Redcap375

Precisely. And it sees shots like that everywhere as it got the range and accuracy to touch anyone one the map. It's in a world of it's own regarding Cruisers. Oh and I hate Yam players like you pulling those kinda shots. Lol

And what about the Grad taking that shot? Is their any other tier 10 cruiser capable of causing that much damage on that target in a single salvo?

And what cruiser would you use to take that same shot (if you changed your Yam to something else).

Anything to help keep the torps alive and the main guns working gets my vote. Unless the turret armour is cray strong (Yam) and/or doesn't have any torps in the first place. The Sharn guns don't have the best armour casing. PT for cruisers and DD's, sure. But a Battlecrusier with good HP, armour and speed to help it get out of dodge? IMHO the others are more useful as your not normally the first target people will aim at.

Yup, they would have. The Hindy and Henri would have suffered even worse. I know, being hit in a Des or Hindy with Yam shells hurt...Alot. But any ship in the game gets punished by those kinda shots and shells. Not just from the Yam but any Battleship really. So when people say that you can punish a Grad like this is talking tosh, all cruisers get smashed when broadsiding (although the Hindy is better at closer range, turtle). However, it has the HP and armour to deal with it better and actuality stay alive. If you had that shot again with any current tier 10 cruiser, which one would you choose to take that shot?

Personally i would get rid of PT and change it with EL. Then pick PM for your other 1 point. Not having your torps blown up when you need it the most is a massive help. Swapping AP to HE is even more vital with the BB AP change. However, the Sharn always hit a DD like a truck with it's low arming AP shells, don't know how much this has changed as not played it for a while. I do love your style regarding brawling . However, only max 8km range inst enough to convince me of a out and out secondary build on the Sharn (I have done it and it's fun, but not optimal). Plus it's secondaries don't pen things the Kurf and Gne can. So free up 4 points as their are other ones that are very appealing to this ship (SI, BS, FP). I am also surprised if your secondaries hit most things as you havnt added the Secondary mod and kept the main battery aiming mod (smart move).

How did you guess? I'm just another salty WOWS player looking at getting revenge on a bunch of pixels. Or just maybe i'm a caring chap that is concerned about the screwed up state of the game..Maybe? Could be? Leave that one up to you.

It's still extremely strong (like we all thought) don't get me wrong but it's a battleship and doesn't profess to be anything else. Why do we think the Alsare got a nerf? However, It's a Battleship that can't do zip with it's AP shells when your bow on in a tier 10 cruiser (minus the Mino). That's a massive weakness of any Battleship, even more so regarding tier 10 one's. No auto bounce like the Monty, over-match like the Republic or Yam or fire starting abilities of the Conq. Stima is so-so, it's got the lowest HP pool of all tier 10 Battleships by alot (which is bad for a Battleship) and gets murdered by Alsorts of HE from cruisers. Did i forget to mention that the Borg has only 2kish more HP than the Grad? 2k more than a bloody cruiser (apparently). Ho ho ho Only met one in clans so far and I obliterated it in a bloody Des (with a zao's help). That ship lives on the flanks IMHO with it's speed, number of shells and reload consumable. If it doesn't then it's kinda useless unless you spam HE which isn't ideal as cruisers can do it better. Still bloody high though and topping the charts . Send me a scene shot in 6 months time and see where we are then.

However, the longer fires it will take (not much tho), the even worse concealment it will have (concealment rework) and the introduction of the new CV's will bring the Grad down a peg. Wheres now the Grad can defend it's self from CV's (defensive AA and alright AA stats considering), in the rework any large camping ship is toast. CV's should appear in Clans now. That will mix all assorts of things up including the same old captain skills that people use. People will have to choice what captain skills to have (AA vs Tanky)

But like you have said, its not AS OP as people think. Every ship stats drops when more and more people play them, completely natural as you know. However, just look at the Flint, Kaga and Belfast to name a few. They are still topping their respective charts and so will the Grad in 6 months time. I mean every man and his dog has the Belfast and it's still flying high. Extremely strong/OP ships tend to do that. It's a old argument used which doesn't carry that much weight to be honest my friend. Didn't in WOT and doesn't in WOWS. I'm currently 4000 off that at the moment, but promised myself that i didn't wanna be another clubber so saving up for the tier 10 Frency instead. Alot more balanced IMHO and i enjoyed the Alsare. Plus I was referring to ALL Battlecurisers, not just the Grad (enough threads on that already ). Have already said my peace with that. I think they should receive longer fire duration, they are after all bigger than even a heavy cruiser. You/we want bigger guns with more HP and all the bells and whistles, well then it's gonna come at a price. That's the true balancing method IMHO. Not to give them weakness that other cruisers have anyway. P.S @quickr I know it's only early days for you (7 battles) but it's already getting a whooping 40k more average damage over your Moskva. That trend will continue, just like the server stats.

Now have a Zao, Des, Moskva, Hindy ect in the same place as that ship in that picture.....It would be out right dead! Hummm. The fact that the Grad is still sailing speaks in volumes. Plus how many Grads do you see in Open water that like plum unless he had no choice? Precisely. I welcome the new 60's. We can't keep Battlecrusiers cherry picking what they want like they do now. They can't have the callaber and HP of Battleships and the versatility of a cruiser. It's too much at the moment. Kron, Stalin, Alaska and Azuma all fit that bill. Having a longer fire duration makes total sense if you ask me . This is from someone who is looking forward to the Alaska. Fair play WG, this is a good change IMHO.

Precisely. The Zao is a balanced ship. The Henry is a balanced ship. All the other Siverline ships are balanced ships. This isn't. And for the record @Commander_Cornflakes, you are saying that all of the streamers like Flamu, LWM, ICHASE, Panzcracker ect... Are all wrong. Just so I can have that in writing, hope you don't mind.

So none then or maybe one kinda is. That's all I need to know thanks regarding where you stand.

Wow, talk about those that sit in Ivory Towers. Then i guess all streams are wrong then, some of which couldn't agree on the colour of an orange. Ok then, answer me this. Do you think there is currently any ships in the game that you would say is OP?

Because you accused me of not knowing what a OP ship? Remember that? It's silly really but you went for it. Yeah, that's why even your own Kaga has both a better WR and much better damage than the Hiryu. But yeah, the Hiryu is better we will stick with that shall we. Seriously, what does it take for players to say something is OP now-a-days. Have we all become desensitised by games with so many OP/PW2 ships/things in them it's like second nature. I mean people were defending the IS3 in Warthunder for so long too, even though that was as broken as they come (like all Russian tanks in that game). Even when the game designers later admitted it themselves! Or the Defender in WOT. Yeah they still defended them because "It's my toy and screw the game"" Nothing changes. It's OP (I, well known streamers, stats and the majority of the player base know so), It has no place in Clans for a multitude of reasons and it's yet another bad apple for the game i'm trying to like again. The CV rework is going to be epic and not in a good way. When we even have players that have it and still say it's too strong (like some of the above and clan mates) then come on, it goes beyond a joke for those defending it.

Belfast, Kaga, Saipan, Juilo to name a few . You know, the ones both you and I have and cake over other silver lines with. Don't be under any illusions that one of the reasons why is that the ship's are OP in the first place. Strong is a understatement, but we are making headway. Will be worse mate. Putting my feet up with that one

18th this week Nothing wrong it tho

That's called BS. Your Balancegrad is doing 20,000 average damage more then your Henri and kicking the living hell out of your Moskva. Their is a reason for this and you know why. A OP ship is still a OP ship regardless. Hiding/masking it as a change of meta is simply concealing the main problem. It's extremely strong for a cruiser in the first place and a Battlecrusier has no place in Clans where cruisers are in the majorly. Riddle me this: How many Grads do OM currently use in Clan. Nuff said. There is a bloody good reason why most teams have swapped this for their Moskva and they are very strong to begin with. You see 2 at least in Typhoon. Moskva has lower HP, lower fire chance, lower callaber guns, no auto bounce and AP that shatters half the time. Not to mention a huge difference in reload. A DD that gets hit by a Grad know it's been hit. Relying on RNG to start a fire is a awful. Yes it can be done, like any bloody cruiser, but not without concentrated fire from 2+ more ships as it's Battleship tanky. That is not right for a cruiser. Henri's are still only cruisers with cruiser armour, cruiser guns cruiser and HP. They still get annihilated by Des, Hindy, Zao. Having the worse concealment of any flanking ship does go against it, alot. The BalancedGrad doesn't have to worry about that as they simply plant and provide fire form across the Map. The Henry is also accessible to most, even on the loan system. That's "fair". You are not gonna win anything in here mate, really. The only time you see top Clans respond in their droves is when the BalanceGrad is mentioned. I wonder why. Even our own Clan mates that play them call them OP. Flamu, IChase, LWM and everyone else says the same and so does the stats. Only the elites say otherwise. So @fat_rooster, clans like yours and ours know the score but things wont change (Money). You wanna know the sad thing? We currently have one in the team and on Saturday placing one more in the team. So it's working like WG has intended it too. But it's wrong in all respects and creates yet another gap between casual clans and elite ones.

Well i currently have all CV's but the US ones are more constant like you said. Love the HVAR. I'm suggesting US ones at the moment to my clan mates who wanna give it a go.

So would you suggest the US line or the IJN line at the moment for the new chaps. US gets my vote at the moment.

But of course that wouldn't compute with most players. I tell you want the new rework currently does change for the best. Campers. farra Video was comical. See how it just zipped past everything, AA or not. I was laughing with him.

Precisely. Where in the past those planes would simply evaporate when that magical button was pressed well within their AA range. It's the same story with the Des. Better the devil you know springs to mind. The constant moaning about CV's and their players was a major factor. So this is what you have now. By CV enthusiasts you mean people that actually play CV's in the first place? Come on.... You have had 9,997 games and only 39 games in CV's Your DD side is talking here, please at least admit that. DD players HATE CV's and always have. It's their direct counter and they hate it (even my own clan mates when i play them ) Just like CV players hate anything with very good AA like MOST ships have (Bar the majority of DD's). Well, i'm saying that from a person who has had 1888 games in a BB, 1759 games in a CA, 315 games in a DD and 1264 games in a CV i can clearly state that i have never had a problem with CV's, ever. In which ever ship i sail, i don't have a problem with them and the times i have been outright sunk by one is so much in the minority i cant remember the last time i actually was. When i play cruisers i never have a problem with them (defensive AA tends to do that). When i play BB's then i either expect that CV's will be a porblem or i don't care as my BB is more than capable of down enough planes to make him think again or outright kill them. When i play DD's then i come to piece that CV's are going to be a massive problem but do i moan? Nope, i just adapt. I don't even think about them when i play them in Spec AA DD's (like the KIDSS ..ect). Chaps like @El2aZeR , who has had even more games in ALL ships than i have, are telling you chaps the same thing. Please again, see my planes kills in all ships. It's staggering for some. I only wish it showed how many times i have been sunk by a CV in total. it would be minuscule. You see when you actually play a CV game you know how a CV player thinks (the good ones anyway). You know what his main targets are and how to WASD probably. Trouble is many, many and i mean many people don't take any of it in and do the same things over and over. With a CV in the game or not, they refuse to do anything different or learn from their mistakes. they dont even Spec and cry bloody muder when they get sunk by one. I dont have any time for those that moan in this way. Masush player a few days ago " So F***** OP CV, shouldn't be allowed in the game"....I mean he sailing a CV magnet with piterful AA and hes STILL calling CV's OP? That moment will stick with him and CV players have gained another hater and "remove them from the game ect..". Regardless if his torp belt is something other ships can dream off. Joke isn't it really. He wont see any reason and only whats in-front of his face. Of all my drops i have done in a CV, i would say that only 25% have acted correctly. That includes WASD in the right direction and speed, Defensive AA popping too soon and use of damage control. In fact, even less i would say. THE ABOVE IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. But it's illustrates the currently skill of players in this game. When your on tonight lads: 1) How many games you actually have a CV in it 2) How good he/she actually was 3) How many ships he killed and how much damage done 4) Did you win the game and where did he come in the end table. 5) Was his CV stats Op compered to the rest of his ships. You add them all together and ask yourself was there ever a problem with CV's? Not since Beta. Alas, it's all in the past now and that is where it should remain. But I and all those other players that play CV's will never except that CV's were destructive for the game. Haters and people who refused to learn (Skill gap) were. that will just increase the skill gap one of the reasons WG have harped on about regarding the change from the very start of this. It's like a circus now isn't it. I wish I had something positive to say. Well, it's got nice graphics?

People are gonna miss having a decent CV player protect your fleet by strafing and killed his planes before they could even drop? Yeah, not anymore. Your gonna miss that. Looking at you Mashi players your gonna wish you spend the coal on another ship.

Up to tier 6 they can't even Manuel drop. That's the first easy street for any surface ship. Easy street. Lower CV's don't have the plane reserves like the higher ones do, by a big margin. Even one plane lost to defensive AA counts. And only the IJN ones can anvil drop with torp bombers. That is a 50% chance to meet one. IJN planes are weaker and more sustainable to Defensive AA. Now take tier 6 MM into account? Meeting ships like the Atlanta, Flint, DOT, HOOD, Gne ect.... Balance on all tiers, not just mid tiers mate. and i hope you do find it fun, i really do mate. It looked fun to me...Great graphics, flack blowing up all around me, torps fizzing in the water, bits of plane falling off......but then it hit me. I've played this game before (Battlestations MIDWAY) . And that got old really really quick. Graphics are no substitute for game play. Those kinda games get boring. You now fly around with one squad doing the same thing over and over and over gain. You pick the target and sink it. Planes on tap. No muti tasking, no controlling your CV manually, no worrying about the other CV players skill, no defending your team, no spotting and helping DD's just pure farming damage. I am in no way bitter about the re-work now. That phase has gone (everyone who got good at the old CV's had a bit of this, it's natural). I want what's good for the game and this rework along with PW2 and steel (BalancedGrad) isn't good for the game. The amount of salt i have received from mainly DD players over the past years will be nothing compared to what they are going to throw at me now. I am just gonna sit back, put my feet up and . players asked for this.

Chaps. Any tips, tricks, differences of CV's or simple knowledge you wanna pass onto other new re-work CV players, please feel free to share in this thread. Many of you have done a fantastic job with the old RTS system so please keep this up. People will be looking in this thread for help more-than-ever so lets keep it clean and informative as we always have. It is what it is and many of you will probably only play CV's from time to time, if not sell them all completely, but it all helps.