Verblonde

C'mon - I did mention the reework...

Mine would be: Play DDs: exclude submarines. Play CA/CLs: exclude submarines. Play BBs: exclude submarines. Play CVs: I probably wouldn't, but if I must, exclude submarines. Whilst I'm not a fan of CVs, especially when you get more than one in a battle, the existing game was from the start (with the reework to be taken into consideration) basically designed around the interplay between the four classes; submarines bugger that up, so they're the only class I would exclude from my battles if I could.

Probably fair enough... Pretty, but boring, would be the succinct version. I didn't get a chance to try out the deck gun (apart from seeing what it did in the first half minute of the game), which might be fun. It's a shame there isn't a mode where everyone on both sides (apart from you) is a bot; it would be useful to be able to fanny around in such a mode without ruining things for other people, whilst getting a better handle on these things. Right there is the root of the problem with submarines: they're not suited to be crowbarred into the existing game with the four standard classes. They could have been a great addition in their own mode, whether multi-player on one side and bots on the other, or as some sort of solo thing. Whilst I know games suck with them in when you aren't the submarine, I may play a few more out-of-hours Coops to see if there is *any* merit to playing the damn things if you aren't a griefer. Luckily, being several hours behind Europe means it's easier for me to play Coop mode when other people aren't impacted by my actions. At the very least, the art department have done an excellent job...

Poor Feltcher though: she's been turned from a perfectly respectable member of the nautical community into the aquatic equivalent of a dirty old man in a mackintosh...! (Could be worse, could be a submarine...)

Bugger. I probably ought to do something similar (although I - unfortunately - have the premium submarines already: they were the worthless dross I had to get through before getting anything decent in the Satan Boxes); I'll have a look late tonight - my time - when I'll ruin things for fewer real people...

By avoiding all modes - besides Coop - that have submarines in them. I'm aware that this means that I will eventually be forced out.

This may well be a "19K games, or whatever it is, and you *still* don't understand the mechanics?!" thing, but I'd tended to think that - for the purposes of dodging anyway - that torps were more of less a 'point' thing, rather than - say - an angry sausage...?

I don't think you're wrong. Assuming the general reaction to submarines on here (what, 15% in favour, and most of those seem to just be juvenile griefers) is vaguely representative, then - presumably - WG feel it necessary to bribe people to play the things, so here we go... (Full disclosure: I did play a single Coop in a submarine late last night - the premium IJN thing, whatever that is - in a 'know your enemy' sort of way. Disappointingly, wasn't reported by any of the two or three human players on my team - slack!)

Nope: Poor final reward. Patch also introduces a new line of submarines, so I'll be playing much less than I would otherwise.

It could have been worse: I assumed the next BP would follow the model of the current one, and you'd get an early-access submarine at the end. I'm still calling it a day with BP though: I imagine the submarine enthusiasts will be out in force, so I think I'll be mostly avoiding the game this patch...

Or to put it another way, another reason to avoid the game and not spend any money on same... Definitely preferable!

There may be some truth in this here and there. My personal view is that I almost certainly could adapt my gameplay to deal with submarines - it wouldn't be the first time a change in threat/meta has called for that, over things like the CV reework, mushrooming of radar/hydro and so on. What's different with submarines, is that it's simply not fun to do so, and I don't have the time or inclination to carry on with an ostensible leisure activity when it ceases to be fun. If submarines were fun to learn to deal with, then you wouldn't hear a peep from me; because they aren't, the reverse is true. My hope is that they turn out to be a disaster, to the degree that WG are forced to rework them; although their record in this regard isn't stellar, there would at least be a chance that the results would be an improvement.

(For comparison, my Kami sisters average out somewhere in the seventies WR.)

Good point, well made.

It's early days, but I wonder if this announcement is the beginning of an acknowledgement that submarines have not been a riotous success? If they had been, would basic marketing not call for making a point of emphasising that the new + exciting + popular class was going to be available to play with and against in the mode?

This will be my approach. Let the submarine folk have their fun; I'll just go and play something else that's fun instead - not short of options.

What's the best surface detection you can get out of this thing; something like 7.7 km? DDs with cr4ppy sneakiness never really did it for me, so these'll just be another Coop line for me, I think, unless something changes drastically during testing...

Normally, I'm a sucker for pointless low tier premiums, but this is almost certainly a 'no' for me as well: I have to buy a bunch of gold to get it; on it's own that isn't usually a killer. Just yesterday, WG announced that Ranked is becoming a no-go for me (submarines). Because of the last point, the utility for me of extra gold just cratered (I have all that I need for Ops/Coop/Clans already, and I think the next BP is the RN submarines, so don't need gold for that either).

Per my earlier contribution, no-one can accidentally misunderstand the fundamentals of WOWS as this individual professes to; this is why I'm pretty certain they're some random griefer trying to amuse themselves by getting a rise out of people. Sadly, they seem to not be very good at it: a more competent troll would at least give the impression of having a greater level of understanding of the game than a badly concussed whelk...

Perhaps I'm not the only one who's actively avoiding submarine modes (Coop excepted), and they're hoping that we won't notice that another mode has been added to the 'no play' list... My guess (with no evidence) is that submarines may turn out to be similar to wheelies in WOT: felt to be a mistake, but there'd be too much face lost to remove them, so they'll quietly stop producing new ones after the current crop (RN ones could be the last) are all done, and hope the remaining ones don't get enough use to drive away commercially damaging quantities of players.

Presumably, server transfers that happened due to the Lesta - civilised world split were moved complete with existing stats? That was all going on last year, wasn't it?

FWIW I'm tentatively thinking Rong brothers for DD use (extra hp is useful in almost all battles), and the new chap for the various PA BBs...

Ah, I see you study the classics...

Most of my insight into the three ships you mention is based on Coop (I have all three, arguably twice in the case of Groningen/Friesland), so for use in proper modes you want others' feedback. FWIW Ägir is very good in Coop, for mission grinding, but that's true of most reasonably hefty cruisers that also have torps. My feeling is that it might be worth saving your free xp for other things, if the free xp ones are converting to coal: I tend to find it easier to build up decent coal reserves than spare free xp.