El2aZeR

There has been no significant update to AA since 0.8.7 and current AA strength is extremely pathetic.

Rockets are far more reliable and way easier to use. Also AP DBs are a terrible concept to begin with. And how will you know? All we currently know is that AP rocket performance is supposed to be similar to 203mm AP shells. In fact a penetration from an AP shell typically deals MORE damage than a penetration of an HE shell. If you can get them to reliably fuse AP rockets will actually be more devastating against DDs. Or do I need to remind you of BB AP penetrations on DDs? On the other hand if they cannot fuse on DDs nor deal meaningful damage to BBs then AP rockets will basically have to wipe cruisers with a single or at best two squadrons used to be remotely viable. The concept in itself can only result in a broken mechanic. Something that describes the rework as a whole.

Changing DD AA from "worthless" to "worthless" wouldn't do anything quite frankly.

On average Midway HE bombs dealt 25k damage and AP bombs 20k damage to a Yama. It's still ~10k damage short of a kill. 30k+ strikes were possible with HE DBs but the exception rather than the rule and it was likewise possible to get less than 15k. You needed DoT to guarantee a kill which, again, is more likely to get with reworked CVs as it is much easier to set up without interference. Not to mention DBs serviced significantly longer than TBs. So it's RNG vs a consistent and guaranteed kill even if you assume all planes get through and there's no fighters coming to cover you in the time the DBs have to spend idle. I know which one I'd rather be targeted by. Since you're talking about potential that means average numbers are completely meaningless anyway. Not to mention wows-numbers shows total averages across all versions and is thus inherently inaccurate- https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/212389-cv-fact-and-fiction-by-the-numbers/?tab=comments#comment-4946221 Here we can see that RTS Midway was an outlier (expected as she was in fact far too powerful after she got buffed in the loadout rework along with the broken AP bombs), most CVs are just as dominant as they were previously. So even in this aspect the rework has done precisely nothing.

Except again reworked CVs deal the same amount or more damage in the same timeframe as RTS CVs. Lets again take that Yama for example. As proven by the gif above a full on RTS Midway TB strike would deal roughly 60k damage to a Yama. That Yama now has 3-4 minutes before that Midway would be able to return and attack again, a kill therefore occurs at best at 6-8 minutes or even longer if the Yama was able to freely heal up with no interference. There is also no possibility of DoT to accelerate the process if both TB squads are used in the initial attack (as they should be). A single full attack with reworked Midway TBs currently deals roughly 15k damage to a Yamato. 2 attacks are guaranteed, giving us 30k damage. Reworked CVs attack at a ratio of roughly 2.5x compared to RTS CVs, meaning that the Yama is pretty much guaranteed to die after 6 minutes latest from alpha strike alone with heal factored in. There is also the possibility of DoT accelerating the process unlike with RTS CVs. And things only get worse once you factor in AA strength. I distinctively remember the last time I was attacked in my Monty by 3x RTS Haku TB squads. I killed half of them on the approach and the other half when they tried to get away. This means in such a situation I've actually taken less damage and punished the enemy CV way harder than I would have against a reworked Haku. So no, objectively speaking there is absolutely no improvement. If anything the contrary is true.

Except again, that is objectively not the case. Against RTS there was in fact counterplay (albeit limited and poorly designed) against CVs regardless of how skilled they were. There is no such thing in the rework. If for example I try to kill a skilled, properly positioned and partially AA spec DM or even just ships in their vicinity in RTS I would get deplaned, meanwhile in the rework I'd be able to kill him with minimal losses. People condemn the rework for making CVs a class with no counterplay whatsoever while addressing literally no issues RTS had. Even the above situation you described would in fact be much worse in the rework. That Yama survived the strike, meaning he then had 3-4 minutes to reposition and heal up. In the rework planes would be on station in a minute to finish him off assuming that is even needed. A cruiser could effectively defend itself and punish the enemy CV using DFAA which is no longer an option. A DD can seek to be within up to 8.6km of a friendly AA ship to be safe from fighter spotting while still providing utility for the team, a concept that no longer exists, use DFAA for those DDs that had it to just outright kill the fighters, also no longer a thing, or smoke up which is its sole option today. To paint RTS as "true hell" and reworked CVs as an "annoyance" in comparison is thus objectively speaking nothing but a blatant lie. And if you want to discount the best players, even against potatoes the rework is much worse as they're practically unpunishable what with AA being pathetic and plane reserves being way too big in comparison.

And a reworked CV can do it in quick succession about as fast as the RTS CV. In fact there'd be no need to spot a DD, you can just outright kill him. Meanwhile AA if specialized for it actually did its job and CVs fought each other too. So I fail to see where you're going with this narrative of "omg RTS CVs were so much worse" even in pure damage terms when reworked CVs have practically the same damage dealing capabilities. (Ofc this is not to say that RTS CVs were fine or anything. They definitely weren't.)

Which was a separate point to "impact" entirely. I literally just rewatched that video. How about you do that too? Yes, how dare we want AA that actually works back. (skip to 12:20 if timestamp doesnt work) Also funnily enough a current Midway TB strike, assuming 2 attacks, currently deals about 30k damage while also cycling ~2.5x as fast, meaning the amount of damage dealt in the same timespan is actually the same or higher with reworked CVs in pure alpha alone. By pointing towards this as "broken" you're automatically saying that reworked CVs are equally broken.

It is ridiculous that this is being considered in the first place. Because to offset the utility provided by normal rockets, which are already extremely effective against cruisers too, AP rockets will have to basically two-/threeshot cruisers or something equally ridiculous, otherwise it will never be worth using them.

Ahahahaha, you're reaching so much it's incredible. How about you actually go watch that vid? The latter of what you claim isn't even mentioned and the former aspects which still exist perhaps even to a larger extend today were deemed as having too much impact.

What an absolute joke. As proven by countless other games, or any medium really, if you do more things that your community likes you'll also hear positive feedback more often. If you do the contrary the feedback you receive is naturally going to be mostly negative. So if the general tone of feedback is often negative that's a sign that you're often taking a direction your community dislikes, not some kind of made up bull about "lol internet culture".

Aha, so when something has a disproportionately high impact on a match, aka too much power over it, it isn't overpowered? Yeah, okay. Please do tell what the supposed definition of "overpowered" is then since it is apparently not "having too much power"?

You have got to be kidding me.

"High impact" deemed as a problem. You do know what "corporate speak" is, right? Someone on the NA forums has already brought this argument, giving us this player as an example of someone who excels at all classes except CVs. Also keep in mind this is a reroll, meaning that average stats are actually representative as they're not diluted by a learning curve. Only issue is a low number of battles played. https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1030994352,DolphinPrincess/ Displaying a solo WR of 70% in all surface ship classes. This pales in comparison to the highest solo WRs in CVs which can go beyond 80%. So even in SU statistics CVs are an outlier and not the rule. Then clearly your lack of game knowledge is presenting itself. Even when not able to deal any damage both cruisers and DDs have secondary roles to play which can have high impact on a match. CVs meanwhile are built around damage dealing only.

By WG? Also implying that current CVs aren't "unattractive, poorly implemented and even worse "improved" lul. You likewise seem to ignore that surface ships could in fact effectively fight against a CV no matter how skilled they were. This is perhaps best showcased by me consistently losing half a strike on approach to a Musashi of all ships when I attack one with a Saipan on the CN server. So to claim that you could just wipe out ships without counterplay during RTS is nothing but a blatant lie. Honesty indeed seems to be something you are severely lacking. On the contrary as there is in fact much more statistical data available rather than only average stats. E.g. as previously posted skilled CVs dominate just as much as they did before. This proves that the impact of CVs, previously deemed a severe issue, hasn't changed at all. Even when ignoring statistical data though a basic analysis of the design of the rework will easily reveal that it is nothing but a 0/1 switch in which CVs are either blatantly overpowered or completely useless, hence fundamentally broken.

That's supposedly an impossibility as it denies one of the fundamental reasons for the existence of the rework.

Even if, since RTS CVs were claimed to be broken and overperforming it can only be the latter.

And compared to the last snapshot of RTS: we can see that the numbers have practically not changed. And since RTS was deemed broken enough to warrant a complete rework I suppose this is an indicator that the rework is broken as well. Thank you for proving our point I suppose.

He actually proves that the difference between his weighted averages and my total averages is in single digit percentages and therefore completely negligible. So yeah. Cold hard numbers indeed prove that top CV players are just as dominant as they were before. In fact the above "correction" he gives actually bring RTS Midway even closer to reworked Midway. Do learn to read, please. Unless ofc you are deliberately ignoring said "cold hard numbers" because you don't want to admit that CVs are blatantly op? I'm sure all those DDs I'm killing within those first two minutes of the match are feeling the same way. Likewise with that Bismarck who though he could rush me and received over 30k damage in less than a minute. And I'm not even using Enterprise. We've already provided evidence based on statistics, game design and gameplay experience that CVs are not fine. The burden of evidence is very much on you at this point.

Because camrade.

Well, clearly he didn't look at MMM close enough. Otherwise he would have seen the sea of red on mine and the amount of green, blue and purple on your team. Which is really the sole reason I chose to make your experience fun and engaging, really. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On the contrary HE and fires are clearly not powerful enough. Unless it's fired by glorious BB master race ofc.

Weird, I always go for Kidds because in 90% of all cases they'll have their AA on thinking it does something against planes. Same with Frieslands.