eliastion

It was already mentioned in this thread - Dunkerque can't train any captains. So it's just a t6 ship you can play for its own sake and it's probably going to stay that way for some time. If you want a good reason for it not being more expensive - this one sounds pretty rational to me.

AP is an option against DDs at close ranges when they show broadside to bring all their guns to bear, but... - against USN DDs your main advantage is that your guns have better performance over distance - against Kiev you don't fire at all (you want to spot them so someone else hills them for you) - against Błyskawica and Leningrad, if you can't outspot them (as with kiev) your only chance is to kite them, forcing them to remain bow-on towards you or risk falling out of your spotting distance (you have great camo when not firing!) Basically, you shouldn't really find yourself in many situations where AP would be a viable option because your targets are likely to be angled or too far - and more often than not reliability of HE will trump higher possible alpha on AP. I think I used AP maybe three times in Ranked on Shiratsuyu so far? I might not be the best example to follow (my performance is hardly stellar ;) ) but I just don't really feel the need of switching to AP and it's not like I don't appreciate AP - my favourite DD in Randoms right now is Akizuki that fires AP on EVERYTHING

It's a known problem. Ranger is rubbish compared to competition - and that just shows in Ranked. What you need in Ranked is 1. Damage 2. Spotting 3. Team protection Unless the enemy CV f*cks up royally, you just CAN'T make up for the other two with just one of them - and Ranger basically sacrifices damage to protect team and spot a little or it gives up team protection and most of spotting potential to deal damage (that it can't even really do since ships keep together much better, AA on this tier is decent AND enemy CV has less ships to protect). Result? Saipan win% in this season off Ranked so far: 55,0% Hiryu win%: 52,78% Ranger win%: 43,08% Ranger is - by far - the worst performing ship in Ranked. Second worst, Yorck, has 47,11% So yeah, OP, it's not just your impression. The stats clearly support your feelings: assuming equal skill of both CV players, Ranger is a burden for his team, not an asset. And seeing how small teams and importance of spotting in Ranked make carriers so influential... the burden is heavy. Of course, skill in CVs still trumps ship strengths so really good Ranger players probably still can get good results, especailly when meeting CV potatoes. But the ship doesn't really help them in doind that.

Even without selling - it's ok that the Premium Time packages run out when you don't play, be it a day or a week, that's what you get: X time when your account is premium. But the moment when to start your package, whether it was bought or earned through missions of some sort, should be up to player. In fact, I had moments when I actually hesitated to play, because... well, latest example: Rankeds. I was starting the season at some Rank already. And among these Ranks already behind me, I had "premium time" reward. Meaning: if I want to play but have time only for 2-3 games that night, I should refrain from Ranked because this triggers the premium time that's then going to mostly go to waste then. Such situations are frustrating and discourage playing. On the other hand, the option to accumulate reward 24-hour premium packages would actually trigger the hoarder in many people. I for myself know that in Armored Warfare I ended up with a couple weeks worth of unspent Premium So I wasn't exactly using it but damn, did it feel good to just HAVE it in storage, just in case

Ok, sorry, but that's BS. I wasn't fond of waxx25 bringing up your stats but your attitude changed my opinion. No, it's not "people acting like you posted".Are you really too blind to understand that being consistently bad suggests a problem on your side of the screen?... Yes, there are bad teams and team's performance does influence yours. But only to a limited extent. And we're not even talking a DD dying due to lack of support in cap (although it usually means he misplayed too) - we're talking a ship that can hide in own smoke, Radar up and add a hydro for nice early torp warning. Belfast might be the least team-dependent ship in current Ranked meta while also being a tremendous help to the team, even bad team, if played well...

DDs are squishy. They melt under focused fire but they can and will escape given the chance. In three out of every four cases a BB with reloaded guns SHOULD fire at any spotted DD at below 10km range. Yes, the salvo will probably deal a measly couple thousands damage but even 2 usually means over 10% of enemy DDs full hp (4k on squishies can be as much as 1/4 of total hp!), not to mention that the more shells fly at the DD the harder time the player has avoiding everything. Your salvo might not do much in terms of damage but can possibly make the enemy an easier target for other ships... Also, no, of course you're not firing at DDs instead of your cruisers. You're firing at them TOGETHER WITH your cruisers. To take the bugger out as quick as possible.

You don't get it to the extent that's mind-boggling. And it's not even about the fact that your anecdotal evidence is in absolutely no way superior to anecdotal evidence coming from "a few serial moaners" (btw, feel free to vote here, don't let the few moaners create false impression that community is not happy with new upgrades and/or how they're handled http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/74205-your-opinion-on-the-new-upgrades-as-well-as-current-ways-of-obtaining-them/ ). The actual problems lies elsewhere than you claim we see it. I, for one, don't even think the chance for real (non-upgrade) SC drops really dropped (especially in a significant way). The same patch that introduced upgrades increased (by half) the chance of getting an SC in the first place. I don't think new upgrades make up for more than 1/3 of total drops (my bet would be that they constitute exactly 1/3), so we didn't lose the chance for something else (apart from eliminated signals). If WG instead just included a second type of special container with 1/2 chance of drop of SC, some "upgrade container", people might even be glad because the upgrades are, at worst, a 600k credit containers - that's actually a pretty nice drop for a normal container and many people seem to be low on credits. The problem is - 600k credits is just not a SUPERcontainer. It doesn't compare with SC rewards, even these less impressive. And people who actually received the SC, open it and see that, nope, it's not a real supercontainer, just a cheap substitute with something completely useless that doesn't even have a great sale value... It's just extremely disappointing, especially for people who pick TYL containers, actively trying and making sacrifice to hit SC more often. And then the SC they thought they finally got (usually after a month or so) is pretty much taken away from them. THAT is the problem. A huge f*ck up in game design where the player hears "you got an awesome prize!" and the next moment learns that the awesome prize is anything but.

They are a different kind of people, though... They believed new skills to be a heavy BB nerf, from what I heard...

I wonder what's the feedback about these upgrades in RU community... anyone knowledgeable about that?

I think the upgrades are the most common type of reward now. Although it's hard to tell since the people who get some actual loot rather than this crap are less likely to comment on Forums... Either way, feel free to vote and comment if you didn't already ;) http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/74205-whats-your-opinion-of-the-new-upgrades-as-well-as-current-ways-of-obtaining-them/ Not that I expect actual WG employees to read this not to mention passing it to people who decide such things (supercontainer loot is probably a global, not EU thing)...

Well, that's a non-argument, really. Would it be a fun game if all ships in the game got things like - Radar - Smoke - Torps - 400 mm guns - BB-grade turtleback armor - 3,0 s reload on main battery - 40kn speed (pick any or take all of these and throw in a couple more) Ships have their particular advantages, specific to these particular ships. Some tools that not every other ship shares with them For some ships these advantages/tools include ability to stealthfire, opening tactical possibilities that not every ship enjoy. The "would it be fun if all of them/all of these classes could do that" question is simply not an argument in the discussion of whether or not Smoke, Radar, Torps, big guns, german BB armor, machinegun reloads or some RU DD speeds are ok. The same is true for stealthfire - it doesn't matter if it would be fun to see every ship (or every DD and CA) in game capable of doing that...

Akizuki: 19 +1 = 20 Funfunfun. This thing just spews out so much AP, especially if there's a DD to melt that doesn't try to angle (and it usually doesn't, especially if you have some support that your prey tries to dodge, exposing broadside in the process) Kagero: 13 -3 = 10 poor guns, concealment is nothing special and neither are torps, really, with just 2 launchers... Now, if it had a torpedo reload in a separate slot... but it doesn't. Benson: 26 Lo Yang (Mk. 15 mod. 0): 21 Lo Yang (Mk 31): 17 Z-23: 14 Mogami (155mm): 15 Atago: 29 New Orleans: 11 Chapayev: 21 Mikhail Kutuzov: 25 Admiral Hipper / Prinz Eugen: 14 Edinburgh: 21 Amagi: 22 North Carolina: 23 Tirpitz: 22 Bismark: 21 Shokaku (2/2/2): 23 Shokaku (3/1/2): 20 Lexington (0/1/3): 8

I agree that the most demanding ship - or rather class - would be CVs, reason for that being not so much extremely difficult gameplay itself (especially in Randoms where it's relatively easy to find viable targets) but the extreme level to which carriers are countered by other carriers. In other classes when you get outplayed by your direct opponent you can usually do something still. A CV opponent that's just better than you is a much, MUCH bigger challenge. The extreme difference you get when playing better vs playing worse than one particular player on the enemy team hangs the bar much higher than in other classes (although games when you play against a total potato are appropriately easier - AA can be a b*tch but in Randoms that has a somewhat limited effect because almost always there are some idiots sailing alone (and often ignoring your planes until the moment torps hit the water). Another big group of demanding ships would be no-smoke cruisers. Smoke cruisers can't afford mistakes but, well, they do have that standard approach (smoke up, shoot from smoke), other cruisers don't have such benefits. Although I have a general feeling that Priority Target was a GREAT addition to the game for them. Basically, you no longer need to control where every single enemy BBs guns are facing - which was possibly the most frustrating part of cruiser play, along with lolpens through bow/stern.

Whoa, more than 100 poll votes... if only WG were reading this stuff

Server just shut down in the middle of (winning, of course -_- ) Ranked battle...

As much as I don't like these consumables (especially Radar on certain ships that either aren't cruisers or have smoke and hydro on top of Radar) I'd be against that. Too random, really, the game has a really big random factor as it is...

I dread this situation - being forced to grind that disaster that Udaloi is (well, at least for me - I literally feel like it's worse than Trashcan) starting back from 0 (if I want that other branch t10 rather than Khaba). But that's the most likely outcome...

Well, since I don't lack credits, I personally would actually prever a nice selection of 12 flags (best that can fall out of the now-nerfed Signal container) to the new upgrades... But I might be a pretty extreme case.

Let me make you feel better - this isn't super useless because you don't play t8+. It's super useless period. No, seriously, since the upgrades get into slots that normally contain other things, there's literally one that might be of use: engine acceleration boost. The others just compete with much more important "standard" upgrades, making them pretty much complete junk. Although that might not even be bad since we really don't need longer duration planes, Radars, defensive AA or BB fire invulnerability... these things last more than long enough as it is - knowing when to use them is a matter of skill, the more they last the less skill matters and the less options to outplay them.

It doesn't prove or disprove his arguments but it does impact credibility of his opinion, especially since discussions like these rely in no small part on personal experience-derived feeling for how balance works/should work. Would an opinion about balance coming from, say, Flamu be no more valuable to you as one coming from someone with grand total of 50 games? I don't think so. Someone playing exclusively one class of ship is similar here - he just doesn't have the knowledge/experience to have an educated opinion on cross-class balance. Even if he were right about something it would be mostly a coincidence. But there's really little coincidence with the fact that he complains about features that benefit other classes and hurt his favourite. It's perfectly valid to point out that someone's opinion is based on very one-sided perspective. It doesn't automatically make the opinion wrong, of course - but you mix up the order of things here. It's not that people check stats and decide that "he's bad so he's wrong", it's the other way around: the opinion just seems so wrong that people go to check up on stats. Because they want to know how such a wrong opinion came to be. And - more often than not - the owner of the opinion proves to be a one-class or simply a terrible (one with no clue how to play any class) player. Sometimes (very rarely) the controversial opinion proves to come form someone with diverse experience and decent stats. Now that situation can actually make people think a bit more about the opinion on the ground that "the guy seems to know what he's talking about so maybe what he says isn't as stupid as it sounds". But it doesn't work the other way - if what someone says makes sense, nobody bothers to check stats, really, why would they? They just nod and move on.

Ja skomentuję tak - na anglojęzycznym forum pozwoliłem sobie zrobić ankietę pytając ludzi o odczucia w związku z nowymi ulepszeniami oraz ich rolą jako nagród w Bitwach Rankingowych oraz Superkontenerach. I nie jestem pewien, kto był (według patchnotsów ktoś był) zadowolony z nowych ulepszeń, ale mam wrażenie, że nie usłyszał, że będzie je dostawał zamiast prawdziwych nagród/łupów... http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/74205-whats-your-opinion-of-the-new-upgrades-as-well-as-current-ways-of-obtaining-them/ Jak pisze Vanhal - w większości to złom, w porównaniu ze standardowymi modułami pakowanymi do slotów, do których pasują (a ten "poprawiający" dymek tak naprawdę na większości statków go pogarsza, jeden Perth naprawdę z niego korzysta na +). Jest dosłownie jeden wyjątek o którym wiem: moduł poprawiający dopalacze. Ten faktycznie jest wartą rozważenia alternatywą dla tego, co normalnie niszczyciele tam wstawiają. Czyli - jeden potencjalnie użyteczny moduł i góra złomu przez który ludzie czują się, jakby ktoś im "ukradł" ich superkontener... bo 650 tysięcy kredytów to tak jakoś mało super jednak...

I already mentioned this issue but, well, I've taken liberty to make a poll (in more attended part of the forum). This poll seems to be giving so far a pretty clear picture of how the community sees the new upgrades as well as their introduction to Ranked and Supercontainers... http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/74205-whats-your-opinion-of-the-new-upgrades-as-well-as-current-ways-of-obtaining-them/ I'm not sure who was happy with the new upgrades but... they probably weren't told that these will replace useful loot in Supercontainers.

Encounters with inanimate obstacles don't cause damage in this game. You don't die to islands, for example. Yes, a destroyes ship would "realistically" still be traveling for a bit (it takes some real effort to actually stop these things on purpose, using their engines!) but the idea that they should still be a ramming threat is a bad one. Killed ships are no longer enemies. They're part of the scenery. Impact with them is - and should remain - no more meaningful as impact with islands.

Neither can you hide in smoke or - most crucially - use smoke to escape in a DD. And don't get me started on what happens to a cruiser in a situation where you are surrounded in a way that doesn't allow you to angle.

It's HUGE tanking ability - what kills a DD or a cruiser in 1-2 salvos takes much, MUCH longer to take out a BB. And after all this a BB can heal up much of hp lost. A cruiser caught off position is just dead. A DD usually too (although the option to disappear SOMETIMES is there). If (in case of cruiser: miraculously) any of the two manage to retreat to safety, they're crippled for the rest of the battle while BB can heal up and return almost as big of a threat as before. BBs are INCOMPARABLY more forgiving than the other classes.