LongJohn_

And the single most hilarious thing whole day? Click Schors as secondary target. That poor thing literally melts away.

Ok. First good day with Bismarck. Well I played many others as well. 8 games with Bis, 62,5% winrate, 2270 PR and 85k average damage. What a blast. Got few Iowas frustrated while just angling against them, keep those secondaries blazing them and fired whole different targets with my main battery. When they frustrated and turned in to close the distance - well.. Turn guns and citadel the poor bastards.

Good ideas. Had an awesome day today. MM Gods favoured me in some way. First battle with Essex was T10 with Des Moines, Hindenburg etc and top of the cake 3-0-2 point and click Essex player. Still squeezed 147k or something out of it. Lost but ok game. Two others were insane. Got same noob Taiho on both cases, other one was crazy morning MM with T9 CVs, T7-9 BBs (5-6 per side) and few DDs. No cruisers. Won both later games. 66% winrate in three games with average damage ridiculous 192k. Shame I lost some planes in that strange MM game. That was a good opportunity to push a new dmg record.

Do I remember correctly that British actually had inferiour AP shells in their BBs at WW1 and that caused some bad results in battle of Jutland? The HE effect in the game are mostly just funny. The fires they cause on BBs. What is there to burn on real BB? Wooden decks? You can burn a CV sure, pen and cause fuel and bomb fires just like actual CV battles did in WW2. But this HE gunnery spam. It seems more like shooting napalm at those ships than HE.

Ok. Thanks. I might be a little too cautious with my fighters. I use them mainly to protect my own strikes and if the enemy CV decides to strike on the same paths I attend to use I can drop some of their planes. But overall planekills are only around ~20 a game so nothing decisive there. I've also tried to strike DDs at first. Some times there is that Minitaur rush coming right after first DD which is a pain but in many cases DDs run way ahead of main group and therefore vulnerable to air attacks. I am not a fan of that stock loadout. 2-1-1 with Essex really hurts on the hurt apartment. 1+1 strikeplanes so enemies like Montys and Iowas are pretty much safe, you can do single drop on them but no damage over time since senking one squad out of time is just feeding planes.. And overall you can also use already dropped empty DB squad to keep that hopefully wounded DD spotted. At least until enemy fighters spot you off or that DD cries long enough for AA assistance. Using fighters to that job feels very wasteful. 1-1-3 also is 5 squads overall - 2-1-1 is only 4. The crazy thing is I see full AS Essexes time to time. Is that 3-0-2 or something. Complete air-cancer.

Yep. I assume you use autodrops on DDs? So do I and find the results very rng based. Sure out of 7 bombs you can hit 1-2 and with 1000 pounder still cause significant damage but its still far from one-dropping. Proper crossdrop with 2x6 plane TBs should be pretty sure kill because you have to hit at least 2 torps. Of cource you can have good luck and cause detonation but thats also rng. I've got even double strikes like that some times. Hitting two different DDs with two squads and crazy luck... I think I'll have to experiment that stock 2-1-1 Essex loadout. I already know my avg damage is going down but maybe I can get better winrate. After all DDs have been pretty prominent factor in team wins. Those big and bad BBs are mostly useless if friendly DDs are dead and enemy DDs invade caps. Sure you can push but with great risks. Strike 1-1-3 is fun and causes lots of damage but you cant protect your DDs at caps. Not even against 2-3-2 Taiho not to mention another Essex with stock 2-1-1 loadout.

Idea of 1600 pounders is intresting. Curtiss SB2C Helldiver planes used such bombs from -43 on so it would also have historical reference. Maybe WG could give more versatility to bomb loads while deck loadouts are going static. Maybe you could choose in harbour between 500, 1000 and 1600 pound HE bombs or few different AP options. Planes cruising speed could have little difference between bombload - with heavier loadout you have higher damage potential but slower speed before drop... Drop pattern should be the same.

You seem to have excellent win ratio with Essex. Which loadout do you use? I've used 1-1-3 strike whole time but even while avg damage is good win ratio isnt that high and I cant for example protect teams DDs at caps which can be an issue. Naturally coming up 2-1-2 setup changes things and I think I have to start learning two fighter gameplay. Its going to be the way with the Midway as well. I guess I am in good position here. Midway is soon reseached so I can move to that if Essex goes ruin with the changes. I also have 1-2 free captain skillpoint available if it needs for example Dogfighting Expert or something that it doesnt have at the moment. Had it at Ranger since Saipan but it was useless at Lex so re-specced the captain.

Yep but is the comparison fair? I understood that Enterprice has 1000 pound AP bombs and comparison 500 pound HE bombs which is mostly firestarter, not damage. Is Lex still only CV at T8 with 1000 pound HE bombs? With good rng its normal to hit BB with 2x7 squads armed with 1000 pounders for 20-25k direct damage and 2-3 fires. As a followup to initial TB strike that hurts...

Oh I love that picture. No mather what its related. I have the Midway soon researched. If these changes take effect I think its good time to take it into action since even veterans are in new situation.

Yep. I think I'll have to experiment how it works. After all we dont even know are these changes really happening, its still work in progress. If those TBs are good with DDs you dont need to hunt them with DBs, you could concentrate them (with AP bombs) against capital ships. But naturally you lose damage over time effect unless you schedule strikes with TB and get flooding. Overall 2 squad DB strike with 1000 pound HE bombs (that destroy AA and cause fires which forces repair) followed by 2 squad TB attack sounds brutal...

Yep. Some just bunch their planes into big cluster, storm away and click the first target they see. Actually some times results are quite surpricing but that pile is also very easy to strafe down. Even how nervwrecking CV grinding can be - that gamestyle with very poor average results I call headbanging. So Enterprice 1000 pounders is close what to expect from T9-10. You cant select between AP and HE now, you just select as a loadout at harbour, not during gameplay. That was just an idea...

I've only seen some videos of deep water torps. I think some of those GZ testbeds used them. Seemed a bit confusing since you have to have detail information which ships you can torp and which you cant. Add AA ratings and ranges and all other mish mash into this and CV gameplay gets even more intolerable. Its a madhouse as it is - gameplay intensity is at totally different level compared to any other shipclass. One other thread some other player mentioned how do you have time to select manual targets to Bismarck secondaries. I say its childs play compared to map awareness, ship movement and squad management of CV gameplay. :) 1000 pound AP bombs would be very intresting. How heavy those Enterprice / GZ APs are at the moment? 500 pounds? When do they add Tallboys into the mix? :D I guess it would be even possible to adjust UI to have manual selection of DB armament during each rearming. You could actually choose which bombs those squads get depending on what you plan to strike next. But naturally this is also one more addition to mish-mash player has to go through. But I guess it could be ok. You just select bombtype before planes return to deck and rearming would go with selected stuff. But then again 3 DB squads, should they all select same bomb type or all have different.. All the same I guess. You cant use AP/HE mix with your main battery either while in theory it could be done. :)

Yep. Sometimes DB accuracy trolls but it works both ways. Single squad and 3 fires or 2 squads with 3 hits and 0 fires. But overall ok. 2-3 7 plane DB squads on any large target is plenty. +20k to BB isnt unusual and that hurts.

By the way I've noticed this discussion about BB overpopulation in the game. You who have played CVs with AP bombs (Enterprice, some GZ variants), could this be the way to handle this? What I know AP bombs work best against big and armored targets, aka BBs, while they are more or less useless against small lightly armored targets like DDs. Could the idea of deep water torpedoes be another way to change game balance? Just make CVs extremely powerful against BBs.

Yep. Stacking makes a huge difference. Even in lower tiers. You just overrun AA capability and even focusfire cant help. With single squad one by one its much easier to enemy AA. Even stacking one DB to go at the same time with TB makes helluva difference. If enemy ship is not AA spec your planelosses might drop to couple planes instead of over half single squad or if enemy is AA spec you might lose 4/6 TBs making them pretty useless but your DB squad gets though unharmed. Normally AA spec ships focus on TBs if there is such coming. If you feed them one by one you will lose them all every time. I think that Minotaur is a good example. Normally I leave them alone since most are pretty heavily AA spec but in same cases its vital to the battle to strike them. Minotaurs have great AA but no def AA. Def AA targets arent recommended because even while you lose planes you dont even hit anything. Naturally you can scare them by flying towards, they hit Def AA and then you just strike something else or wait def AA out. Good players know this and hit def AA only when planes are attacking.. But the Mino. Heavy AA spec with no defensive fire. Just like any high tier BB, mostly USN Iowa/Mis/Monty. Stack the attack aircraft and toi might lose one squad completely but rest strike unharmed. Stacking 3 DB squads to Minotaur is devastating. It can and will shoot one squad down but two get to drop and cause massive damage to such low armored thing. Sending them one by one is just free planekills to Minotaur. It will shoot them all down and that idea of damage over time turn to no damage at all.

Yep. Naturally actual gameplay will show. I've noticed the same thing with my Essex planes with the mod. For example attacking Minotaur, not to mention Moines which is basically just no no zone. But you can do it against Mino. Stack up multiple squads. For example attacking pretty healthy Mino (with AA pretty intact) with two DB squads. Sure it focuses one and shoot it down before drop but other one gets to drop and does good damage (since no defensive AA like many other cruisers). You can use this same idea against high AA BB targets. They just have good AA and focusfire one squad if properly specced for it. With two TB squads you should be able to get one squad to drop while other one dies. Naturally you can spice this up even more by overloading his AA even more with simultanious DB drop. With predicted AP bomb loadout this doesnt even count down tour damage since its all alpha strike, no chance for damage over time. Or then you can try what others have already suggested. Use HE 1000 pounders in those fast T10 DBs, drop them all across the ship, demolish good chunk of AA, propably cause +2 fires, burn his repair and then do a TB followup with couple floodings. That can be devastating. Allthough its pretty rare to see top tier BB all alone in full HP early in the game. Normally they do stack with other ships and thats no no zone to any plane. Later in the game they fall apart, AA is stripped through HE spams and things open up for CV. Of cource you can see a lone Montana or Iowa late game with pretty much full HP but a lot has gone wrong there. Your team sucks or the dude in Monty has been pretty useless. And even in the lasta case. Alone pretty much intact Monty. Its not a problem. I've bombed those to oblivion many times with my Essex. Just stack attacks to at least two squads per wave and schedule them for nice damage over time effect. I think these changes are going to change gameplay. With equal skill 2 T10 jetfighter Midway with better hangar should control the sky and now with 2+2 attackplane squads you can also cause serious menace to ships as well. With full strike you were outnumbered in fighters and Haku could control the action. How about using fast T10 AP bombers to alpha strike alone BBs and hunting down DDs with those torp planes. Like early in the game. You can easily stack two TBs to drop side by side ans cause very tight torpedo carpet to either sink or force DDs out of the smokes. This has been ok with IJN squads but not available to USN. Until now. And liie saod, carpet is more dense and you can slip pass it that easily. Or just crossdrop to smoke... Well. Lots of option.

True. Forgot to mention that. Speed can be an issue, planes have to be inside AA bubble longer. Health should be ok with the mod.

These deck changes sound intresting. Especially the Midway since I'll get it unlocked soon. Upgraded Lex TBs have 1710 health and with mandatory airgroup mod 3 it rises above upgraded Essex TBs health without the mod. So if you dont charge into full hp Monty straight away you should be fine. And even then they focus on one squad and other propably gets dropping... And like mentioned these are gonna be great for hunting DDs. Nice tight pack with crossdropping options.

Ok. Few games in the morning. Most T10s, pretty crappy results. One T8 before this game, my part ok but whole team just collapsed real fast. But this game. Finally a battle I made a difference and won it. Average results for most of you I believe but this is good for me and makes me quite happy. :) Actually almost mess it up twice. Only Mahans bad prediction of my path saved me. I have to be more careful while pushing.

Hi and thanks for the advice. Yesterday was pretty shitty overall. Is MM changed in latest patch since it seems there are a lot of DDs in play? These turn pretty fast into boring stakeouts catchy catchy games or one side just rolls over others DDs and battle is basically over. I admit I was pretty frustrated late of the day. I dont mind losing but being overall useless isnt funny. After all no-one expects T8 BB to carry T10 matches for example. DD might but not BB. That partially failed division was just the peak of iceberg. Two T5s, one being Oct Rev, and T6 DD thrown into T8 MM. Recept for disaster. To more pleasent things. Continued stubbornly playing Bismarck today. Thought to play little more aggressive but not knowingly stupid. Results were actually promissing. 14 games with Bis today, still very poor 43% winrate but decent 73k average damage. Broke 100k mark several times even in T9-10 matches. Actually got to win one with slight margin. Duelled Iowa with some cruiser help, won, cruiser died, I fled and we won by points with only fraction of health before Kurfurst could finish me off. That was satisfying. 2-3 battles where I finished top 3 on my team in T10 MM. Lost but I was happy with my results. 90-120k damage range. Took twice 1:1 slugfest with pretty healthy Conqueror, lost naturally both times but did good damage, sunk with my boots on and what a blast. One game citadelled Moskva 4 times sinking it, also sunk soon after but another T10 match with good results from my part. Also couple blunders. Messed up one top tier game being over eager, running into cap in Two Brothers and sunk in terrible crossfire. Only 8k done or something. Maybe got too excited after getting first blood from enemy DD - secondary kill from 10km range. Other case was also top tier game, pummeled Nurnberg and Bayern at the same time, Maas also popped in and out of sight getting some secondary attension as well. 138k or something in that game. Lost with points. Mistake was classical. Akatsuki in front unspotted, I chickened, started full turn, Akatsuki guessed right and almost sunk my [edited]. Very low health so no real chance to challenge two remaining enemy BBs. I should have just plowed forward with hydro on, spot and kill. Maybe take one in the nose, not three to side. Games also included two boring overruns in Ocean map. Doesnt even get into proper ranges with the enemy, T10 MM and both teams just run in circles around B cap. Poor results, lost both... Overall I start to like this ship. Main battery is ok, secondaries with manual aim are superb (difference is really huge to autoaim) and today I started to learn how tanky this ship can be. Naturally it falls fast if half the enemy team concentrates fire but I dont think that many ships can handle that anyway. Overall I dont anymore see ships like Iowa scary, angle good, keep secondaries working, keep your distance, shoot superstructure or use HE and you'll do ok. Overally I have to wonder some players in this game. Ok you can read things wrong and sail broadside on once. But some just dont take the hint. They do it over and over again. Citadelled some Kurfursts, Iowas, Yamato today... And that Moskva which is really tough bow on. 4 cits on three different salvos and down she goes. Really? I've seen this.. I have to call stubborn behavior with CVs as well. How in the heck do you get into T9 carrier while you have no idea how to strafe or do manual drops? Just send planes in one big cluster, click the first ship you encounter and hope for the best. Incredible. I know how hard ans even frustrating CV grinds can be but this I call streightup headbanging. I guess my pretty solid CV gamebase has its advantages. During CV gameplay you can also monitor how people play from the birdview and learn many things to other categories gameplay. Its absolute horror to watch how some players go one by one by some island, broadside on to waiting enemy BB. Even only one when they do it one by one. CV gameplay also teaches to follow minimap carefully and I've used this skill with my other categories. Where enemyships are, how am I positioned to them, how caps evolve etc. You can actually use this information more than with CVs where micromanaging your squads takes a lot of your time. With BBs I can check enemy positions, angle myself compared to them etc. Actually I think I time to time look the minimap even too much. I might not spot a huge carpet of torps since they dont show in the map before I get the warning signs and sounds. Lucky havent got totally screwed by it...

Ok. 20 battles on Bismarck today. Played only Bis. Good things: Grinded top engine, top hull I allready had, range module is also researched but not enough credits to buy it. Range is pretty irrelevant anyway. Main battery guns have been pretty good. I am much happier with them than Gneise rifles. Accuracy around 25% which, considering overall skill, should be decent. Got the manual secondary skill on the captain. Its day and night difference. Absolutely HUGE difference. Earlier accuracy rised from ~10% to 20-30% depending on battle. Naturally firechance could be better and of cource against higher tier ships they have the edge as it should be. Bad things. Win rate and average damage abysmal. Few games I messed up myself but then there just was unwinnable scenarios. In T10 match I cant do much with my limited skills. Propably play supersafe and get nothing done to the team. Average damage today just under 55k, winrate horrible 35% with 55% survival rate. I guess there are still things to learn. I think I angle ok most of the time while I wonder how many enemy ships sail broadside on even at top tier. Really strange. But I guess its like Negativv said. Watch the battle evolve and know when to push. Thats not easy. Some cases battle just doesnt evolve. Like some today. 100-0 to one side or the other. Boring overruns in minutes.

How do you play Bismarck against T10s? T9s is ok I guess and not being over extending Bis can be a bully at top tier. But those T10s. Today one or two games, win and a loss, didnt get that much done. Played safe and like you know Bismarck sucks at sniping. Mostly overpens, some random damage but not that influential to battle itself. How to be usefull in T10 match? Overall still learning. One good push today and team actually won by points. Nice +100k damage. Got torped bad at the end so couldnt help the team all the way.

Intresting choises. I played with that main armament mod with my Gneise but those guns were still very random. I have to consider this captain thing further after I grind my 14th for manual secondaries. Now they just blaze away all over the place. Hit accuracy is under 10%. Pretty much all other Bismarcks I've asked during games have used manual secondaries. I do agree with AA and CV gameplay. I played few games with my Essex today. Got one very frustrating loss because game crashed twice and enemy Essex had free reign over T7-8 ships. But also one ++200k damage game with T10s. Bombed one Monty to oblivion. Struck once, he repaired, struck again with two DBs, repaired, third was nearly enough with combined TB+DB strike. Didnt lose that many planes. Friendly cruiser took the final kill. Naturally I would have had better overall result by scheduling my strikes better. TB+DB strike first, repair and then quick double DB strike to follow. Lost damage over time there but still 78k to that Monty.

Yep and you have to proceed up to certain levels on each tree to see what line has to offer. For example T3 cruisers are pretty much the same, same with bottom tier BBs. I guess for example german bb line you start to see the lines benefits and drawbacks somewhere around T7-8.