Redcap375

So you are telling me that the Moskva, Des Mons, Monta and Henri doesn't have the ability to shot down IJN planes in their droves? Your kidding me right...."*doesn't even want to go flank usually*", well my friend that is a choice we all have to make. You might not like the choice but its a choice, like smoke or radar. So you are saying that having a CV in game isn't fun for a DD? Now you know what it feels like when as a CV player, you go up against nearly all ships with the defensive AA consumable in a clan and guess how many ships in tier 10 can have the defensive consumable? Do you know what that's like to play in? Its exactly the same thing and do you think that's fun? We just live with it an adapt, no complaints. Like you have stated, you also have another CV player (on your side). Its not the enemies fault if might be better than yours? Same as any line, some players are always going to be better. You are a good player and play with a good clan so respect and its not a personal assassination. Its just that alot of the views regarding CV's are *PERSONAL FEELINGS* towards a certain class (CV) and not based on facts. If i play DD's i don't want a CV in the game. If i'm a cruiser player i don't want BBs in the game and so on, round and round. People saying things like ships couldn't function on their own is ludicrous as i too have the Hindenburg and the Mino, both of which can easily deal with IJN planes. The Des Mon even more so! So do people think they will will have a problem when the new version of the Midway is released with TIER 8 planes? A bloody KIDD can annihilate tier 8 planes, never mind a Hindy, Des, Moskia, Mon, Henri or even a gearing. As you know, even a Gearing can have the Defensive aa now with an increased aa damage (per last patch). WG failed in that they left out a whole line of ships. They failed to make it work. Hell, they could have even had tier 8 CV's instead of tier 10 ones but they didn't. And why? To keep the masses happy and yes i'm talking about DD and BB players (of which i am one also). It has nothing to do with balance, its keeping the majority of players happy. Excluding the minority in any form is unacceptable. I take it your a DD player in Clan right? So i understand your concerns, but do you really think it breaks the balance? Or does it make your life easier? There is a massive difference. Look, I know i'm fighting a losing battle here as there are far more dedicated DD, CA and BB players but its about people not wanting CV's in Clan, not that it would break the balance. Evidence? Take a look at Ranked and tier 8 friendly Clan battles and now tell me that there is a balance problem? Nope, nothing to see here and not one person has complained about them. Suddenly there is competitive Clan battles and they are left out? Please, it stinks. Both Flamu and Femenennly are right: this entire line; Yeah you know what will really help the rapidly dwindling CV player base? EXCLUDING THEM FROM THE ONLY COMPETITIVE GAME MODE. Once again WG is catering to the absolute lowest [edited]denominator. We had the German BB line, then they followed it up with the RN BB line. Making the game simpler and simpler and dumber and dumber. Now they literally exclude a class from the "competitive" mode because it's "too hard" for the average glue-eater. Jesus [edited], yes I'm mad. Can you [edited]stop shitting on my favorite game WG? edit: This [edited]quote from that text. This [edited]quote. Confirmed, WG also sampling that tasty glue. And do we all remember what WG said on the matter: This reduced battle variability and the role of torpedo attacks, while the small number of high-tier carriers and the high skill ceiling to play them well left their potential role even more lopsided. Also, the battles are in a "contest" mode where all ships are fully researched and upgraded in an anti-aircraft configuration, so carriers are primarily expected to provide reconnaissance, before overloading and exhausting enemies. Chaps may i remind you that half of this isn't about ship balance at all, but player balance...I mean....Really! (without swearing) . If Flamu and Femenennly could see through this why cant other people? Respect.

Before anything: "We should be allowed to take any set up we want" What, like being able to bring a CV for CV captains? Excluding a whole line out of clan battles was simply wrong and still is. Let's be brutally honest here, there isn't a lot of really good CV players so excluding them saves those clans that 1) dont have great CV captain 2) don't even have tier 10 CVs. WG should make it work, period. Can you imagin the uproar if they left BBs or even DDs out of clan battles because they couldn't make it work? WG would get linch mobbed. You have even said it yourself about good CV players. if you don't have one? Tough. Like if clans don't have good DD players? Tough. Its not directed at you at all m8 and nearly all of what you have said I agree with . Well, maybe not more BBs as even one can turn a game round unless like you have said, they increase the team AND map size. Its just that 3/4 of all DD/BB players will ALWAYS be against CVs in clans, whatever the argument is. People don't think about the other people that would like to play their preferred line and are only out for themselves. Its not even about not being able to pick their preferred ship, but a whole bloody line!! CVs worked in both Rank and Tier 8 Clan battles but they wont in this? Please There would be a lot less Mosks and Mons camping behind a rock bow on for 3/4 of the game, alternating radar.

That's what littlewhitemouse said regarding the KIDD, its not a damage dealer.

Or should i just grind to my original goal....The Fletcher

Out of all the DD's, this one seems to really draw my attention 1) Survivability 2) AA armaments 3) Decent guns and 5 of them 4) Everyone says its a support ship, i like that. 5) Good DD killer (get in there and get out) The problem is that DD's are by far, my worst ship line. Mann being the highest tier so far with something like 50% win rate. Gallant is fun but i think i get through it due to inexperienced BB/CA tier 5-6 players that seem to move in perfect straight lines. I really enjoyed the Nicolas for some reason and highest win rate off all DDs (70%) but considering i Havant had many games in it, its not much to Bragg about Being an alright cruiser captain, could this be my first DD that i enjoy? Or do you think i really need to grind the US DD line more to learn how to use it? Or do you think i can "learn on the job"? Could this be the DD for me? Bloody expensive tho for a family man!

1) Kaga 2) Saipan 3) Any CV really If i want a game that i don't need to think too hard about and have a laugh then the Shinny never disappoints, it my go-to BB. Its a cruiser in BB's clothing! I can not and probably will never understand how to properly captain any DD to a except-able level expected from fellow forum/Clan members . From the moment the game starts, i truly have no idea what to do with them until the game ends, i have no "DD instincts".

Gotta have played 3/0/2 and needs a quite word with himself. This anti CV mentality is shocking and i'm personally appalled.

I can foresee that new Essex layout will be alot better chaps. That one set of fighters are handicapping it at the moment. Had a really good game yesterday in the Tahio against a good Essex CV player. I managed to keep his strike package at bay for half the game and strafed his whole strike in 2 go's with one group of fighters! I spotted his CV up with my bombers and he used his ONLY defensive fire. I then sent my torp planes in to finish the job when it cooled down. He/She said " not been taken out by a CV for a while, i said "I know how it feels" We lost in the end as our WHOLE team (7 ships) camped on the A cap and didn't move for the whole game. Didn't help that our 3 DD's died right at the start, even though i sunk one enemy DD my first wave! Plus when you have 2 Missi, 1 Iowa and a AA spec Yam as enemy BBs you know that AA is going to be a problem . Fair play to them, they moved round in small groups and couldn't do much to be honest. Having that extra set of fighters on the Essex would have changed the way I did things that game. I had a lot of space to run his fighters ragged and in the end, just got around them. With 2 sets of fighters those flimsy IJN Torps are going to see alot more fighter action than they are used too. Will be buying back the Essex this weekend me thinks.

Who wouldn't But do you think making them tier 9 would make them too strong? Honestly?

How you finding the 2 x Midway torps?

Chaps This isn't a black art or the unlocking of undiscovered secrets of how to play a cv but the basics: Start 1) You send your fighters out FIRST. 2) You SPOT for your team so they know where the enemy fleet roughly is or more importantly, where the nearest enemy DD is. 3) You outright sink or damage him that much that i will think twice before going near the cap 4) As he will be the first target your team will see, i can bet my mortgage that the whole team will be firing on him regardless of distance 4) Make him use his smoke out of the cap. If he does great, you can now snatch the cap away from him and when he does come out. The whole team will spot him for the seconded time (if he is somehow still alive) Middle 1) Find the isolated ships and hunt them down. High tier German BBs are great as they turn like the titanic and have crap Torp Armour. CV knowledge applies and is a must. 2) Keep an eye on the flank and sneaky ships trying to get around and light them up 3) Put your fighter planes either near important targets to defend or locations (like if you know he has AP bombs and there is only 1 Bis or Tirp on your team YOU KNOW what he is going to go for 4) Generally sink things End 1) Win the game time for tea and biscuits and say things like "GG" and "well played chap". Even thrown the occasional good report out. Even if you have to pull your fighters back then fine, you tried and there is no point getting them killed right at the start. Sometimes the enemy setup will force you to play abit more defensively but you gonna go for it and boss it, take it by the horns lads Yes there is alot more to it but IMHO that is the basics. The fact that not one of his planes are infront of the fleet trying to spot tells me that they are average/below. You don't leave your team blind...EVER. But spotting for the team and spotting for just one person is different and its the CVs decision if that course of action is right and has to weigh up the pros and cons. If a BB is steaming down the edge of the map on his own, will sending my fighters up 1) Give him victory and aid the team or 2) Get my planes killed for no gain and leave something else important vulnerable.

But as we all know m8 that is standard in this forum! People saying "do this and do that" without even knowing what its like to play the class. CV's are by far the least played line in the whole game (WG has made that very clear). The fleet expect everything..Spotting, air cover, damage ect and for some people this is just too much. Priories come easy to some and hard to others. Spotting a Fletcher compared to a Shimmy are two different kettle of fish. CV Captains have to make decisions on everything and most of the time, it has to be a quick one. Even down to the very first second of the game to which cap to spot up and which planes to use where! That continues to the end of the game and doesn't let up. You wanna triple what it feels like? Try Clan Battles which increases it x3 fold! You are Brain *&^*^%% after some of those games i can tell you. Do i spot the enemy DD for a player that is on his own or use it to make sure my strike gets through on the other side of the map? Do i keep their strike planes at bay or push out? Even down to do i strafe and maybe miss or just tigh them up and mess their accuracy up but kill less planes in the process? All these decisions that go through a CV captains head and am afrade to say, even the best players get it wrong sometimes. Only human. CV is Muti task madness, especially at tier 9-10 when you have 8 groups to manage at once. Blob them up isn't a always the right solution and independently managing each group is hard to do with aa at ranges of 7.4 and 8.2 Km invisible shooting your planes out of the sky within seconds. I've had plenty of games when i have spotted enemy DDs up nearly THE WHOLE GAME and my team didn't nothing with it, i just lost planes. But i did my job as our team knew where they were, its up to the team to do something with it. Other games that DD is literately dead within seconds. What i completely understand is that lot of CV players don't have a clue what to do. I have seen tier 9 CV players that don't even attempt to strafe even once in the whole game. Or man aim anything, including torp planes. I can tell from the first few minutes of the game when i'm not playing CV's how good our friendly CV player really is. Then i know what ships to stick with and how to approach things. "Our Friendly CV is crap, pair up for defensive AA lads" is one of my fav chat messages. The team needs to be warned for what could be their impending doom The worst is Saipan / Kaga players that have had a handful of tier 4 games in CV's then buy the ship not knowing what to do, or even how to play it.

I Second this Like i have already posted, bumped into a enemy GZ and owned him in this config, badly. Really should have scrn saved it to be honest, something i rarely do anyway. And that was respecting him from the start as i was against something new. It doesn't matter HOW many planes he has in the squad, its the AMOUNT of squads that counts in my books. 1 vs 2 fighter groups isn't rocket science to overcome. Playing against the (now the old) Essex taught me that. You can muti strafe from all kinds of directions, he cant. Players will feel rushed to do things with that death blob the GZ has, to he point that he just sent them chasing things down over AA frendly ships. Before he knew it he had 2-3 left. Cheers easy.

Got it and...Hating it at the moment. I know its stock but its guns don't give me much confidence at all. Prefer the Alabama so much more regrading..Well, everything. Its like someone has already said, its that ship you just have to get through (like the pens and Iziumo). Will give it more time when fully upgraded so lets see, but some ships don't feel right and this is one of them.

It sounds like i'm waving the flag for team Tahio but i'm not gents. I want ALL CVs to have a good chance against eachother and its time the Lex, Essex and the Midway had something going more in their favour. But I am also sad that they are bringing the 2 CVs lines closer together. I feel like they have lost there play style. Yes one will have AP bombers but is that enough? I personally would have went the other way and made it MORE extreme. Like another fighter for the Lex 3-0-2, another bomber for the Essex (1-1-4) and Fighter for the Midway. IJN CV's always had the numbers game on their side, that was the problem. 1) US AS wasn't good enough. How can you say your a AS when you have the same amount of fighters then the enemy??? Never understood that one 2) US Strike didn't have the amount of groups to do the job. Not against 2 mickey mouse IJN fighter groups who also have 2-2 to do damage with, with no worries about enemy fighters...No way. But we don't know what WG have for the RN CV's? They could really put things up in the air and hopefully make it interesting.

Oh it will be ALOT closer that its has been don't get me wrong. The thing is, the RNG is always a factor when playing any US CV given the amount of bombers it has and its reliance on them, the Essex will be no different.. Your only real concern is that one group of Torp bombers, so the Tahio captain can dedicate both of his fighters hunting it down or play defensive. 2 groups of US bombers hurt yes, but its not 3 any more which means less damage output in theory. Although having a extra fighter COULD increase that from past ones because of more strike planes being escorting by fighters +1 fighter -1 Bombers = More damage output? We shall see. There is alot more short range AA (See RN BBs) then long range so bombers feel the heat more than torp ones and always have. The Tahio only has 3 strike planes to worry about, 2 of them being less to worry about (Bombers). Remember if the US lines gets AP bombs, they are great (vs BB German) but also bad (Vs DD and CL). The Tahio player knows what ships your going to bomb (please see fighting against a Enterprise for more details. Lol) The Essex has 5 to worry about, with only 2 of them being less to worry about (Bombers) On Average, the Tahio could get 2 bombers and 1 torp bomber through the net if the Essex hunts down the other 2 torp groups. On Average, the Essex can only get 1 bomber through if the Tahio hunts down the 1 Torp and 1 Bomber. The defending CV ALWAYS has the advantage as he picks where and when to engage and over friendly AA. We are not talking about tier 5 AA here, but tier 9-10 AA when all ships have the ability to shot planes down. Tier 8 fighters more so. Tier 8 fighters will melt quicker in AA don't forget. You wanna tie up a set of faster Tahio fighters to get your the strike in? Then you better get that strafe bob on as being tied up over friendly AA in tier 8 fighters arnt gonna last long at all. The Kaga taught me that one (Kaga fighters are get defensive fighters). And you will have to stafe/tie them up if your going to escort them in. Its difficult to mob a strike group up with a fighter escort as the timing has to be near perfect. 1) Engage too early and your fighters die before your strike goes in and the counter strafe goes unhinded 2) Engage too late and your strike has already been strafed to 1/2 3/4 dead 3) Engage too close to your strike and the defensive fighters simpley strafe out and catch the strike. Lose a plane in process but taken 1/2 the strike down. And some people say that CVs are easy yeah, like 3/4 of the player base that have a hand full of games in them. I know its a lot of personal theory crafting here chaps and opinion and know that things never go by the book. But thats how i see it. The Midway on the other hand really looks interesting and i will be grinding the Essex again not only to try that out but the Midway too. 2 groups of 6 US torp bombers are just too good to miss with normal Man aim (unlike the Enterprise W)!

Increase a hell of a lot I'll say. Still can't believe the midway is getting 2 torp planes back. Wait until the HE shell damage has taken its toll then its going to get really nasty. Before that tho, tier 8 planes will be shredded on tier 10 games. The whole thing wants me to grind the Essex again if its got another set of fighters and the midway has 2 torp groups. Tier 8-10 was IJN CV territory. This will mix it up and bring it closer. I think 3 torp groups will still give the Tahio the edge regarding thr essex but I can see the Midway being deadly in the right hands.

So 3-4 smallish groups of multi tasking planes?

British Flavour as in Real Life if that is anything to go off (not too much in this game)? 1) Armoured decks 2) Small reserve 3) Fast The thing is, having an armoured deck wouldn't be on my top 10 things to look for in a CV. Out of sight, out of mind as the saying goes regarding CV. The things British CV's were good as are going to be difficult to portray in this game (Seaworthiness, very low fire chance, quick damage repair)....Wait there....Repair modul on a CV????? Yeah, like i wanna be tanking damage in a CV unless its last chance saloon time. I'm throwing this out there, but what do you guys think of a torp plane that can also be used as a fighter? Barracuda planes? Not a great fighter but can engange and strafe, if not very good at it?

Too true I was going to say that WG can not be this incompetent, but they have already proven this with the release of the GZ in that state. That was unforgivable, regardless of the apology (they made after everyone was up in arms about it). There must be some sort of a reason they are giving people these stupid GZ set ups, but i cant think for the life of me why??

Just finished a game with the mess that is the GZ! Those 9-10 fighters they have looks powerful don't they , well initially that is. To be brutality honest, I ran rings around him quite literary in the Shoka. He/she didn't know what to do with them as i simply split my 2 sets of fighters up which he was chasing like a dog looking for his tail. Each time they where getting chipped away by friendly AA. As i had 2 sets of fighters, he kept his 3 sets of bombers away half of the game. When he did send them in, I strafed the whole lot apart from 3 planes!!! true story. My conclusion was that he was 1) Was concentrating on his doom star fighter group on the other side of the map as my bombers were spotting up both of their DDs and 2) got fed up waiting. His CV got sunk halfway into the game as he was driving far to close to the front lines and got focused fired to death in seconds after being spotted by your truly (always funny how EVERYONE shoots at CV when it blips up) Now i don't think he was a great CV player but he didn't know how to strafe and the like. After the game (we won, 3 ships sunk including a DD that was trying to chase me, again) i thought what would i have done in the same position. Well, alot...... but have a plan for that death blob of fighters he had would be a start. Not running around chasing fighters. They scream "Strike escort" to me chaps. Ploughing the way whilst the cavalry comes in. If the strike gets cough by a group of fighters then it can cause chaos (like i did to him). But if you engage or strafe them first, you have a clear run to the target. Not a lot of CV players group their fighters up unless they know a full stirke is coming in in a blob. Oh that 3-5 seconded drop or whatever they have!! What is that about? How can you expect to hit a DD/CL with that drop? Giving the GK a massive group of fighters has done nothing. 2 sets of 4 fighters (5 with skill?) would be way better anyway of the week. I should not be looking forward to seeing the GZ in the load up screen knowing that its going to be a easy game. How are you going to get people to buy it? Thats' the price for paying the Full strike Lex . Although he should only have been able to target one set of planes at a time if you split them up? You didn't group your bombers up did you? wilth a death blob bearing down on them ??

Chap There are alot of points but here are a few IMHO. 1) First of all, Tier 7 is THE CV Premium tier. What i mean by that is that they are considered better then the silver counterpart. So playing a silver ship can put you on the back foot straight from the start, that's the first thing i would tell you to bear in mind. Even though tier 8 has 2 CV premium ships also, one is all over the place (GZ) and crap and the other one is good but not considered over that of a Shokaku, just different strengths (Enterprise). 2) Tier 7 can meet tier 5 ships. Tier 5 ships have generally poor AA and can be deal some serious blows by any tier 7 CV. Tier 8 CV's at the very least meet tier 6 ships that generally have alot better AA. Ships like the Cleveland with Defensive AA start to make an appearance. 3) The god awful MM at tier 8. This is true for all lines, but worse for CV's. Defensive AA ships are rife at tier 8, 9 and 10. Even DD's have it (add the Kidd now onto the list). You see quite a few tier 9 ships i'm sorry to say. I prefer playing either tier 7 or tier 9 CV games. 7 because of better MM and the Tahio (tier 9) because your not always bottom tier and 2-3-2 is just great. Like someone has already said, tier 8 is the 2nd stage learning tier, tier 6 being the first step (manuel drops). Getting used to more planes, more muti taking, taking your time and knowledge of what ship has what AA. To answer your question a nut shell T7 MM is alot better as it doesn't meet as much crazy heavy AA that tier 8 does and more often that not, your top/middle tier. Tier 8 is completely workable and fine but suffers alot more from being up-tiered. You know how to approach the game on the load up screen and more often than not your saying "how many AA ships!"

Sweet game Starcraft, anyway.... I came to the conclusion ages ago that you can never truly win the air superiority. Even if that one set of torp planes slip the net and sink that one important DD, it changes the game completely. All that focus and determination to stop the enemy CV get through amounts to nought. You need at least 3-4 sets of fighters to cover the map. 2 just doesn't cut it (unless Saipan), even if that one group is 20 plane strong US Death group it doesn't matter. IMHO Damage is very important as no point in spot things up if they are already dead If one set of Kaga torps slip the net it can cause hell and outright sink a ship. 2 sets of bombers (lex aside vs DDs) will struggle to kill anything outright 9/10. The Saipan is its nemesis as above all ....Speed. The fact that when a Kaga torp group comes into view, the Saipan player can get his fighters nearly all the way across the map to intercept them. Tier 9 vs Tier 6 speed says it all. Never mind the chaos it causes with the free strafing to any Kaga player that thinks grouping up planes is a good tactic against a Saipan. I play the Kaga fighters for 2 things: 1) Spotting 2) Defensive Its fighters will NEVER win a one vs one fight and should not be used to chase thing as they are too slow (IMHO). That was the first lesion i learnt (and knew before hand to be honest). So it needs help from friendly AA, whatever that aa might be but something. Then, its the strafing the hell out of whatever strike force the enemy CV has behind the fighters. They normally send a fighter plane in to tie the Kaga one up with his strike behind them. Then when the moment is right and they are happily flying along, Strafe the living hell out of them! Yes you lose a fighter in the process but they have just lost a whole group of torps or bit and bobs of the rest. Their attack is now blunted and job done, that with 1 group of tier 6 fighters, never mind 2. You then fly YOUR strike force in whereever you want and kill something (tier and defensive aa depending). If he's smart he has kept at least one set of fighters back to sniff the Kaga ones out. The only problem there is that you have 3 group of planes against his 1. Simple maths. That is what i have seen players do 7/10 times in WOWS. Grouping planes together behind only 1 group of fighters (Indi 1-1-1 or Lex 1-1-1 or Ranger 1-1-1). That simply isn't enough to just tie planes up, you have to get that devastating strafe first so the Kaga Fighters Havant go the numbers to do anything back. But how many CV captains now-a-days really know how to strafe? If i even kill 4 torp bombers per strike i consider that a small game victory with 1 set of Kaga fighters. The defending CV ALWAYS has the upper hand regarding fighters: 1) He has friendly AA 2) He decides where to engage 3) Easier to avoid strafes and can follow stafe up Yes there are ways to get round some of this issues i have raised as i'm sure you and most people in here do, but the majory simply don't. That's why we have to give them our honest advice to help them out and that's what this Thread has always been about. I'm not trying to Sell the Kaga by-the-way as the Saipan is IMHO better in the right hands (2-0-2). I would put the Hiryu 3rd with the Ranger last. The reason the Saipan isn;t higher on the WOWS Winrate is that alot of player don't use it to its full potential (and i seen alot of these CV captain). Strafing is everything in the Saipan and if you don't use that broken ability, try a different CV or continue learning. 80% win rate in Kaga and 78% in Saipan at the moment to put some substance to what i'm saying (hate hypocrites). Soz Negativvv if i went off on one mate

Chaps Well it finally happened, I ran out of torp planes in the Kaga....NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!! Well not just torp planes but ALL planes. Clan divs (2 friendly divs in enemy team) with one of the lads telling the enemy team just to stick together and don't do anything apart. Plus their 1-1-1 Ranger was quite good HAKKEND i think he was called and did a good job with his div (his div killed 5 ships in total in a NAG and BIS i think). Playing high tier CVs you forget how much tier 6 planes melt in tier 8 games. Didn't help that a friendly Tirp just sailed in a straight line into 5-6 torps from the enemy Ranger. Didn't even try to move (must have just brought the ship ) Down to 2 ships on eachside, Me (out of planes) and a Monarch with the enemy DD (Clan m8) and the enemy CV (with planes). Even tried to run into the Cap for some secondary action but alas, got sunk by the Ranger after it sunk the Monarch (he got alot of abuse from our team poor sod) . Very enjoyable game. Lost half of the planes spotting their DD's up for the team, only for them to just look at them and do nothing I took the loss personally as that is the first time i have lost against a Ranger in a Kaga. Lol.

That rear turret arc on the Normandie looks awful! Think i will keep the Dunk with the forward turrets thanks, not a massive fan of getting Broadsided