El2aZeR

On a completely different note, this just happened. Seriously, first the ed autopilot steers me into the map border and then it wants me to go out of the map to avoid the island in front of me. "CVs don't need manual hull control" lol

Yeah, sure wonder how he does that.

I believe @Sunleader stated (don't remember whether it was here or not) that CVs as of 0.8.5 are strong but no longer overpowered. To which I would kinda agree on a case by case basis but not necessarily overall. Enterprise is still laughably op e.g. (unsurprisingly) and both Haku and Midway are at the very least extremely powerful. Meanwhile I reckon that e.g. the RN CVs are pretty much dead, which is a symptom of the rework design itself. A few extra % HP here and there is not going to fix that because the rework was never meant to run with such an adjustment in the first place. (Unless ofc WG goes full on the HP buff.) Yet such an adjustment is necessary, but it doesn't really fix a lot of the issues that reworked CVs have. In fact it actually worsens quite a few of them, especially the skill gap. What is extremely amusing is that with pretty much every major adjustment we're getting closer and closer to the RTS status quo where a skilled CV player is still a major game deciding factor while the average player is inevitably left behind. Ironically Kaga was the only CV that Ranger could kinda reasonably fight with because Kaga air control was also garbage.

And what would be the point of that? I could tell you to go play Ranger for 100 matches on the CN server and see what results you get, would that be an indication of the overall power of RTS CVs? Ofc surface ships are still playable. It's for the same reason why Shima is still playable. The average player is garbage, this naturally includes CV players. However it doesn't exactly prove anything but abysmal average player skill, for which we have plenty of other proof for.

That's probably because it is kinda impossible to notice that someone is chatbanned. :) Reporting for "Misbehavior in chat" needs more than a couple reports before the automatic system triggers apparently, but it is known to work.

That does nothing. Abuse "MIsbehavior in chat" instead, every other option is worthless as they only affect karma.

Map awareness and positioning played a huge part in countering RTS CVs in addition to taking a plethora of AA skills/upgrades. Doing away with the latter means the former two should've been the driving factor in whether you get struck or not. RTS CVs had plenty of other issues ofc but imo the AA system was a decent base to work off of. AA skills should've helped you in mitigating air strike damage just like with every other specialization, it should not have allowed you to swing between "completely useless" and "lol complete fly zone" regardless of base AA. That would depend on your target audience. Considering WG likes to pander to casuals any kind of active AA system is most likely a no go. Personally I'm not against the idea (having played a dedicated AA ship in my clan back in NavyField) but with the overabundance of unskilled players in this game it would probably result in a buff to CVs more than anything else. The issue is that if you design something that only deals damage, that means it has to deal damage or it inevitably becomes unfun to play. Being able to deal damage is fine, being able to deal damage under every circumstance (aka without counterplay) and then have that as the only trait of a class is not. Ofc players in this game are garbage, but it is important that these teamplay aspects are there as otherwise we end up with precisely what reworked CVs are. Also I play reworked CVs purely out of spite. I hate reworked CVs, I just take more delight in making the playerbase suffer from their own mistake of supporting this rework when it was first teased. I've said it years before that some kind of single squad gameplay can only burn down in flames one way or another and here we are. Even after the rework became playable every single warning I gave was thoroughly ignored or scoffed at because "lol it's only X test iteration/PTS/beginning of balancing". So here we are. s wanted this rework, it is only fitting that I make them suffer with it.

Can't say I share those particular experiences with the few Neustras I've encountered tbh.

Ofc, which is why I specifically stated "up to 0.8.4". Exactly. However the concept of having to specialize into AA is flawed in the first place. CVs are supposed to be a core aspect of this game, that you have to specialize to stand a chance of defending yourself is just utterly stupid. That's like being able to make yourself completely immune to citadel hits by just taking a bunch of skills/upgrades. AA upgrades and skills needed to go and AA needed to be balanced around base values mostly. Yes, I meant the rework as a whole. Also blocking caps with fighters is actually a bad play and can be easily neutralized by the opposing CV. Likewise attacking the enemy CV during any time but the end game will more often lead to you being low on planes than a kill. And attempting to actively cover your team inevitably leads to you being left far behind by an enemy CV who only tries to apply damage even if you do score a bunch of plane kills. WG is actively discouraging CV players from interacting with each other and those who try to usually get punished for it. The inherent issue with reworked CVs is that everything is tied to damage farming. E.g. DDs can (for the most part) smoke their teammates, BBs can attempt to absorb damage, cruisers have a ton of team utility but what can CVs do? They can spot, yes, but active spotting is discouraged unlike with their predecessors because, well, you can just spot AND attack as well so why bother? As for cap resets, should a CV really be able to do that? Just indefinitely reset while dealing tons of damage to ships attempting to cap? Reworked CVs solely exist to farm damage and grief other classes while avoiding to fight themselves. That's their inherent concept and as soon as it is challenged playability drops dramatically as demonstrated by the 0.8.5 AA change. A class like this has no place in what is supposed to be a team based game nor can it be fixed in any way.

Shouldn't surprise anyone considering the limited playerbase it has, no? @Bear_Necessities it's a bit off topic but I've been wondering, what's so great about that ship when e.g. compared to a Fletcher?

Honestly all they needed to do was to make the map a bit smaller, cutting off the potato spots top left and bottom right.

Read: "The rework is ." I just backed my "experience" with hard data taken from maplesyrup. Up until 0.8.4 reworked CVs were definitely more powerful than RTS ones. If reworked CVs were objectively the better system I'd be more than happy to see the RTS iteration go. However it isn't, it is in fact far worse than RTS CVs ever were. And never have I denied that CVs need changes. Really, you're pulling the "CV main" card now? Which is why in tournaments CVs were reduced to spotting mules before the rework. /s Yes, competitive play was different than randoms, however it showed one thing very clearly. AA as a counter system to CVs worked and it worked very well. It was only a question of how to change it so you wouldn't have to spend a ton of points to make it effective in that regard. Also it's ironic, isn't it? "CVs should be like any other class" yet now they fundamentally lack the capability of fighting each other nor do they have any active team utility, which means the rework concept inherently prevents CVs from being like any other class. That's a lot farther than "just a little off", no?

Flak tends to shoot through islands due to the ed way it works, however it only happens if your aircraft are under attack in the first place. DPS never goes through islands. Every time you get hard cover between you and the enemy their AA gets "reset" so to speak. And what does that mean then? Not just good results either. As of 0.8.5 CVs can still have dramatic impact on the battle. We're talking about extreme ranges that CVs usually operate in. That's 25km+. Ever tried to hit things with a Yamato at such distances?

Which is ofc your own experience and that's fine. But it's also inherently biased Objective statistical analysis meanwhile reveals that reworked CVs are a dumpster fire.

I'm almost certain that shot of Zeroes strafing civilians in the street is reused from Pearl Harbour. Honestly though I have to admit that the trailer looks better than I expected in terms of action (storytelling was always going to be overblown, a blind man could've seen that coming from miles away). You just have to keep your expectations low enough so you'll always be pleasantly surprised.

RTS CVs require at least 3 minutes to reengage unless they are suicidally close to their target. Thank god the CN server still exists so you can't feed us bull.

Henry meanwhile is one of few cruisers against which I can guarantee a 2nd strike tho precisely because she has no close range AA. Except seasonal stats show that up to 0.8.4 (as we have no data on 0.8.5) reworked CVs are either on par with or more powerful than RTS CVs in all categories but plane kills. And no, survivability is actually one of the stats that has increased by quite a bit. Overall population is also roughly the same as about one and a half years ago. Thus objectively speaking the rework has been a gigantic failure so far. I disagree, however to create and realize such a concept seems to require a level of competence beyond WGs capabilities as they have proven over and over again. As such removing them is probably for the best. However if you had given me and the other skilled CV players, say, one month to balance the RTS iteration I would bet big money that we could've at least made you see light at the end of the tunnel. Too bad that WG outright told us to our face that any feedback we give was to be disregarded because "you are too skilled and knowledgeable to judge". Also ironically strafing was a community requested feature to "make those ing CV players fight each other". Just like the rework the playerbase dug its own grave with that.

Hinden is one of the weaker T10 cruisers in terms of AA so that's not saying much. Moskva has range which makes her extremely annoying. Zao AA is trash ofc. And close range AA is rather important on cruisers imo given their vulnerability to AP bombs.

While HE spamming at long range may occasionally give you big damage totals it won't have much impact on the battle. CVs meanwhile not only have high damage potential but they have the means to ensure that their damage is dealt effectively. E.g. 150k damage on BBs usually won't do much to win the battle while 60k damage dealt to DDs can easily win the match. Also Henry AA is garbage. It's one of the weakest T10 capital ships in terms of AA. A friggin' GK puts out more DPS than her. DFAA is her only saving grace and even that won't ensure that she won't get hit as she does not possess close range mounts, meaning you can just slingshot past everything.

Or just use island cover. Regardless the AA change demonstrates that reworked CVs are not salvageable. With it we are approaching (yes, approaching, as in we're not even there yet) a fair system for surface ships. Moving in this direction will eventually make reworked CVs unplayable. With the upcoming CV buff meanwhile we're actually moving away from a fair system for surface ships, but it will make CVs more comfortable to play. As such a satisfactory arrangement for both parties is outright impossible to achieve because the concept of the rework is inherently unfair one way or another. Shimakaze 20km torps are the outright most ineffective weapon in the game. Even the clumsiest BBs can dodge them broadside at any but point blank range. Extreme range shelling with BBs is often meaningless as accuracy is laughable and it gives your target plenty of time to dodge or angle. Likewise deck armor penetrations do not exist unless overmatch is involved. This means unless you put yourself into harms way you're going to be laughably ineffective just like 20km Shima torps. Distance meanwhile doesn't make a CV strike easier to dodge or deal no damage. All it does is limit the DPM of a CV a bit by prolonging flight times. Once again you're being intellectually dishonest.

Precisely what is happening now. In fact thanks to glorious "working as intended" mechanics you can still largely mitigate the impact of strong AA against your reserves while demolishing them.

Except doing exactly that made you label CVs as unplayable and demand a refund.

Except it is backed up by simple hard facts, such as 1. CVs are the only class in this game designed solely to grief other classes. 2. CVs are the only class in this game without any active team utility. 3. Reworked CVs are shown to overall outperform their predecessors in stats up until 0.8.5 (no data on 0.8.5 yet). 4. The rework has objectively solved none of or severely worsened the following problems the RTS iteration had: - Skillgap - Influence on battle - Spotting - Damage potential - Overall population 5. The rework introduced a ton of issues on top of existing ones. 6. Before 0.8.5 counterplay to reworked CVs was nonexistent. It in fact continues to be nonexistent depending on MM. Any attempt to solve these issues, as shown with the AA change, will inevitably break the rework. As such the only feedback to give is very simple. The rework has to be scrapped completely. There is no other way to address these problems otherwise. 0.8.5 changes nothing on that matter, in fact imo 0.8.5 isn't even enough of a nerf as it inevitably doesn't solve all of the fundamental issues of reworked CVs. Does it objectively break the rework? Ofc it does, but there is no other way.

A purely subjective opinion not backed up by facts, as such to be disregarded.