El2aZeR

Sounds like a decent trade for - high HP pool (for T8) - fast reload + great accuracy - incredible handling - hilarious AA (though ofc this may change with the rework) - RN BB standard heal with stupidly short cd - decent stealth and speed From what I've seen I'd say this is one of the more balanced ships that have come out in recent times. Ironic that she immediately gets characterized as weak. Have people gotten used to all the overpowered bull WG tends to throw at us or what?

One of these players overstepped the 5 minute mark. That means MM will choose whatever vessels are in queue within their tier spread and throw them into a match, disregarding all soft caps and player numbers.

Punishment for intentionally leaving a match before your ship is sunk is indeed far too mild. Can't be that hard for a game to detect that the player used the menu to return to port prematurely. I'd slap them with 50 coop games every time they do.

10 kills in a div is not enough to carry trash that only wants to throw. Seriously, the standard of play has reached a new low today. I didn't even know that was possible. Every ing time you get any sort of advantage your team immediately goes full .

Hm..... Nah. I'd rather go tanking in my CV instead.

True. Probably just historical accuracy then. Without SI and premium consumables her floatplane count would be 7, which is afaik her historical complement.

Planes can get shot down.

Apparently Nagato's special attack requires 2nd ship to be a BB and echelon (diagonal) formation. Imo that kinda makes it useless because echelon has horrible modifiers for surface combat.

On a more serious note, I found FdG to be a pretty decent ship. Certainly not the best ship I've ever played, but far from the worst either. Used a secondary build on her without Concealment Expert and just played her like an oversized Bismarck. Then again it has been quite some time since I played her. The game has changed a lot since then.

@Saiyko I think this is relevant for you.

Again? Really?

I play CVs. The tears of my enemies (and teammates) provide much flavor to my beverage of choice.

Currently counting 48 stomps out of 76 battles played. If there is one thing I can already conclude however it is that camping is running rampant in T8+. Should hardly be news to anyone who frequents said tiers, tho.

No, in fact torps do too little damage to and are far from punishing for BBs. It is extremely rare that you take crippling damage from torpedoes if you keep up with your situational awareness and WASD. In fact I can't even remember the last time I got dev struck by torps in a BB. You are not supposed to. If you get struck by a CV you've already done something wrong and deserve to get punished for it. It's called enforcing teamplay. How about sticking to an AA ship next time? Also 60-70k damage? Of which you can heal 20k? Well dayum, that means as a BB you get away with about half HP. Every other class just gets straight up killed when caught out of position by a Midway. So punishing for BBs lol.

Except it has everything to do with what you're saying and it refutes the core of your argument. The human factor is completely irrelevant to balance, this naturally includes divisions. It doesn't matter at all whether this is a more casual game or not, this is true for all PvP games. The game is giving you roughly equal chances to win because it mirrors the types of ships within said division. Whether these guys play at a higher level or actively pursue teamplay has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Leagues are instated to provide a better game and potentially viewer experience as well as a competitive platform, it has nothing to do with balance. The system does not need tweaking because what you want to tweak quite frankly isn't broken. Thus if the opposing team has a 3-man unicum div willing to play off of each other whereas your own team consists of nothing but potatoes that shun teamplay, that is in fact more than fine. There is literally nothing wrong with it. Sure, you will get trashed but it should inspire you and your teammates to do better, to play on the same level as these guys. And if it doesn't then you deserve to keep getting trashed until it does. The game is already conceding a lot to casual players by limiting divisions to three people, asking to limit it any further is hilarious at best.

As are you. Yes, people who just want reworked CVs to be op shouldn't be listened to obviously. That doesn't matter tho considering the average player is already pretty much ensuring reworked CVs will actually get buffed from their current state. Ironic, considering this applies precisely to you in this case. Besides, that matters... how exactly? "Many players" are not the developer. In the end WG decides what they do, they will not listen to anyone if they believe they're doing the right thing as has been proven.

And likewise when people suffer from CVs or are bad at playing them, also backed up by facts, want the class to be rebalanced, reworked and/or removed that too is apparently valid and, according to your own writings, completely objective? Lets face it, there is not a single shred of objectivity in what you wrote. You blindly point towards statistics without taking care into analyzing them. When it comes to CV-surface ship interaction there is only one thing balance-wise to consider, namely: Does AA work as a CV counter? And it does. Very well in fact. That most players are too braindead to take advantage of the weaknesses of CVs is no longer a balancing concern. And we all know how abysmal the average player is. That is not name-calling, that is actual fact. Most players, even members of top clans, do not know how to play against CVs. I've had people waste DFAA on everything from fighters to empty bombers. I've seen Worcesters not using DFAA at all then call me OP as I killed them, being completely oblivious to what DFAA is when asked. I've once had a Kurführst telling me to "LOL STFU L2P ONLY CRUISERS HAVE HYDRO" because I told him to use it to push against a Shima taking our cap. And that is the skill level of the vast majority of the playerbase. Is it any wonder that CVs, a class designed to punish mistakes and actively enforce teamplay, do so well? Besides, my arguably most successful CV is the Enterprise. The CV with the lowest striking potential, most limited target selection, worst strike reserves and one of the worst MM brackets (shared with other T8 ships). If I can be this successful despite handicapping myself in such a hilarious fashion, one would think something else plays into the dominance of CVs beyond their inherent abilities, no? Also individual CV stats are inconclusive because unlike with regular surface ships there is no huge change in gameplay nor are there any real pitfalls. If you can do well with a Hiryu, you will inevitably do well in a Midway. The Ranger is the closest thing we have to being worthless and even she is far better than, say, a Shimakaze. Every other CV is at least viable to play, aka far more powerful. In the DD department on the other hand e.g. we have an entire line in IJN torp DDs which at higher tiers becomes completely obsolete. Thus to compare my surface ship stats with CV stats you can literally only take in statistics from ships I do well in (Worcester, Fletcher, Kongo, etc.) while dismissing ships I do not do well in (Zao, Yamato, Shima, etc.) since I do well in every CV I've played so far (with the sole exception of the Ranger that I refused to play after a few matches). The disparity won't be nearly as telling if you do. Thing is, we know why. There is no need for this discussion because we know the cause already. It is because teamplay in this team game has tremendous influence. This on the other hand is due to most players being incapable of or unwilling to teamplay. That gives divisions their tremendous power in randoms and, at the same time, makes them a negligible threat when opposed with any actual skill and/or teamplay. And I know this because: In the end if you want to characterize CV + AA divs as broken, you must inevitably characterize divisions in general as broken as you can easily reach hilarious winrates with "regular" divs, too.

Have you even seen some of the feedback or gameplay during testing? Many players actually struggled to deal a single point of damage. I would very much assume that the people like me who just casually racked up over 200k average damage are in the minority. It's extremely likely that someone who wants to make reworked CVs as powerful as possible doesn't need to lift a single finger because BB Kevin does it for him already. As for WG and listening to the playerbase, this is probably news to you: WG only listens as long as you don't contest them on their views. As soon as you do you get completely ignored. This has been proven over and over again, it'll be no different this time.

Ironic, considering the vast majority of my games are played solo, as such I'm actually a "victim" of CV + AA divs most of the time. So much for your objectivity. I mean, I could also fabricate something about you just being jealous of skilled CV players considering you can't even make one of the more broken ones work. Or how you just don't want to get punished by CVs for obvious and clear mistakes you make in your play but don't want to put in any effort to git gud. That'd be about as objective as the stuff you wrote. In fact, I can rewrite your entire post to either defend or attack any other class or mechanic, anything from cruisers, DDs over concealment to radar and hydro. That in itself is proof that you have not presented a single objective argument. As for the rework, here's a simple hint for you as to why they're actually doing it: WG likes to make money. They won't make much money on something less than 5% of the playerbase cares about. So even if CVs were balanced perfectly, they'd still get reworked. Also the rework actually exacerbates pretty much every single problem there is with CV play currently. I can tell you right now that CVs will become even more hated than before.

Meh, instead of adjusting MM to compensate I'd much rather have them address the core problem, namely the ridiculous disparity skills and upgrades bring for and against CVs. CV and AA skills/upgrades have been a mess since forever. We've been pointing that out for ages, but ofc nothing was done in that regard.

It does? Christ... Tbh that says more about the average level of play than the usefulness of the extra range, but meh, if you can find success with it I won't begrudge you for it.

So... why are you running range mod then? Shouldn't gun reload suit you better?