El2aZeR

I too would diverge to something completely irrelevant when I've been proven wrong to hide it. /s Which changes that these players have a valid point... how exactly? Do I need to be a rocket scientist to know that having a fuel leak is not something that's good? I mean sure, you can make potato CVs fail harder, but what exactly does that have to do with complaining about reworked CVs being inherently broken? Should people wait until they're beset upon by a SU CV player before complaining? Or should surface ship players just accept that their own skill plays no part in CV - surface ship interaction and whenever they are capable of "countering" the enemy CV that they just got off with pure luck via the enemy CV being bad? Besides, you can justify any broken mechanic by using that kind of logic. There are people who manage less than 20k average damage in a Musashi e.g. Does that suddenly make the ship okay?

We've already had them.

Yeah, seems like a perfect fit for this game.

It does however prove that all you need to do is git gud. If you refuse to do that, your loss.

Alright, allow me to explain to you all why Halland is a terrible anti-CV option in randoms. Please feast your eyes on exhibit A, B and C: Halland is a thicc DD that regularly takes horrendous damage from rocket and HE bomb strikes, to the point of where the damage will rapdily outpace her own heal. Given that Halland, like all PEU tech tree DDs, does not have smoke to disengage that means unless you want to be worthless and hug teammates all day long to no effect you're simply gonna have to be content with DYING hard and fast. Notice something else tho? If not, here is exhibit D: Not counting her main battery Halland has a grand total of 7 AA mounts. Like on all DDs these are clustered together in close proximity, a single successful attack can therefore easily wipe out up to half her AA strength, but regardless every single mount lost is a gigantic chunk of DPS now missing. Attacking a Halland successfully with rockets 2-3 times basically eliminates all her AA potential and makes her an easy pick for any ordinance you might send after her. And again, a Halland does not have the means to prevent this due to a lack of smoke. But at least you'll shoot down a lot of planes, right? Well, given that the amount of planes a CV fields is practically unlimited most plane losses suffered are going to be irrelevant anyway. As such Halland actually fails quite hard as an AA option since "AA effectiveness" is measured in how long you can keep the enemy CV occupied rather than survival or eliminating planes.

*Sigh* Yeah, I'll be on this shortly. Just lemme finish lunch.

Rather ironic that you mention StarCraft given that this is a game balanced from the top down, meaning 99,9% of all players are in fact completely irrelevant to balance and only the very top matters. You have just proven our point about how broken CVs are in addition to eliminating your own.

Allow me to demonstrate why your post is pointless to the topic as it conveys faulty information. - A lone fighter won't stop anything given that generally DD AA is not strong enough to stop a CV from despawning it. All the friendly CV does is give your position away. That's right, your own CV trying to provide fighter cover for you is actually griefing you. Fun design, isn't it? - Doesn't help. The CV knows when it is detected, this can be used to determine the location of a DD pretty easily. Shutting off your AA makes it a bit harder, but to any smart CV player it makes little difference. - So you've blown a precious consumable for nothing but survival while the enemy CV, having made you worthless to your team, is now free to kill another target. This is not outplaying the CV, this is the CV outplaying you by merely existing and passing by in your general location. There are no downsides to a CV forcing you to smoke, there are plenty for you as a DD. - Why play a DD then quite frankly? If you're this restricted in your movement and therefore effectiveness as a gunboat DD then you may as well play something else entirely, making your entire sub-class obsolete. - Yes, it's great design that supposed "supporting actions" are griefing in reality just like every other aspect of CV play, no? - Again, a CV has little to no trouble determining the location of a unspotted DD by using the mechanics provided to them. 3km air spotting allows for first approach strikes. Staying only "somewhat close" means the AA of friendly ships is practically useless as they provide less AA than you have yourself in even a Shimakaze. For effective AA cover you need to hug up to half your team inside 2-3km which is an untenable prospect for any DD. Clearly you don't given that you believe shutting off your AA means a CV has to spend considerable amount of time finding you. So basically you're telling DDs to go afk for the first two minutes given that this has about the same effect. Such great design. Truly not broken at all. Yes, the CV has now forced you to use smoke to no detriment on his part. Again, amazing design. Not stupid at all. The description is just plain wrong. A more accurate wording would be that the CV has done its job zoning you out from caps, already placing a massive advantage in the hands of its team not even 2 minutes into the match. And that you seriously believe you can just retake caps when a CV is the outright best cap defender in the entire game is extremely laughable. Which just goes to show how laughably broken reworked CVs are given that they can do this within the first minute of the match, not to mention that they can not only provide their team with a health lead in DDs but an outright kill. I'm sorry, weren't you talking about how CVs are no trouble at all? You've basically just stated "if the other guy gets griefed but not you it's all fine". Sure, the stuff you describe may work against potato CVs, but that's not you succeeding against the CV, that's just the CV player failing. The outcome of any engagement thus lies solely in the hands of the CV player, your own skill plays a minuscule, if any part in it.

I hated Seattle as well. My primary gripe with her were the firing angles.

Ja, die AA der EU DDs ist halt übertrieben. Deshalb kann sich die Öland ja auch gegen T4 Flieger zur wehr setzen, ne? Aber das hat mich doch bestimmt ganz, ganz viele Flieger gekostet, oder? Ja, die 5 Raketenflieger und 3 Bomber die ich an die verloren habe haben mich schon sehr krass eingeschränkt, muss ich schon zugeben.

He's talking about ranked where heal buffs exist and will outright negate AA. Funnily enough that too demonstrates how pathetic AA is given that the amount of % HP heal buffs restore is fairly small.

On the contrary unless you're a potato finding DDs isn't particularly difficult in a CV. You literally have mechanics that help you in this regard. No DD AA can inflict meaningful losses on a CV. There is no "he'll waste a lot of his planes" scenario here. On the contrary people bring up old issues because they haven't been fixed. That you even believe this is the epitome of ignorance and bias. Rather ironic given that CVs are allowed to kill everything without consequence and anything their opponents can do about it. No, it proves that the CV player in question is incompetent. Nothing more. Good players do not "trade". That implies that there is some kind of downside to what they're doing in a CV. To good CV players plane losses are irrelevant, they do not trade anything.

The older versions of Islands of Ice were actually ranging from decent to pretty good. Could have used some minor tweaks like perhaps all maps, but overall I liked them very much.

Ja man echt, diese EU DDs sind halt auch bockeschwer anzugehen. Die verlieren nicht mit jedem Angriff quasi die Hälfte ihrer natürlich voll starken AA und 'n Drittel ihrer HP. Diese 11 von paar-und-30 Raketenfliegern, die ich pro Spiel ins Gefecht führe, habe ich ganz schmerzlich vermisst. /s falls das einer net mitgekriegt hat.

Witzig, CV fahren hat mir beigebracht, dass das nicht geht. Und erst recht nicht in low tiers.

Apparently WG is testing something in regards to CV spotting according to the discord Q&A.

That's rather ironic given the reality of CV play, no?

I would like to know how you can "use" your AA when AA is completely automated and only the CV is in control over how it behaves. Again, pretty much everyone in the top leagues is saying that the meta has become more stale and static, giving matches as well as the viable team lineups to back that up. You have given no evidence to the contrary. Again, plane kills are completely irrelevant due to it not separating kills on fighters and strike planes as well as being dependent on the skill of the CV player. I can also show you several 200k+ damage matches in rework CVs if you'd like where the CV in question has lost a completely irrelevant amount of planes. I fail to see the relevance. Stalingrad has a lot less AA than a Cleve. And Cleve isn't a very strong AA ship after the rework to say the least. How about you educate yourself on what you're talking about before spreading your ludicrous ignorance?

Here are mine. Not particularly original as I just used a template then added stuff on top:

Your narrative is so hilarious I have to question whether you even used your brain before writing down what you just posted. 1. There has been no change in the "hegemony" of purple clans as can be seen by the leaderboard posted previously in this topic. This makes your ludicrous accusation moot. 2. Somehow you seem to be the only one who believes that fights are more dynamic now contrary to the opinions of pretty much every top clan in the high leagues, which raises some questions to say the least. Then again I suppose that could also just be your point of view in Squall/Gale League, but at that point one has to consider whether it is even relevant given the "meta" there.

They don't as is proven by randoms, ranked and especially CBs. Also again, if terrible players are relevant then shouldn't CVs be removed? Evading the question doesn't make you seem smart. Getting Confederate with Enterprise, or any CV really, is incredibly easy. Getting the achievement within the first 10 minutes is likewise not particularly difficult. The reason why you don't see any 300k+ damage matches on Youtube is because they aren't featured, not because they do not exist. To even pick Youtube videos of all things as something representative is hilarious at best. Yes, bad CV players lose planes. So what? That doesn't mean you're countering the CV, it just means the CV is misplaying heavily given that you have no control over your AA whatsoever while the CV is actually in full control over how many planes he loses. And frankly plane losses themselves aren't a measure of how powerful AA nor CVs are given that fighters exist and there is no differentiation between them and strike planes in the planes shot down statistic. Oh, look, 105 planes lost of which 38 have no impact whatsoever on reserves. If you really want to take plane kills as a measure of how powerful AA is then AA is completely worthless given that 50 plane kills is roughly equivalent to 1/3rd to 1/4th of the amount of planes a CV can field over a match depending on the CV.

Except previous seasons were played with radar and it was just fine. Thus CVs are the issue, not radar.

We are already back to the situation before the rework. It's just that WG removed the odd-tiers to make CV encounters much more frequent. Player numbers as well as match impact have however remained the same. A team with a skilled CV player vs a team with an unskilled CV player is still just as likely to win as during RTS. Besides, if terrible players are relevant to balance then the argument can be made that CVs need to be removed as terrible players cannot deal with them. Yes, all classes take skill. However with the very exception of CVs all classes also take skill to play against. Against CVs meanwhile the skill of the surface ship player is completely irrelevant because interaction is completely one-sided. The CV player is in complete control of the engagement. I also fail to see how this is supposed to be some kind of answer to plane losses being completely irrelevant assuming sufficient skill? In fact I just found out today that a Drake using sector reinforcement and DFAA is incapable of downing Enterprise rocket planes faster than Enterprise can respawn them with Halsey enabled. That's how pathetic AA is nowadays. Again, there is no counter to aircraft because there is no interaction with aircraft to begin with. Unlike against every other class if the enemy CV is skilled you have no options. If you are able to "counter" a CV then you have not done anything, the enemy CV has just misplayed.

It's definitely shopped. Oh the irony.

Doesn't matter given the minimum air concealment of a Hayate is so bad that even frontal first strikes are possible. Then again as a CV player you should know this.