El2aZeR

Often the best way to dodge flak is to not have to dodge it at all. As such if you know the timing of flak even invis-flak won't surprise you in most cases. Correct. However keep in mind that speeding up can make you hit invis-flak due to the render delay. Also if flak won't render, the flak tracers often will. These are a different color and fly with a different timing than decorative tracers. With those you can determine the rough position of invisible flak bursts and avoid them. This obviously works for actually visible flak as well which tend to spawn after the tracers, so using the tracers as a guidance point gives you a half a second or so advantage.

Seemed to be all fine in this regard. Any early game damage you can deal is valuable, especially if it is permanent. This is where squad shortening comes in. If you know you're gonna lose all planes, shortening your squad accordingly will help a lot to extend your reserves. DBs can also slingshot to attack targets covered by a lot of AA. RF losses in Enterprise are often negligible especially when there are no DDs around. You get almost 50 of these per match.

Old flooding is glorious.

@Cagliostro_chan that's your area of expertise I believe.

Ah, wait, you're using wows-numbers. Nevermind anything I said. That one is kinda inaccurate given the balancing changes Midway and CVs went through as it lists stats from the beginning of the rework. Last week Midway had 236 players and an average of 69k damage. Personally I'd assume maybe around 10 are actually skilled enough to know how to avoid all flak.

Be glad you didn't actually die lol. Because yes, that too can happen.

Caledon and Kawachi have no skills, no signals nor upgrades. Clemson has the following build: Hosho has the following build:

Yes, but I avoided that by using SR before planes got in range.

Alrighty, you know the drill. Same parameters as the last experiment quite literally except with a Saipan this time. If you don't know what last time was, read here: https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/122388-comparison-rts-vs-reworked-cvs/ RTS First strike: 1 min 22 seconds (note that this is not much faster than Enterprise despite a two tier difference in plane speed) First kill: 1 min 58 seconds (flooding) 2nd kill: 4 mins 5 seconds (flooding) 3rd kill and total duration: 6 mins 5 seconds (flooding, again not much faster than Enterprise) Rework First strike: 34 seconds First kill: 2 mins 1 second (alpha strike) 2nd kill: 3 mins 24 seconds (alpha strike) 3rd kill and total duration: 4 mins 40 seconds (alpha strike) And before you bugger me about "lol no AA" again, I still can't/don't know how to enable active bots in the CN training room. But I'll reiterate that the rework indisputably has the advantage here in any real match scenario so it is a bit of a moot point. Also to preempt any whining about reworked Saipan's low reserves and how you'll get deplaned if you strike targets with so much AA, reworked Saipan gets 33 strike reserves without respawning anything while RTS Saipan has a fixed 24. If we were to take respawning planes into account reworked Saipan gets ~60 maximum, exactly 2 1/2 times more aircraft than her predecessor (although the theoretical maximum is unattainable, a more realistic number would probably be around 54, still more than twice the reserves RTS Saipan gets).

*laughs in weeb*

Alrighty, so: - you're taking too long to attack. Spawn a fighter for spotting, your RFs in this kind of MM are expendable as there are no DDs around. Hit the Cleve or Charles with them - there is generally no need to check where the enemy CV is, you can usually tell by the direction enemy planes are coming in - I would've targeted the Massachusetts with torps, he's putting far more pressure on your team than the enemy ships going B - you should've kept running even if it doesn't win you the match anymore since saving a star is still a possibility Generally speaking your team crumbled way too fast to do much about the match outcome.

This is ofc a purely subjective thing. Personally I thought the RTS iteration is more fun. It has far more depth and teamplay around it. The rework meanwhile is utterly repetitive and thus boring. After like a week or so of playing I felt like I've seen and done everything already. Meanwhile I learned something new about the RTS iteration just yesterday.

I'm getting really weird results with Clemson. There seems to be no difference whatsoever in using SR vs not using SR. In fact sometimes not using SR yields more damage for whatever reason. Perhaps her DPS is simply too weak for SR to make any difference. Caledon however does deal more damage at roughly the rate it is supposed to according to the damage counter, so that's a visual bug for sure. Indeed. So we went from "SR possibly does nothing" to "SR possibly does too much". This is getting weird.

Indeed. However there seems to be little difference in actual game impact in the rework. Your average CV player will be completely useless while the enemy unicum CV murders a DD every few minutes at a much faster rate than RTS CVs ever could while providing almost the same recon data as before. I found them to be quite good tbh. Their actual issue is more or less that E and Haku exist, both of which are pretty much direct upgrades in every way, so they feel underwhelming.

Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach: 103 damage Clemson on Hermes RFs first approach with SR: 112 damage (probably more due to my timing with shutting off the AA or maybe the bot aimed differently than SR actually doing sth) On a sidenote, DFAA DPS increase actually works as intended, turning Yubari 160 close range DPS to 240 close range DPS.

Except that wasn't possible unless you sacrificed DBs or fighter cover for your team, the enemy CV was deplaned or the enemy CV was too stupid to deny your spotting/strikes. To be fair that the enemy CV was too stupid was a pretty common occurrence, but then again that makes it no different to the situation today. Well, there aren't that many CVs with AP DBs to begin with. I haven't played Ryujo on live, but Shokaku, Hakuryu and Enterprise AP DBs are all extremely deadly.

Damage counter does rise faster, however that's because you're dealing damage to two squads as you're attacking both active and bailing aircraft. As soon as the bailing aircraft disappear the counter seems to rise at "normal" speeds again. EDIT: Some basic testing reveals Clemson deals about 103-112 damage regardless of sector reinforcement on a first approach by Hermes RFs.

Game is likely lost by default, farm as much damage as possible to make stats look decent while sarcastically spamming F11 every time a teammate dies.

Depends on how far on the edge your target is. Because of the redistribution of AA from long-mid range to mid-close range the concept of AA cover is effectively dead unless two ships literally occupy the same square on the map. Even those crumble rather fast from air assault even if they're currently the best AA ships, so they're hardly a counter.

Indeed. Which means we have returned to the RTS status quo where bad CV players are useless and skilled CV players singlehandedly decide matches. Seems way too high of a number when you consider skilled CV players can't even fill the overall top 100 list unlike other classes and before in the RTS iteration. And you complained about me taking your words literally not too long ago. It should be rather obvious that you cannot be completely immune to AA given the DPS part of it. One can however be functionally immune by simply limiting the losses to said DPS so that they no longer matter at all.

WG: "We don't think minimap only spotting for CVs is a good idea." Also WG: "We will now test minimap only spotting for CVs." It's honestly comical how desperate you are trying to save this failure of a rework.

Ah, whoops. I actually downloaded your replay and then totally forgot about it. I'll make sure to do that tomorrow. No time today sadly.

Well, there's part of the issue. AA build is worthless now. Also Grozo AA is about equivalent to T5-6 nowadays. To even try to get it to a level acceptable for T10 is outright impossible. Yes. It is working against the overwhelming number of potato CVs. Against actually skilled CV players however there are no counterplay options.

That's the CV rework working as intended alright. If you think that's stupid and broken, well yes, that is precisely how it is supposed to be.

Well, they're not WG bots. They're illegal ones. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And some of them do have questionable programming. These can easily be recognized by them reversing to the map border then surfing it until the end of time. Most I've seen are pretty good tho. Definitely better than your average potato on the EU server.