Verblonde

As far as I understand it, there are a couple of strands: Some people object to 'recycled' content, which I can see, but I don't get too excitable about this, as long as the new stuff doesn't dry up as a result (which I don't believe it has, so far anyway). There may be some objections to decent premiums being locked behind a 'grind' (or pay) wall, with no other ways to get them; this is hardly new though - WG have form here from WOT, for a start. What would be a problem is if any such premiums become essential for one of the competitive modes, as that would force people to regrind regardless of whether they wanted to or not. The *potential* serious problem for me revolves around the LUs and their upcoming rework (which relates to what caused the original freakout on this general subject): if the LUs are reworked such that they become essential, you have to grind. With the existing system, most of them were side-grades that you could manage without, so the grind needed to get them was optional. If WG keep the LUs (and everything else in the RB) as optional - as far as succeeding in the game goes - then no problem, but this is WG we're talking about... I don't really mind the move of LUs to the RB (although keeping the old missions *as well* would have been optimal): as others have observed, with the old system you had to grind with one specific ship; with the new system you have to grind (so, same old), but you can do it with several ships - so, variety. An issue that people have identified with this though is that you can spend real money (through xp conversion) to do it. This latter I don't really mind either though - beer and ladies of negotiable affection won't buy themselves.

This is always the way with containers, although some seem to be better than others; it's been a while since I bought any of the Great Eight ones, so I don't recall any sense of how generous they are (although, doesn't completing the collection give you one of the Ovenchicken captains, who are very much worth having if you play DDs?). My feeling is that the containers might be worth buying if you need to complete the collection, or need the guaranteed contents, but they aren't worth it if you're after ships. If you sign into the shop, you can see a couple of options for Ovenchickens which reduce the RNG element, but they aren't cheap: They also all contain 'bumpf' which - to some at least - reduces the value of the bundles (we can almost all generate silver easily, for example)...

I think doubloons is unlikely, given WG's history, although you could make a case for it now they've let things spin out of control. Damage mitigation and all that... A replacement T10 permaflage from the start would have probably prevented this in the first place though.

(I've also just noticed: we're on 23 pages about this now, on this thread alone; regardless of which side of the argument you're on, WG really do need this gone!)

I'm not sure this would defuse enough of the ill-humour, as it would be perceived as still penalising those who paid money: You pay money, you get (and keep) a silver T10 with permaflage, and gain a semi-premium ship with no permaflage. You pay nothing, you gain a semi-premium ship *plus* a cammo worth 5,000 doubloons (assuming pricing is consistent across T10s). The issue I see is that the permaflage buyers in your suggested scenario are still worse off than the people like me who didn't bother with permaflage on their Moskvas... As I said earlier though, at this stage, opinions are pretty much solidified; WG have to decide whether they care about all the ill-will they've generated as they need deeds to fix things, not more staff members telling those who are angry that they're wrong (because that approach *always* works well with ill-tempered punters). Basically, what is needed is something given to the spenders that is worth (and perceived to be too) 5,000 doubloons i.e. if people like me - who spent no real money - end up with a semi-premium with permaflage, then they - who spent real money - should end up with the same, *plus* a permaflage for a T10 silver ship (precise detail TBC). I think that's what is called for to defuse the issue.

Whilst - as I've said several times elsewhere - this is, I'm afraid, nonsense, it doesn't actually matter. A significant chunk of your customers (remember that word?) are of the firm opinion that they *have* lost something in the way this change is apparently going to be implemented. In customer services matters like this, perception is far more important than who is actually right (and you WG folk have spectacularly failed to change minds; it's not your fault - repeatedly saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it any more true/likely to be believed than the first time). Basically, WG now have a choice: Go ahead with the change exactly as is, and leave a significant chunk of the players (not just the permaflage owners - plenty of others are following all this) angry, less willing to spend, and more likely to (noisily) advise others not to spend. Take the hit and compensate those who have the permaflage (you've got the WiP figleaf to hide behind), spin it as a splendid exercise in listening to your customers, and go on as normal. As someone who sells things that are non-essential for a living (basically, anything that isn't food, clothing, or shelter), I wouldn't even think about this for a second - option two is easily the least damaging to WG. I say 'least damaging' at this stage as - yet again - WG have turned what should have been an easy win (exciting new ships, and the possibility of a nice freebie for the people who put in the effort to get Moskva - that ought to be a slam-dunk success) into a copper-bottomed PR balls-up of the highest order...

84 rpm per turret? Impudent...!

Thanks guys; I suddenly feel - if not a paragon of virtue - at least very slightly less depraved and wicked than usual...! (edit: missed a rather crucial 'less' in that sentence)

Sadly, I wasn't around when Kami R was available, otherwise I could play two Kamis *and* a Fujin. One after the other. Oh gods... I'm a bad person...

<with an almighty clanging splat, the Moskva permaflage thing lands>

Utterly unrelated to the topic, but I commend @YabbaCoe for the splendid frogs signature - the world always needs more Anurans...

My pleasure! Incidentally, there *may* be something else to have on the radar (although I haven't tried it yet): a CV player was complaining on another thread about having his planes ambushed by a pair of Ikea DDs; he felt it was unfair that there was a mechanic against which he had no counterplay. Once my irony meter had finished exploding, it occurred to me that this approach might be worth at least a bit of an assay, with some caveats: It still isn't going to work against a good CV driver. If you have two Ikeas in a team, and they're in the same place, that's no smoke cover for your allies from either of them (of course, that's a down-side of any smoke-free DD, but the more you have on your team, the more noticeable the issue), and you're covering a smaller proportion of the map than you would otherwise. If (two of) you are hunting planes, you're a mission kill whilst doing so i.e. you aren't doing the regular DD jobs (spotting/capping etc.).

It's happening over here too...

Didn't WG say that it would arrive at the end of April (or 'late' April, rather)? I'm guessing we'll get it a week tomorrow (assuming the usual 'new stuff on Fridays' sketch)...

Full secondary build DD...? I like the cut of your jib, sir!

I don't believe it will work though; said criticism will still happen, only it'll happen on other platforms on an ad-hoc basis - other platforms that a) WG have zero control over and b) possibly have better page rankings than WG's pages do...

I think you may be being optimistic - last I recall hearing, the talk was of reintroducing the 'missing' CVs as separate branches, and at the same tiers...?

That depends on your view of permaflage for T10s; I suspect our views differ on this point.

Not really, because existing Black owners didn't lose anything when Black moved to being for steel; they just had to put up with idiots like me having her too. The same will apply when she goes to coal in six months' time (or whatever it is) - I'll lose nothing, so no irritation and good luck to all the new owners who pay coal. From my perspective, that's all that's really required to sort this out (optimally, the cammo would work on either one of the new T10 Russian cruisers, and once it was assigned it behaved like any other permaflage i.e. no swapping).

Me too, but one struggles to be plastered *all* the time...!

They certainly should be (and I imagine the likelihood is a lot higher if their Russian customers are having a sense of humour failure too); thing is, big oars aren't even necessary - at this point, this is all technically WiP (even though the forum reps are trying their hardest to defend it), so WG can very easily change it to something acceptable and spin the thing in a positive "see, we listen to our players; this is the whole reason we publish WiP stuff" sort of way...

Just to check: if you take the three point captain skill Survivability Expert, it'll increase your hp pool; you probably know this, but thought I'd double check...

Cossack is excellent; as @Panocek mentions, her concealment is almost class leading (only Kagero 'sisters' are better, and only by about 0.1 km, assuming stealth builds all round); the British smokes and hydro are very helpful (mount a coal mod for the latter) and Cossack gets a speed boost which the regular line lacks. Cossack does require a bit more care to use, as you have to go to guns to do consistent damage (the torps are decent, but you only get one launcher) and managing the impact of that on your stealth is key to getting the most from her. AA is dreadful though, so you're food for any CV that can find you. T-61 is, tier-for-tier, a strong candidate for the best DD in the game (IMO); to get the most from her, you do need to have got the hang of the smoke/hydro combination, as that's where much of her utility comes from (vaguely similarly to Loyang a couple of tiers higher). Also, be mindful that you will periodically face T8s in her and they get nasty things like concealment modules and radar, which make life less comfortable for T-61. She's borderline OP against same tier/lower tier opponents though. Kidd is quite fun, but I personally prefer Cossack for the 'single launcher at T8' slot, although Kidd's heal is very nice (I *think* I may have got my first ever Dreadnought in Kidd) and she does have pretty decent AA for a DD, although it is much less glorious than it was before the reework. Most of the US DDs require that one be at least vaguely okay with guns (slow torps - yuk! - until T9), and Kidd is no exception to that. I find the French DDs rather hard work, as your stealth is appalling; they do stay fun higher up the tree (I have up to T8 at the moment), but fun isn't the same thing as effective, except in expert hands (so, not mine). If you like the smell of trying to get away without smoke, the Ikea DDs might be worth a look; they also have the merit of getting a heal, and have good AA (for a DD), although you do need to get the hang of the torps, which don't play like much else. I mention these as there is a T8 premium incoming, although I have no idea if it'll be any good yet... To return to your original aim of generating silver, it really is still about what you can do the most damage in, and preferably do it to smaller ships (with lower hp pools)...

+1 for quality reference...!

Short answer is probably to wait. Friesland is entertaining, but she's a very different proposition to 'regular' DDs due to the lack of torps. With regard to Smaland, it would probably be sensible to grind the regular line to at least T9 first, to see a) if you like them, and b) to get used to them (they play differently to the bulk of regular DDs too - no smoke, relatively good AA, and the torps are weird); after that, you'll know if Smaland is worth her ludicrous price-tag. Waiting also gives you a chance to see whether what else is coming down the pipeline is of more/less interest to you. Finally, there is something to be said for waiting until the Moskva thing resolves, as that might inform your choices too. Boring answer, but probably reasonably sensible.