El2aZeR

And I guess spotting for yourself via summoned fighter while in smoke isn't an issue either? Seriously, have you people even REMOTELY thought this through?

I have a genius idea! What if ships couldn't detect aircraft with their AA off either?

This is funny because both fighters and spotters often have a higher detectability than the ships they are launched from and can be used accurately to determine the precise location of said ship. Spotters are especially hilarious since they are visible from like 16km out, meaning a small plane is far more visible than a gigantic BB.

Being transparent about your own incompetence makes (or should make) people wonder about what you decide to hide instead.

Guys, please read. These are not planned changes. They're using this on the ST to gather data about the impact of CV spotting. This is arguably worse since it shows that they seriously don't know their own game.

"Stealth AA is bad, this is why we have increased the air spotting range for cruisers to be equal to their AA range!" *a few months later* "CV spotting is out of control, this is why we will test stealth AA capabilities to gather data!" @L0V3_and_PE4CE you were saying something about trustworthiness and transparency? Behold how WG earns both in truly amazing quantities.

You will find that a lot of game design decisions are based around 1/0 situations. This is because the human factor, aka skill is usually supposed to decide the outcome. If you however design a class purely around damage dealing, any other activity becomes boring. As such a redesign of the 3rd person single squad gameplay to include complete shutdowns would be boring and frustrating to play especially in the current meta. As such your proposal would inevitably fail perhaps the biggest goal of this rework. Most players will not want to circle for 5 minutes straight just so they can get an opportunity to attack. Most players will not want to spend precious time to switch flanks only to see that their window has closed or that it has reopened on the other side. It is completely untenable. - do slingshot as usual - use complete squad HP to soak the damage as you skip long and mid range AA - do the attack as usual - if any planes remain, while on your way out deliberately fly your planes into flak so that they become immune and return to the CV = guaranteed loss of only the attack wing

Which keeps you engaged... how exactly? A torpedo DD still can contest caps, support with utility or even fight with guns in addition to spotting. If you reduce a CVs role to only spotting you may as well remove them altogether because there is no point in having them in the game for that. Most attacks even on isolated ships only get 2-3 drops through. By making planes leave for the CV instead of being destroyed while "slingshotting" it basically eliminates the need to shorten your squad, guaranteeing that one attack gets through AND only your attack wing gets shot down. Besides, slingshotting is not only just abusing the invulnerability window. It'd still be effective due to the speed boost you gain via artifical acceleration. If you take that away on the other hand planes will once again be able to turn within close range AA after an attack making any other AA completely pointless. That is precisely why slingshotting was introduced in the first place. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Because clearly torping is the only active role of a torpedo DD. Which removes the point of having multiple attacks per squad. It would also make CVs even more unpunishable than before.

Except a CV has no role left other than damage dealing in its inherent gameplay concept. There is no other role they can play without compromising the rework severely. And no, there is are exactly two unfavorable situations for a CV. One is an enemy within AA range that can shoot down returning planes. Since this is so incredibly rare this might as well not exist. The other is getting a CV teammate in a 2vs2 CV match (or god forbid 3vs3) while your opponents are competent. The match is practically default lost at that point. Slingshot is working as intended and will not be fixed. In fact it cannot get fixed because either it ruins the "cinematic experience" or the gameplay repercussions will be too harsh. Slingshotting didn't always exist. It was introduced. In the example mentioned previously? No, not intentionally. I used a drop on the Moskva as a "slingshot" to kill the Minotaur (who in the end suffered a topkek 55k damage from me alone. He didn't last beyond his first or second heal I believe) but that's about the only instance I did it in that particular match. I abuse slingshotting all the time with Enterprise on the other hand because it synergizes beautifully with the no accuracy penalty on her DBs. Which funnily enough is also coming for all USN DBs if they decide to leave the next patch as is.

Had a CV teammate yesterday who went towards the enemy team in the first few minutes of the match and inevitably got killed. Reason? "Can't spot with planes so I spot with hull!" We lost ofc.

- Hit a Neptune for 30k in my Enterprise. - Didn't lose a single plane - "omg cv nice cheats report"

Because that isn't possible with the current iteration. If you only have one squad that squad has to be able to attack and deal damage regardless of circumstance. There is no point in single squadron gameplay otherwise. That is also why this cannot happen. The current CV rework automatically excludes any kind of shutdown counterplay, hence why it is fundamentally flawed.

Darn, wanted to show you guys a replay where I just all over a bunched up div (Mino, Moskva, Monty). Then I saw that for some reason my WoWs hasn't been recording replays for two weeks. No wonder my MM monitor refuses to work. Off topic, but anyone know how to fix that? It's no longer the preferences.xml stuff it seems (in fact that file doesn't seem to do anthing at all anymore). @Saiyko was there as well tho, maybe he can share.

While the old AA system didn't offer much interaction, at least it did its job of denying strikes, making you capable of actually punishing CVs. The new AA system doesn't do that unless the enemy CV is bad.

Huh, was sure I read somewhere that lolis are permanent on the CN server. Just assumed its gonna be the case on EN too. That sucks.

- new dispersion generally makes it easier or even inevitable to get all bombs on target against cruisers and BBs - new dispersion makes setting multiple fires easier - reticle continues to close even when maneuvering, making it practically impossible to not get a perfect drop angle with practice - DDs still get ed

Fletcher still has DFAA. It's just not as effective as it was before.

Very true, however impact is undiminished because that is a two way street. The basic skill check was simply moved from player controlled fighters to flak. Good CVs that would previously fight each other meanwhile are shifted towards killing surface ships completely, so their "impact" of fighting each other was simply shifted to "impact" against surface ships. It's not a direct nerf and I wouldn't even say that it made CVs less impactful overall. Enterprise? In general - T4 CVs are likely weaker than before. This is fine because RTS T4 CVs were ludicrously op, tempered only via removal of manual drop - T6 CVs are about as powerful as before - T8 CVs are overall about as powerful as before, but due to the oversaturation of CVs at T8 that kinda needs to be decided on a case by case basis - Haku is slightly weaker, Midway is just as if not more powerful than before So if you believe RTS CVs were too impactful reworked CVs are as well. What matters to me however is not the impact (as in an asymmetrical system such as WoWs some classes are bound to be more impactful than others), it is that the gameplay of reworked CVs is infinitely worse for surface ships as they have no effective counterplay options left whatsoever. No longer is anything decided on part of the surface ship player, whether you get murdered or not is entirely in the hands of the CV player. And lack of support options from your own CV player means he will have to leave you to your fate, making CVs the only class that is entirely focused on griefing other classes.

Well, I only play Memeway when I'm in a div nowadays. So primarily with you. Still wish you could pick T8 CVs with T10 div mates.

- Langley and Hosho became very meh after manual drop was removed - Likewise with Bogue and Zuiho - Ryujo and Independence were very powerful in their own tiers but became horrible when up tiered which happened extremely often - Ranger was all around bad - Lexington was workable but not particularly powerful - Essex likewise was meh at best That's what, about half the previously existing RTS CVs?

You too are labeling all RTS CVs under a single umbrella term and calling them more impactful than reworked CVs you know? I'm sure you mean the likes of RTS Midway and Haku with that and not Bogue or Ranger. Pot calling Kettle much?

A truly pointless question. CVs have always been measured by their most impactful ships in the RTS iteration, if you want to make an apt comparison you need to do the same for reworked ones. E.g. most reworked CVs are most definitely more powerful than RTS Ranger.

And, pray tell, how can you tell that they've "reduced the impact" of CVs?