El2aZeR

Uh huh, so how exactly is this not happening with CVs vs surface ships assuming adequate skill level?

You do realize other MMOs have regional servers as well?

A hard counter isn't merely a press of a button. It is a play that counteracts a move of your opponent and completely shuts it down. You are the only one who refuses to see the truth for what it is. If you haven't noticed nothing prevents a CV from simply killing said "AA cruisers".

Apparently the best way to "avoid" a CV at the beginning as is being preached by CV players all the time is to be afk for the first two minutes. Also you're not supposed to flank or go anywhere on the map anymore without half a dozen other ships. So yes, CVs limit movement to the extreme, even going as far as restricting it completely in the first few minutes. Certain classes certainly can no longer effectively attack the enemy as they apparently need to be within 2-3km of several allies with "strong" AA all the time. So yes, that is also the case. Playing the objective immediately draws the attention of a non-braindead CV, either shutting it down for no gain or, if you have it, forcing you to expend a valuable consumable for temporary safety, after which you will die. So yes, CVs prevent ships from playing the objective. But it doesn't stop there. Even when so-called "counters" are applied it has minimal effect on the CV player, allowing them to kill ships at their leisure. And once again you're ignoring the part that goes against your narrative.

Apparently you want to constantly ignore things that do not fit your narrative. Does wonders for your credibility, truly. Again, the charts clearly show that CVs are keeping up with statistically overperforming premium ships, not tech tree ones. Do you really need an explanation as to why strong premium ships pull much better numbers than tech tree ships? Which is why CVs should be allowd to hard counter everything, huh?

The only thing that makes Kidd annoying to deal with is the heal. Some T6 ships have about the same or even better AA. It's also funny that you mention Gearing given that she has about the same AA.

Given that you have once again ignored scientific data in favor of continuing with your laughable narrative, yeah, seems legit. /s Have you considered how laughable that statement is given that in 12vs12 CBs CVs allowed for matches to be finished so fast the system thought the teams were match fixing?

Obviously CVs are currently working as intended. That's why they're broken. Unless you can provide evidence otherwise?

Sure, if they have decided to give up on the "support CV" concept that too is very likely. If they haven't tho the alt US/IJN lines are way far off.

Precisely, this is a 12 vs 12 game, meaning that you'll have opportunities to kill DDs because your own DDs will inevitably come into confrontation with them at some point due to a match being typically played out around key areas of the map. CVs meanwhile do not care about each other unless they're in close proximity, at which point the CV that wins the ensuing fight gains a near game deciding advantage for their team. Grouping for AA also doesn't work as either the group is too small to prevent meaningful damage or the group is too large and gives up all map control. Either way the CV wins. This is in addition to the massive amount of intelligence a CV naturally provides. So even in the context of a 12 vs 12 CVs are utterly broken.

The filters are literally there for all to see. Are you for real? What you're supposed to see is that your claim about how CVs are sitting between cruisers and BBs is wrong. Old Shokaku has a single player listed and is therefore irrelevant. If you go back to 2018 she's actually performing WAY worse, being behind 10k in average damage and 0.2 in KPM. And Shokaku was THE staple T8 CV. By that metric pretty much all T8 CVs are overpowered. You're also ignoring the natural difference between premium ships and tech tree ones in statistics as outlined above. As always ignoring things that don't fit your narrative, huh? Arkansas can avoid taking damage completely by map awareness, timing and WASD. An Arkansas can also shoot said DD if it gets lit up by a friendly one. CVs meanwhile do not fight each other.

Subs were free kills for CVs in previous test iterations and will likely continue to be free kills given that they have to constantly give their position away to utilize their homing torps gimmick. If anything the introduction of subs will be a gigantic buff as it reduces the overall AA output in the match.

They can't, that's true. However that isn't needed. Enterprise is overkill in terms of DD killing capability. What she can pull off others simply don't need to. Shokaku, Lexington, Midway and Haku can all deal devastating damage to DDs from the very start to the very end of the match, including below 2 minute mark kills. So no, my playing experience is not solely based on Enterprise. Far from it.

Recent reddit Q&A.

And you certainly have much proof of that? What was that about assumptions, parroting and twisting words? Guess what, Midway is overpowered as well. Lexington too. So are Hakuryu and Shokaku. Or it could be that you have nothing to defend yourself with. E.g. your previous claim about how CVs are performing mediocre in average statistics has been proven wrong as they're actually among the best, if not outright the best damage dealers, providing both high damage numbers and the highest damage effectiveness, of their tiers, being comparable to even some statistically overperforming premium ships. This is especially pronounced on SEA which is the only server where CVs enjoy a decent playerbase. Current T8+ EU stats sorted by average damage: Same for SEA: And as shown here: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/212389-cv-fact-and-fiction-by-the-numbers/?tab=comments#comment-4946221 CV top performance remains practically unchanged. But go ahead. Provide definite proof that CVs are not overpowered just as we've been asking for for several pages at this point.

According to official statement the next CV line is going to be Axis. Aka likely German because German stuff sells on the EU server regardless of how terrible it is.

It's funny how mired you are in hypocrisy given that this is the only thing you're caring to defend and not the other points which have to do with the actual topic at hand. Also this: Huh, so I suppose just because I've played Enterprise most means hundreds of battles played in other CVs have no meaning? Then I guess that also makes your and likely @MRGTB's experience in CVs non-existent then in comparison, meaning that by your own words the amount of battles played is insufficient to judge CVs? Or will you admit that this is a sufficient sample size? And you were saying something about "parroting" LOL.

Ahahahahahaha - says shutdowns are terrible game design - is given examples of how shutdowns are frequently and successfully used in game design - "omg you're twisting my words and just want to turn WoWs into an esport title" Do you even think before you post something this hypocritical? Also saying that Act of Aggression was alive to begin with would be a stretch given how poorly it sold. We're also still waiting for all that proof about how CVs are not overpowered. Here's something funny tho: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/212389-cv-fact-and-fiction-by-the-numbers/?tab=comments#comment-4946221 And I guess my hundreds of matches in the other CVs mean nothing? Like really, can you even bring up an argument that doesn't defeat itself? E.g. my Shokaku pulls similar stats. What now? So I suppose everything you've said so far has no value then?

Arms Race is terrible. Even when there is only a single gigantic cap on the map the average potato still manages to sail around it. I say to balance the game around the average player all gamemodes should henceforth just be team deathmatch with no timelimit. Clearly everything else requires too much brainpower to handle.

Precisely, so how does a CV not auto-win against surface ship assuming skilled play? And I guess this is why WG also increased the rate of fire dramatically so that in the end it matches up or exceeds the previous alpha strike? This is funny given that we've been asking for proof constantly yet you have to deliver once. All the things you have so far quoted such as that CV average damage being supposedly somewhat equal to cruisers has proven to be incorrect in light of recent statistics. Which btw is also "parroting" certain CV players here who are known for their blatant lies. Hypocrisy much? How about you go and present actual data that is representative of the current situation instead? Shooting over cover inherently requires another ship to spot, this means the CV naturally has a tremendous advantage over surface ships here. Torping from stealth has a number of counterplay options to completely avoid taking damage and take map control away from the ship that is torping. Such ships also take inherently more risk than the CV because their classes are actually encouraged and effective in fighting each other, making them self-regulating whereas CVs do nothing but grief other classes and largely ignore each other. Not only is a position out in the open ironically the best position to be in against a CV, meaning that pretty much any map other than Ocean automatically provides an advantage for a CV, CVs are currently powerful enough to fight and win against multiple ships. Whether the game is created around 1 on 1 encounters is therefore irrelevant. But not only that, the moment that groups reach a size required to actually effectively deny CV attacks is also the point where the team loses all map control, meaning the enemy CV wins regardless. There is currently no scenario whatsoever in which a surface ship can triumph over a CV regardless of how many there are assuming skilled play. How exactly are average players, which if I need to remind you fail in every class, and thus your experience against them relevant to objective balancing?

Popularity of a ship has very little to do with how strong it is, as can be seen by e.g. Shima still being the most played T10 DD by far, having almost as many players this week as all the others combined. In high tiers CVs are currently the best tech tree damage dealers by far, rivaling many premium that are statistically overperforming. The trade is incredibly uneven to the point where it is completely inconsequential for the CV. THIS is terrible game design, not shutdowns and auto-wins. In fact shutdowns and auto-wins are often found in successful esport titles and tend to occur if your opponent misplays terribly.

Then in what situation does a CV lose which doesn't apply to any other class pray tell?

- make DDs incapable of attacking each other - make DD torp homing and able to be steered into their target up until ~1km of a ship. An automated AI defense system that is easily outmaneuvered will be created to "counter" this and be given to all ships - increase DD torp speed by about 3-4x and make them ignore terrain - decrease DD torp alpha but increase their rate of fire so that it matches up to about the same damage output as before - increase DD torp range to infinity - make DDs be able to only be controlled by auto pilot while steering torpedoes, make them immune to DoT and give them a DCP that lasts for 1 minute base This will create a system that is perfectly balanced and provide a fun and engaging experience for everyone involved. Wait, this all sounds very familiar....