly get my hopes up.

Wow, yeah, because I totally haven't brought it up and made it about the stuff you posted. Nah, I must be dreaming. Trying to deliberately misunderstand my words. What a joke.

I'm sorry, I was talking about the Saipan match? That's news to me. Again, the issue isn't whether CVs are op or not. The issue is that the matches you've posted do all to prove that. Certainly one of them, along with almost everyone else on your team. What else would you call someone who practically only gets the participation award? The truth is that you have nothing left but to cite stats and other bull that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. The matches you've posted were unwinnable with or without a skilled CV due to most of your team, you included, performing abysmally, yet you've presented them in a way that puts CVs as the leading cause of your loss which is nothing but a straight up lie. CVs have plenty of problems. Your matches show none of them. And instead of using self-reflection to improve your thoroughly abysmal performance you immediately blame CVs for your losses. Truly the mindset of the average player you've described yourself as.

Precisely. Thus it wasn't the CV that lost that game. It was the incompetence of the rest of the team. The CV suiciding accelerates defeat, it doesn't cause it. To make it look like the CV is the sole cause of such a loss is hilarious at best. It's a fun challenge tbh. Also my waifu looks and sounds fabulous.

It's incredibly clear to me, because I've been in that position countless times from a birds eye view. There would've been nothing I could do. To demonstrate that I've marked the AA range of the Seattle alone, all ships that are about to die in red and all ships that are completely useless in orange. Trying to break that in a T8 CV is laughable at best. It's even impossible in a T10 CV. I can give you another example of me getting completely locked out of a match I played yesterday by just three ships if you want: And perhaps the greatest gem: - clearly reversing full speed in spawn - earns little more than match participation award - "CVs op. All the fault of CVs. Also not totally camping in spawn" The behavior of that CV is indeed unacceptable, but to derive from that that CVs are too powerful is laughable at best. Then straight up going for stats when that point is contested, trying to defend their own shoddy performance and finally just spouting lies is supposed to make for a credible story and show us all the power of CVs? Really? I don't think so. This is baseless whining at it's finest.