El2aZeR

- Siegfried nerf - Yudachi nerf - Ark Royal turned into kamikaze plane thrower This game is a better comedy than most shows out there.

So go ahead. Tell me how the rework can be both enjoyable and balanced to a satisfactory level. Do keep in mind that reverting back to 0.8.4 would be a massive step backwards in terms of balance.

They're not exploits. They're working as intended. As hilarious as that is. Squad shortening, slingshotting, accel bailout and abusing island cover are all perfectly fine in WG's eyes. If you don't want to learn these mechanics, fine. But then you have no right to complain about your ineffectiveness either since you refuse to git gud. It's not exactly smart to lie when proof is just around the corner, you know?

No, my intention is a balanced game as a whole. That is impossible with the rework. Also evading questions doesn't make you look smart. WG already found that out.

They aren't except against some BBs. And it is possible to mitigate plane losses. And you call me dishonest LOL.

She will never get back to it if her playing record in the last 7 months is any indication. With WG at the helm, perhaps not.

Bwahahahahaha Really, that's all you have left to throw at me? Did I ever say that the RTS iteration was perfectly balanced and in no need of changes? Didn't I warn everyone even before the rework went live that we would inevitably end up where we are now? Ofc no one, including you, believed me but hey, guess who has the last laugh. But if you want to throw around baseless accusations, guess what all people who are being dishonest about the rework have in common? You all are mediocre at the game except with reworked CVs. I guess the taste of unicum power is too difficult to withstand and you just want your op toy back? That's just too bad, 0.8.5 brought us closer to balance so you can't have that anymore. And no, you are not entitled to a refund just because you can't play something to an effective level. Post 0.8.5 CVs are still the most powerful class by far, they are still very much playable. That you are incapable of doing so is on you, not the class. And if you don't find enjoyment in playing the class which is now in a more balanced state, then that is perfectly fine. The game is not laid out to be your own personal playground, you are not entitled to all over whoever has to play against you. And I have STILL yet to see anyone give examples as to how exactly the rework can be improved and balanced to a satisfactory level. All you have done is suggest we turn the rework into one gigantic RNGfest which not only contradicts your previous statements about RTS AA being bad, it certainly won't improve anything for anyone involved.

A rollback would ofc imply that finally much needed balancing changes would be made. As for your personal enjoyment, yeah I can understand that. However with both iterations having about the same popularity nowadays that doesn't really factor in anymore on an objective basis.

That has always been the case with CVs. Or any class, really. Meanwhile here I am still trying to get another answer from WG about invis flak. Because you know, their last official stance was that it is totally working as intended, that I just suck at playing CVs and should git gud. I'm not even joking. Maybe that's how they're portraying the rework as bug free? "Can't be bug if it is feature camrade!"

You really can't. Because, again, everything from combat abilities to enjoyment is tied down to damage dealing. Previously in the RTS iteration you had: - fighter combat - scouting - damage dealing to exposed targets (I know that this didn't necessarily work out that way but that was because of WG's incompetence. I'm going with the fundamental concept here.) Fighter combat has gone straight out of the window with the rework. Active spotting is perhaps the most boring thing you can ever do as you're essentially just flying in circles in one place. That leaves damage dealing as the sole component from which enjoyment can be derived from. Thus a reworked CV that can always deal damage is fun but broken, while one that can't isn't fun but balanced (or at least as balanced as it gets). So whereas previously viable counterplay options such as using DFAA to wipe entire strikes, ambushing planes via stealth AA, using cover to establish no fly zones etc. could exist because a RTS CV had other things to do and derive enjoyment from, with reworked CVs such things straight up must not be allowed because it would make the existence of reworked CVs pointless one way or another. Making the rework concept of directly flying a squad work would essentially require a complete rewrite of all fundamental mechanics to include active counterplay on both sides (aka manual AA control vs active 3D space plane maneuvering) while having to keep surface ship play fully intact. Automate any part of it and we get what we have now: Complete and utter garbage. As such a rollback to the RTS iteration strikes me as the better option since you would not need to create everything from scratch.

Nah, TN is still in the game. I only liked MW1 better because it had dedicated servers. MM system in MW2 was utterly terrible. And worst of all it pioneered the trend for PC games. Regardless kill streaks as in CoD is imo too simple of an example anyway as they're directly tied to player skill. Balancing them is therefore rather easy, the more powerful the ability, the harder you (should) have to work for them.

"If they had been built they would've been the most powerful CVs ever!"

Just spent over 50k gold just to rearrange and reequip a fleet geared towards ASW. Because PANIC. At least it gave me an excuse to use Independence.

Don't forget Boise/Nueve. Also Atlanta/Flint. These have less than 14km range. I can just imagine the joy of getting up-tiered, having to get up close and personal yet STILL being unable to deal much damage. Totally #funandengaging.

Meant that reworked CVs now have a much higher skill floor compared to when released. Kinda inevitable when a class is hit by nerfs over and over again.

HE penetration of T8+ light cruisers is going to get raised to 1/5 gun caliber. With IFHE that will enable them to penetrate 32mm of armor. Really the IFHE change is only designed to completely bottom tier cruisers. As if these needed it.

Just for the last 8 months. Doesn't exactly seem to be working.

Precisely. However when you design something built around the very idea that its target inherently can't fight back, you get something completely ed one way or another. That's reworked CVs. They're actually still in. In multiple games and completely unchanged too. The balancing factor here is the requirement. Getting 25 kills in a row without being killed yourself is a pretty tall order regardless of how skilled you are.

Take Fem for example. Used to be one of the premier CV players on NA with thousands of matches played. She even promoted the rework and officially stated that she liked it better than the RTS iteration. Total CV matches after 0.8.0? Less than 100, only 3 matches played in the last 21 days compared to 65 in surface ships. Safe to say that CV play will never be her thing again.

Real life has little to do with game development and asymmetrical balancing can succeed if done well. In fact all of the most popular MP titles are asymmetrically balanced. How do tanks and aircraft fit into games centered around infantry combat? How do you balance snipers in a game centered around close range engagements? How can you throw weapons of mass destruction into a game focused on base building and army clashes? Solutions to such questions have been proven viable over and over again. The fundamental issue is that WG is trying to appeal to too large of an audience. They want every class to be viable for every kind of player which is something that simply can't happen as in an asymmetrical system one "class" will always have more potential match influence over another. Make said class too easy to play, aka way too powerful, and you will inevitably end up with a fest. And because reworked CVs are centered purely around damage dealing there is no other road WG can take. Either this class deals guaranteed extensive damage, at which point it is too powerful, or it doesn't, at which point it is useless. As such the rework is fundamentally flawed and not only should, but must be scrapped. With the RTS iteration there were plenty of other things that could have been adjusted because damage dealing wasn't their sole role, hence why it remains far superior to the rework.

Sure, they wanted to do that but have they really achieved it? I mean, yeah sure, but they've replaced fighter combat that with a basic skill check in the form of flak. Noob CV players sure as aren't more useful than before and not having to tediously attempt to fight the enemy CV also means a skilled CV player doesn't have to bother to, well, deal with the enemy CV and can just concentrate on farming surface ships instead. So basically noob CVs fail as always, they're just stopped by themselves rather than the enemy CV. Skilled CV players meanwhile can just farm the whole enemy surface fleet from the very beginning instead of having to worry about fighter cover. That sure as doesn't sound like an improvement to me. And taking away the ability of a class to fight itself, turning it into something that does nothing but grief other classes, just must not happen in what is supposed to be a team based game. Likewise CV play still has nothing to do with surface play. Yeah, they share a basic control scheme now but has surface ship play really taught you anything about how reworked CVs play? Didn't think so. Nothing has changed in this regard either. WG achieved quite literally NOTHING with this rework.

The general consensus is that the rework can certainly be improved (not all that difficult considering how shoddy its implementation is) but will never be balanced due to its fundamental flaws. As such scrapping and starting anew is in fact the only real solution.

What WG wanted to do is to decrease CV influence with the rework. Prior to 0.8.5 every single nerf has failed that objective, which inevitably meant that the class needed more nerfs. Now that they've achieved their goal at the expense of completely obliterating CV population, which was also one of the primary goals of the rework, who knows what they come up with next? I honestly doubt WG knows where to take the rework either, the whole sector reinforcement change looks more like they're just throwing at a wall and see if something sticks.

We are closest to balanced reworked CVs than ever before with 0.8.5 quite frankly. It is the first patch which has shown itself to be effective in dropping top player performance below pre-rework levels. The inherent issue with the whole rework concept is that the closer to balance you get, the harder they will become to play, the more unpopular they will become. CVs are still the most powerful class by far, they just have a much higher skill floor now. It was all doomed to fail from the very beginning. Personally I'm more than happy to see it all burn down, knowing I've played a part in why.