fnord_disc

Holy gods, what is happening here? I personally believe that KGV is not T8, and cannot be made T8. Let me explain why I believe this. If you read this and you also believe that KGV is not T8, don't take this as me endorsing the ridiculous conduct of this discussion. First some basic information. KGV 14" penetration (as best as can be predicted for the game) Penetration is a fair amount lower than the German 38cm. Minimum armor thickness necessary to keep out overmatch: 25mm Turret traverse: same as QE = 72s (this value is already buffed over historical values from 2°/s to 2.5°/s. It's unlikely Lesta will deviate from historical values even more) RoF: 2 RPM (unlikely Lesta will deviate) It's true that penetration is not the only factor deciding the performance of the gun. Saying that Bismarck and Tirpitz are doing fine at T8 with their lower-caliber guns with mediocre penetration is entirely correct, but it's a misleading argument for KGV. 35.6cm guns do not overmatch 25mm. This means that KGV would not overmatch T8+ cruiser bow armor, nor any battleship bow it meets; almost all cruisers that it meets could simply sail straight at it and torpedo it, taking minimal damage. The traverse is also far too horrible to fight at close ranges. This simply doesn't happen with Bismarck and Tirpitz. This is a massive weakness of the ship compared to its nearest competitors in caliber that cannot be argued away. To buff the ship to T8 levels regardless, soft stats or gimmicks would have to be introduced far above and beyond what Bismarck and Tirpitz had to be buffed with (torpedoes, secondaries, tiny citadel, hydro...). Lesta could make the citadel really small by culling some decks from the citadel hitbox and the belt is great anyway, but buffing the ship like that would only make it comparable in this area to the German BBs. Besides, NC and Amagi have pretty small citadels too. The ship would need a lot more buffing than just this. Even if you start adding gimmicks like radar, defensive fire, or give it low rudder shift... it's still not enough in my opinion. A KGV with defensive fire AND radar AND a 10s rudder shift would still be the worst T8 battleship by far, and most of this is down to the overmatch mechanic. A KGV with 15" guns that properly overmatch cruiser bow armor could be made balanced with some nice accuracy despite the horrible turret traverse, but not 14". I see no way to buff the soft stats of the ship enough to make the ship viable at T8. edit: I mean, is it theoretically possible to buff the ship enough to make it viable at T8? I guess! But I personally have no concrete ideas how to make this happen off the top of my mind. ...Radar, 14km base detection range, 10s rudder shift, improved heal like Warspite. I guess this would be playable at T8, but it would be a difficult and unusual ship that scales terribly for bad players. But is this what you want? A 10.5km ninja battleship with glacial turret traverse? The basic design inherits such stunning weaknesses that it requires massive buffs in other areas. Which is possible, sure, but is it really what the ship deserves?

There is a hidden minimum dispersion variable for every ship/gun that dramatically affects short range dispersion. It's the reason why low-tier battleships like Wyoming have really crappy dispersion at 4km and high-tier battleships like Bismarck are very reliable and accurate at the same range even though both ships have similar dispersion at long distance. I never see anybody mining this variable, so I can't really talk about Spee's minimum dispersion, but it could be pretty bad.

Spee stats from the PT. Note the 182m dispersion.

Karlsruhe has crappy drag on the shells and the DDs have good drag. That's really all there is to it.

Das ist eine Frage der Spieler und der Entfernung. Nicht jeder ist so dämlich, dass er auf simple Ausweichmanöver herein fällt. Spee kann sich heilen und Feuerschaden lässt sich zu 100% reparieren. Spee kann es sich erlauben auch mal 20s zu warten bis man einen guten Schuss auf die Seite hat. Man hat auch mit Myoko eine Chance. Aber ist Myoko klar das bessere Schiff? Nein. Deshalb finde ich es schwachsinnig, wenn manche ein klar konkurrenzfähiges Schiff hier so fertig machen. Hier herrschen etwas verquere Vorstellungen. Wir reden hier immer noch von einem Kreuzer, mit allen Vor- und Nachteilen, die das so mit sich bringt.

Du kannst mit Myoko nicht so fahren, dass bei dir alles bounced und du trotzdem alle deine Rohre verwenden kannst. Myoko hat einen 50° Winkel auf den vorderen Türmen wenn du wegfahren und trotzdem schießen willst.

It's the souped-up German hydro.

Mediocre. If you're only asking about arcs, then they're about as good as Japanese arcs. But with all the other stats in mind, like the low HE damage... The guns are reliable due to the generally solid arcs, but they don't hit hard at all, the AP penetration is poor, fire chance is poor. It's a strong line based on the stats with a lot of reliability (fast + stealthy torps that deal low damage, guns with good arcs that deal low damage, hydro).

Was that changed? China says 2.0. But even 180/1.9 isn't bad by any means. Like I said - it's halfway between CA and BB. For anybody who doesn't believe me: (The one CA with abnormally good dispersion below the line is Zao)

The big rumor is apparently that Spee dispersion is 180m at max range, which would be exactly halfway between cruisers and battleships. Which imo makes the ship really strong.

To be fair, you can easily pick both with the reworked skill tree.

It's balanced for sure if they remove the fighter. I just question the general wisdom of putting radar on battleships.

lmao Lesta

Nah, it hits the torpedo boats way harder. Akizuki will spam a lot of fire anyway. What is that funky camo, though? Does not look like the other Japanese camos at all!

The German DDs look like a lot of fun. There's no denying it.

From original Chinese 显示离你最近的敌舰相对于你的方位(即使对方处于隐蔽状态) = bearing to nearest enemy, even if they're hidden

Belfast/Leander/Perth/Fiji/Edinburgh Neptune/Minotaur

I sure hope everyone will have a chance to get it.

Oh, no, you're not getting away like that. First you said Simply wrong any way you slice it. Then you said together with data which does not support this claim. If the dispersion (not the sigma) is terrible, then yeah, it will have to be played at closer ranges. Do you have the dispersion? If not, then this is a statement that you have no meaningful support for. I don't want anything from the ship. All I want is you to stop spreading misinformation. I don't (really) care if the ship has good or bad dispersion. I asked you for the dispersion. How does that have anything to do with what I want?

Why would it be a brawler? A brawler? Really? With 100mm of armor and mediocre turret angles? Bad concealment? [edited]! The penetration is worse than Scharnhorst, sure, but it's still about double that of most 20.3cm guns. Copy pasting some random [edited]Chinese graph (which is accurate, but that's not the point) is an argument in favor of exactly nothing. 200mm of penetration at 16km is enough to go into the citadel of any heavy cruiser at any angle unless you auto-bounce. It's also enough to penetrate anything other than the main belt on battleships (upper belt, tapering parts...). You do this all the damn time. You repost information you collect from the same 3-4 random leak sites and add your own often completely mistaken analysis, and all it does is confuse players who don't understand the game mechanics very well. Unless you cough up dispersion values (not sigma!) that you poached from a supertester, these "brawler" assertions are just wild guesses without any merit whatsoever.

Because the updates are almost always on Thursday every three weeks. We know both the IJN DDs and the KM DDs are meant for 2016, but not the same date and the IJN ones come first. There are only two patch dates left. So IJN on 01.12 and KM on 22.12.

Oh, right. Apologies, I thought you were defending Darth_Glorious. Yeah, they're very good secondary weapons for sure. I guess I agree with that. If the ships had cruiser dispersion, then standard G7a would be plenty. So perhaps we can take this to mean that they ships will have battleship dispersion, as much as I disagree with that decision. It also explains the bizarre decision to give them a heal. In my opinion the ships would have been more enjoyable with cruiser dispersion, no heal and standard G7a 6km torpedoes. But we will see. The stats aren't final.

The torpedoes are strong and reliable, but the ship doesn't have nearly enough of them to use them as the primary weapon. And with 13km base concealment, you're not going to be torp'ing people very often. You have less torpedoes than a Myoko with worse characteristics, and are the torpedoes the primary weapon on Myoko? No. Related, a bit on the ballistics here:

Split is most likely Dec 1st, then German DDs and Spee Dec 22nd. It's the only way to fit the DDs into 2016 and not release them with the split, which is what the goal is according to S_O.