El2aZeR

*laughs in Enterprise*

So basically "ignore stuff that does not favor me, but use stuff that does". Are you a WG employee by any chance? Start of development matters because the population back then was already deemed insufficient. But if you want something from last year so desperately: Randomly picked weekly stats in timeframe 2018 (2018/03/31): - 1k players high tier - 1.5k players low tier Randomly picked monthly stats in timeframe 2018 (same as above): - 3.2k players high tier - 4.3k players low tier Oh no, it would appear that the CV rework is still more unpopular than the RTS iteration. Who could've guessed?

Whole month data ignores severe changes to CVs made just last week as can be seen in the severe population drop when looking at weekly data. Hence why monthly data is irrelevant. When the rework was previewed in October of last year WG themselves stated that the rework was in development for over a year. That puts the start if development between 2017 and 2018. Inevitably that means WG identified their issues with the RTS system in that timeframe which includes low population. The rework was not done overnight.

Again, how exactly is it overdone when it fulfills your requirements to a T? You can't wiggle out of this one mate. So basically you want to make AA a complete RNGfest that neither player has control over. Didn't you state that this is exactly what you despised about RTS AA (despite RTS AA not actually being a RNGfest)?

There is your problem. Also rework was in development for over a year according to WG themselves, which puts the timeframe between 2017 and 2018.

Immediately one fundamental flaw comes to mind. People typically sell ships they no longer wish to play.

Why not just spare me the effort and look it up yourself? You even posted a link for convenience already. Last snapshot before rework (2019/01/26): - 1k high tier - 1.2k low tier Randomly selected timeframe between 2017 and 2018 (2017/09/30): - 1.6k high tier - 2.6k low tier Rest you can do yourself, no?

AA actually still can't outright deny strikes unless massed in stupidly impractical concentration. Time to kill a squad compared to 0.8.4 hasn't changed, only the distribution of its damage. And how exactly can it be overdone when it achieves practically all your stated goals for a balanced system? First strike always gets through, CVs are being punished for striking wrong targets, preserving reserves is rewarded etc. is all true as of 0.8.5 whereas previously it wasn't. Didn't I tell you already? They already tried to build on flak only. It didn't work, all it did was make AA completely obsolete. Unless you want to start losing planes to pure RNG or give players full manual AA control, both of which are probably worse options than just using DPS, building around the flak system is not an option.

As of 0.8.5 reworked CVs are less popular than RTS CVs for reasons that have been extremely predictable from the beginning. Also if you haven't yet noticed a good chunk of players saying that the rework is garbage and not recoverable are CV players themselves. And quite a few of them are performing rather well with them. Trying to play the minority card doesn't exactly work when the very part of the playerbase you refer to are the biggest critics of their own class. Again I can only ask, how exactly does 0.8.5 fail in that? Really, all these things you said about how CV-surface ship interaction should be has been at least partially achieved with 0.8.5, yet according to you the very patch practically fulfilling many of your visions about balanced aircraft interaction has made CVs unplayable. What more proof do you need?

Pls buff WG.

Nah, it's the dumbest thing possible. Just think about the recent HE DB adjustment and apply some logic to it. More I won't give out in public.

I see you haven't yet discovered how to aim with new HE DB dispersion. Well, have fun finding out I suppose. Depending on RNG you can even kill DDs in 2-3 strikes with RFs. Half your HP gone if you don't preemptively smoke is usually the norm in my experience. Wrong again. That actually depends on the angle of approach. If the DD is even moving the slightest bit away from you you can make the attack with most RFs thanks to the most recent glorious buff. And turning out is usually your only option, keeping course means getting fired upon without being able to dodge, turning in means closing the distance with enemy vessels. Turning into the planes is actually bad against most RFs as it gives them the best chance of a decent salvo due to their dispersion. Neither is being broadside a good option due to the angle of attack. Even multiple AA destroyers barely pose a threat. Combined DPS is less than a lower tier AA cruiser. DFAA can be easily cheesed. Attacking said DDs a few times practically neuters their AA too due to their DPS being tied to too few AA mounts, meaning just one destroyed will cut damage severely. And again, half your HP gone is not a rarity at all. Who says anything about the CV no longer being there? If there is a ship nearby to spot planes then there is a target nearby to attack. Does that somehow prevent you from attacking the DD if he is foolish enough to fire his guns? And again, remember what I said about positioning when under air attack? Chances are there will be nothing in range anyway or the bit of damage the DD puts out will be meaningless. For the same reason CV average stats are down the drain maybe?

Pff nah. Overall time spend on killing even a skilled DD can be as little as 1:30 mins. You see, when a DD is under air attack he has one practical choice: Smoke or die. The moment he smokes a skilled CV player simply no longer needs to focus him and can go ing up other ships. The DD cannot shoot because that immediately makes him vulnerable to air strikes. If he prematurely leaves smoke then any skilled CV should know immediately thanks to glorious rework mechanics. The best he can do is throw some torps and wait for death to happen a bit later. CVs generally discover and attack DDs when they do not want to be discovered. This means smokes, if available, will usually be placed in sub optimal locations at which a DD can do nothing effectively. As such in most cases a skilled DD is not wasting the time of the CV player. The CV player is wasting the time of the DD. A CV is free to engage other targets while the DD has to sit quietly in his smoke. And as soon as smoke cover is compromised, the DD is out of options.

Better question, would it have made a difference if the Gearing had his AA on? Answer is either yes or no depending on how skilled the enemy CV is. In this case it's probably a yes. However that doesn't change the fact that a skilled CV can all over you no matter what ship/build/consumable you use.

Really? You need an explanation for that? (Source) And yes, many DDs actually leave their AA off even when under attack. No one ever claimed that the average WoWs player shows any sign of intelligence.

No they don't. Not when top players can pull the same numbers as previously. That simply means the average player cannot make CVs work, nothing more, nothing less. Except it is, because you're usually spotting while attacking. The most prevalent spotting class after CVs, DDs, usually can't afford to attack at the same time. And if they can it's with a weapon that is notoriously unreliable. As such they're reliant on their team to deal damage, while a CV deals damage in addition to allowing their teammates to deal damage. Spotting is a byproduct, not an active ability. Again, damage dealing is a fundamental requirement of existence for a class in this game. It's the same as breathing irl. Do you consider breathing a valuable skill? That CVs can project their power anywhere on the map is an argument that perhaps CVs shouldn't have so many other positive traits such as always being able to deal damage? Yes, not 100% the same as in not the same thing at all. Taking a citadel hit in a cruiser implies one of the following: - you did not angle/dodge - you got surprised/outplayed - you got ed by RNG Only one of these things are out of your control. Getting hit by aircraft meanwhile is unavoidable. There is no way for you to outplay or avoid being ed by the enemy CV as long as they are sufficiently skilled. Literally nothing you do matters, all it comes down to is the skill of the enemy CV player. And as soon as people ARE able to do a little something against CVs suddenly they are unplayable according to yourself. Heck, even as of 0.8.5 counterplay options are extremely limited, for the most part the AA adjustment has shifted the skill floor of CVs themselves and done little more.

No, it is one useful trait. And it isn't even active because you do your spotting accidentally, not actively. Again, dealing damage is not a team utility. It is simply a fundamental requirement of being a class in this game. However it must not be the only trait of a class. PRECISELY. And that is what is objectively broken. Because with any other damaging weapon the skill of BOTH players is taken into account. For CVs meanwhile only the skill of the CV player matters, the only thing a surface ship can do is misplay or misplay harder. There is no active counterplay to prevent you from dying as long as the enemy CV is sufficiently skilled no matter what ship you drive or what skills/upgrades you have. Also WG didn't tone down damage. They toned down alpha strike but increased DPM. In reality there is no target that can be killed faster in a RTS CV without use of broken as AP bombs (which were a horrible concept in the first place), while reworked CVs can actually kill certain targets faster than a RTS CV to the point where a frag can be gained before RTS CVs could even launch their first attack. That the damage capabilities of CVs have been nerfed with the rework applies at best only to T4-6. Saying that about T8-10 CVs is just a straight up lie. I don't see why RTS CVs aren't relevant in this particular discussion. WG identified several issues with RTS CV gameplay. A lot, if not all of these persist in reworked CVs, thus they must be considered problems in the rework as well. History is just repeating itself at this point.

Well, either you massively got gud or CV average skill has gone down the drain. I know what I'd bet on. No offense.

ACTIVE team utility. As in spotting, tanking, using utility, etc. A CV is only there to strike ships. Even spotting is done passively and it has to be that way because actively having to spot is boring with reworked CVs. See above. Except being able to always strike in itself is a broken ability when CVs have so many other advantages along with limited counterplay options. Damage cannot be avoided and is comparatively speaking little subject to RNG. Likewise alpha strike is far too high for planes to be a high accuracy, fast reloading weapon. And it has to be that way because otherwise enjoyment of the class goes down the drain. Averages do not matter. CVs have always been judged by their best representatives in both ships and skill. Even WG did and apparently continues to do it.

1k players high and low tier respectively. Even compared to stats towards the end of the rework that's slightly lower. It is definitely inferior to player numbers in the timeframe between 2017 and 2018.

As if I needed any more proof than the recent AA change and the reactions of the average CV playerbase. Heck, objectively speaking the recent AA change has not yet even done enough to make CVs balanced. It is but a single step in the right direction, CVs are still in a more than favorable position. It's still very simple. The current rework concept relies purely on damage farming. This is achieved through one attack always being able to go through while multi attacks with a single entity is possible. This runs headfirst into two fundamental issues: 1. Enjoyment of the class is derived purely from griefing enemy ships. This is a problem because CVs are the one class that lack any kind of active team utility nor are they forced to act upon potential utility they have. In what is supposed to be a team game this is unacceptable. 2. Because CVs are meant to only deal damage, that means they have to deal damage or otherwise they are worthless and not fun to play themselves. This naturally prevents any kind of meaningful counterplay. However without counterplay options surface ship players are obviously miserable. As soon as meaningful counterplay is introduced however (see recent AA changes) the class inevitably becomes unenjoyable and more difficult, if not straight up impossible to play. Again, the closer to balance you get with reworked CVs, the further away from enjoyment and ease of play you go. CVs as a whole aren't even near balanced in surface ship interaction yet and look at all this whining and ing about how "CVs are unplayable" right now. By metrics set by WG themselves reworked CVs are still too powerful in their maximum potential as they still are capable of rivaling their predecessors. Further nerfs are therefore needed, however that will completely obliterate the remaining playerbase. Thus it is best that this fundamentally flawed concept be scrapped. It is the ONLY reasonable option and has been since day 1.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190706/eu_week/ranking_class_d1.html#cv Filtered for high tier CVs. Some stats may not be as representative due to a low number of battles played and a few players probably don't even deserve the placings they got, but it provides a pretty good overview of what top players are capable of when you take these things into consideration. Because the concept is fundamentally flawed to its very core and can only end in a dumpster fire one way or another. The more enjoyable it is for CV players, the more unbalanced they are. The more balanced reworked CVs become, the less enjoyable they will be. Currently we're leaning more towards CVs becoming more balanced, hence their massive dip in popularity and most players being unable to make them perform.

And yet top player performance hasn't exactly suffered. Which just means that CVs have returned to being a class with an extremely high skill floor. To put this into perspective, as of today @Sunleader is currently the 52nd best CV player on EU.

Nothing, precisely as predicted. - Reworked CVs retain same potential impact - Reworked CVs retain massive skill gap - Reworked CVs are less popular than RTS CVs