Redcap375

Flamu thinks it's a Russian Bias monstrosity at the moment. I think even the streamers have given up now. He flamed the Smol and how bad it was for the game, just like the Grad. WG didn't/don't give a toss. It will be strong....Very strong, like we don't already know.

Looking forward to seeing it along side my Zao in battle. Caps are overrated, Lol. I am all for these kind of ships, really I am. I love Leader DDs and enjoy ships like the Harra. They are a different play style and i enjoy that. But I hate having nothing BUT theses on the team as it really handicaps you.

Thumbs up for spectator mode in training!

One of the best things they have done for a while.

Muppets will always be muppets. Some players will drag any ship down, even the OP ones. However, when sailed by a semi competent captain that has a basic understanding of the game, the Smol is a very potent ships and too much. But all that aside, even if it wasn't that strong....It simply isnt good for game in many many ways. We say it, the players say it, Clans say it and the streamers all say the same thing. So....Yeah., WG don't give a toss. it is that simple. I can kite spam you in the open, spam you behind an island or simply spam you from smoke. With 12 ships in the enemy team and the good range it has, someone will get it. Someone will have 3 fires on them. The moment I seen this ship in testing i knew just how strong it would be and I've been right. This was THE ship i was looking forward to and saved everything just in case it was steel, coal or XP. I loved the Gorz and the handling of it's guns so i know this was gonna be something. With that concealment, fire chance, torps, armour (over-pen), heal, defensive AA, i knew it would be strong. I mean come on. 130mm guns are one of the best around pound for pound and putting 16 on a ship, with that fire chance, was simply mad. Comical in fact by WG. The biggest shock was finding out it was coal! Couldn't believe it. I certain Clan who will remain anonymous were knocking around in 3 smols. The game I was in they managed to kill 3 each....EACH. I know how good that div is because we have also played with 3 smol and it's deadly.....DEADLY. However, we didn't want the amount of salt we were receiving and i don't blame them. We made the decision not to play that set up again. Our choice and were are not looking for a round of applause. "we are going to get reported, chuckle chuckle" If your div mates are saying that before the game even starts then you know how bad it is for the game. Anyway, just look at KoTS. Nothing to see here.

I cant even begin to tell you the sheer amount of screw ups i did in that short space of time from the time i appeared round that island to the moment he rammed me. It's like for those few seconds i completely forget how to play WOWS, never mind DD's. I wasn't even drunk too. I put it down to excitement in a brand new ship. However lessons are always learnt in every ship. This one was to equip IFHE!!!!!!! I never used it on the Jutland once but in that one moment, like 1-10 times, I really needed it

A shimmy used his torps, was behind an island, 2.9 km away, defenceless and all i needed to do was go round and kill him in my full health Daring (my first game in it). He rammed me The shame was unbearable.

Hate seeing Frieslands in my team if i'm being brutally honest. They are great support ships but poor DD's. I want a DD to do DD things and this struggles to do that IMHO. It takes up a DD spot. For god sake, give it torps and a heal. it's quite balanced for a premium but it does need some slight love. It's currently 11th out of 14 in the rankings and that's not great at all considering they are normally sailed by "good players" at the beginning. It's a HE spammer that you normally see along side light cruisers....So cruiser players don't like them. However, these will be the "ones" the get when subs come out so it could be a future investment, well until subs disappear. It's gonna own that department.

And???? That is the whole point of the thread or have you missed a few pages. 1) and again, that is the point of the thread and 2) do you think i don't know about AP on kaba/harra I think you picked this thread up on the last page and are getting things mixed up. This is in no way a bashing thread of any sort against the Harra, Kaba or what-ever. Hell i love the Harra (although the smol has superseded it now). It's to point out why we need to sub-class DD's and other lines. Because too many Leader DD's is really bad for your team. me and @xxNihilanxx was just discussing why 3 Kaba's (an example) isnt a good thing at all to have on your team. because like you, me and everyone else has pointed out they are not designed to take caps. they can but they are taking a massive calculated risk doing it and most won't. It's not their fault. So because of that, you end up not taking any caps at all whilst your enemy dedicated DD's are capping all 3. I've seen it too many times now and hence why i have brought it up. Both as enemy and friendly forces.

Of course and we all know that mate. I can cap all 3 caps in a Kurf if i really want....but it's not ideal. I just think splitting it down into sub-classes would help, just like the cruiser line should. But at the end of the day (and looking back) there are so many other "issues" that WG have to sort out first. The balance between the classes are so messed up (like shown in the tier 8 DD CB Meta) it's nearly impossible to sort out now.

Precisely. If you have a team of "DD leaders" then you won't cap a sausage because of the (correct by-the-way) mentally you have. You are totally at the mercy of your random solo teammates. Which isn't good in this game at all as i've seen more team-play in a game of chess. Div's are different as you can selection ships that go well together, like Radar + DD builds or double DD builds (Leader and normal). kaba and Daring is a great pair... But in a solo random games having all gunboats/leaders isnt good at all.

Bumped into @Freyr_90 and @MortenTardo in their 3 man SCRUBS Div on the enemy team yesterday. 3 Smol's Div....Yeah. They received so much salt from our team it wasn't even funny, well it kinda was. i say that because we have done that before but it just cheeses too many people off. Me in a DD so that was fun, but still managed to cap like mad, kill 2 and take a Hindy out on me tod. We lost badly with the SCRUB div killing 3 a piece, they did the usual smoke and spot, smoke and spot.... The game was over before it began due the make up of our ships and players. Nothing wrong what-so-ever with the Smol However, it was nice to see that you agreed with both teams and stating that it's "balanced, Lol". You had a laugh with all of it. Good to see you guys.

And I've gun-boated in a Jutland in open water? But if i meet you in a cap with your Kaba, and i'm sure you are a good DD player but...... It's not gonna end well for you. Like if i try and gunboat you one vs one in open water, there is only gonna be one winner. However you have to kill me on your terms where I only need to cap to get the upper hand and not out right kill you. If things become equal, I win every time purely on points and time. The more points you gain during the game, the more ships/Muppets you can afford to lose on your team.

No, no, no and no. Don't be one of those players that steam into a cap regardless of the enemy team set up and die. Are you gonna steam into a cap in a Kaba knowing the enemy team has a Black? With 4 radar cruisers in the game? Now calculated risks are different and in a way it's gambling, but it's a calculated gamble. Only 2 dd's in the game and 3 caps, so you have a 1/3 chance of coming up against that enemy DD. So if you are in something like a Kaba, you have a 1/3 chance to cap and not die as the enemy DD COULD be elsewhere. Then you factor in radar ship, their range and again take in the risk. Then you have the type of map and cover in said cap.. Its all taken in by the DD player. You then base your actions on those risks. Having 3 dd's on each team and 3 caps makes that calculated risk more of a risk, depending on the type of DD ect...So your so less likely to go into a cap in a Kaba. But we NEED ships to go into caps, just the right ones and that is the point of this thread. What is the long term gain? What does my actions achieve. Because if it ends up in a early death for little achieved then it's not worth it. Don't find out later, think for yourself at that time. He might rightly flame seeing his DD getting raped by the enemy DD that has better concealment then him, with hyro and followed by 2 radar cruisers! he will also take into account his own risks remember and it might not be the same as yours. Being a cruiser player, i know what i need to do to support DD's. but i cant help them if they simply steam into caps willy nilly not knowing the type of enemy. They will get out-spotted, radared and shot to pieces before i can really do anything much to help him. When i shoot, i expose my position and in a cruiser that can be deadly with 3 Yams around (in a Des). There is a difference to playing aggressive and being suicidal and most don't know the difference. You go aggressive all the time then it's never gonna end well. Alot depends on your ship type and what your "gimmicks" are. So that is the whole point of sub-classing DD's. You don't want a team full of Kaba's, your doomed from the start. They wont cap (and i don't blame them) so the enemy will always have the advantage. Just like CB's. The one who caps the cap first is on the front foot. Because the enemy has to react on the spot and many teams arn't good at that, when pressured teams do crazy things. You then put that into a random match and you have 12 different ideas how to get the points back and win the game. It's a model for disaster and people get killed very quick trying to pull the match back. I have just got the Daring and i love it. I loved the Jutland and this is just as good (still early days in it). I love it because it loves to CAP. It's a defensive DD that hovers around them and deny the enemy DD's. I do that and the enemy will lose. Time will run out, points will go up. This sums it up for me: My "DD leaders" have great damage but above average WR. My "Dedicated DD's" have lower damage but much higher (purple) WR. That is all down to caps and points (as well as killing the enemy DD). One of the biggest lessons ive learnt in WOWS is that massive damage doesn't win games. Its the damage you cause to certain targets and points/time that wins games. People can play what ships they want. If they wanna spam HE and all that then fine, it's an arcade game. But they cant blame others if they are losing more games then they are winning.

Everything is calculated being a DD captain. The Map, the enemy, the amount of radar, the enemy DD, the concealment ratings, the gimmicks of enemy DD's....Everything. No other type of class has so much muti thinking at the start of the game and during. If you can compute all this quickly and come to calculated decision on what you know, then you will do fine.....It''s the chaps that just steam into caps or kite from the beginning regardless of the enemy that lose it for the team. We cant change players minds, some people will be good at this and some bad. You wait until they add on ANOTHER feature to DD captains, like these subs? All that pressure already and now add on sub hunting! There is going to be so much salt going on against DD players as they are trying to do everything. BB gets sunk? It's gonna be the DD's fault.... Anyway, back to the thread. I am glad to see there are quite alot of people who wish to see the split. In the grand scheme of WG, it's small i know as there are so many other things that need to be fixed first.

Nail on the head, precisely and that's how we play most games. Daring/Kleber, Daring/Smol. But having a team of 3 Klebers isn't good. Having a team of 3 darings is from a cap contesting point of view. Having a mix is SOOO much better.

So shall we just take away the caps? No really, shall we just take away all the gamemodes with caps?

So you have a no CV and 1-2 radar ship game. You gonna avoid all the caps in the first 3 mins because of those 2 radar ships? No you are not, I wouldn't in my Jutland and just grab the caps under their noses. Please remember that i am ALSO a DD player. So i know the score when and when not to go into caps. But the though is always there to get the caps, because that is one of the main functions of a dedicated DD player. At some point you need caps unless you go for the murder, death, kill kinda game which seldom wins. In most DD leaders minds, capping the actual caps isn't in their minds, farming damage or supporting other DD's is. Which is fine if you have a dedicated DD to support but crap if you don't! Like i have said, it's not a DD bashing thread and i understand why those types of ships play like that. Hell i love the Harra, but it's not good having nothing but harra's in the team.

I totally agree with the rest...Apart from this bit ^^. We should always voice what we/you are not happy with. Things CAN be done. Not all of course (like some of the reasons above), but WG CAN do a few things to ease all of this. They just choose not too.

All i know is this.... 1) The average player is far below what it used to be, alot. 2) Teamwork and all forms of it in Randoms is practically dead. 3) Tier 9-10 is saturated with the same players at tier 3. No longer "the better player" or safe from muppets zone. It NEVER used to be like that.

5 kills in the DD dragging muppets to victory and all our BB had to do was shoot the cruiser with 1000 hp left. That is it. Me in the DD spotting the cruiser at all times. ..................The BB player went AFK in the last 1 min!!!! He got burned down by the cruiser within 6km and i couldn't do anything to stop it (413 HP left), lost on points! I got back to the port and the same guy was playing another bloody match. So this clown left the game at the end and started another one. I mean why the hell are players doing this?? I give up trying to understand these people.

In the UK it's now UTC +1. On Sun the 27 Oct the clocks go back to the same as UTC, which means it's STILL 1800 hrs. 6 o'clock is far too early for the majority of British People. How about you move it to 1900 hrs instead? So 8 o'clock CEST? 1900 -2300 isn't late at all really if most active is 1800-2200? Only an hour out and you will get more people involved from the UK. If the UK player pop isn't that much then fair enough having it as it is. But speaking on behalf of the British Isles, move it forward an hour please. People don't even finish dinner at that time!

The only ship in the line that isn't extremely strong.....It's just good. I don't like it to be honest. However, I have been treated by every other Russian BB so I EXPECTED it to also be extremely strong so disappointed .lol I personally think it's the worst of the lot, but it's still strong. What does that tell you about the line?

Anyway chaps....Good luck with your Russian ships and premium/steel/coal ones. and sorry for those clans that struggle with finding 8 players (with reserves) and having to settle with the peasant rentals.

This ^^^. And pushing more clans out is the way forward for WG then, fine. 1800 hrs?! Yeah great work WG, do you discriminate against people that work for a living or have a family? FFFAAARRR too early. and thanks for telling us now just before it start. And i'm trying to stay positive here!