ThinderChief

I'd like to say a word. Last message (to which you know i CANT reply) was asking why i didn't join the clan on this T.S substitute after giving me a link that didn't lead to any of you, i couldn't find PLAG. Second after installing the test server game i couldn't SEE [PLAG], whetheir i was already chuncked out or not i dont know but i accepted an invitation to join another clan, so if asked i didn't leave.

That's what i'm talking about. Unbalance in strength, either ships, either radars/sonars or all of them and it happens more often than not. I have a large number of screenshots showing just that, in one game it was 5 vs 2 (for the other team) not to mention the potential radar on their Pan-Asia DD. As a thumb rule it makes capping impossible and if you're not with a team who get the overall picture you're done, they're never going to give you the support you need, the only game i won today with the Shima, i spotted the Chapayev and was congratulated by my team mates, not that it makes me a hero but i kept him spotted for them, they failed to kill him, i managed to do so with some torps, while our Des Moines got the top score and more to the point was doing a great job at forbidding enemy DD to come anywhere close to the cap. I do consider them unfair as it takes little skills to destroy a DD with one of those, if a DD player could shut the radar with as much ease as their players can turn them on you'll understand. DD relies on stealth, there is no substitute to it, no HP pool, not fire power, so considering what you have to do to kill a Missouri with a Shima or a gunboat, yes i think it is unfair one can buy them and get the extra XP and credit at your expense. I use those tactics btw to try to counter them but as said previously, it's a team effort, so i dont know how much this change in the Shima will help, we will see. Look who is talking. Excuse me but i don't like your tone and your attitude. Pack your flame bates and get off my back. Am I? Because you figured you can torp a Chapayef with its radar ON using F3 torps and not get slaughtered, i taught Billy Connolly was the funniest guy i possibly come across up to today.

LOL! The gossips makes me laugh all the time. I DONT do clubbing, i train my commanders with the premium ships i have, i won the Kamikaze R and i use it this way, i also purchased a Yubari for this purpose, that's for one. Second i don't like playing radars, i'm far better with other types of Cruisers, because parking my butt behind an ireland is not my favourite play style that's for two, and yes i consider them as unfair, i used to play Z-23 but got fade up clubbing, precisely, just because it have a sonar that leave other DD no chances, same as radars only shorter range. What makes no sense to me is that most of the time when i get killed contesting a cap, my team seems unable to kill the other DD, my level of skills have got little to do with that, and NO it's not that easy, bragging is easy, hitting a well played Khaba is not, it's faster than most players expect them to be and changes direction very quickly as well. So if your turret traverse speed is low and your shells slow you're going to struggle anyway. If i play a cruiser and want to support my DDs, i'll use my Zao, it's equipped with a sonar but at least it's not a maneuvrable DD equipped with smoke, so from my PoV it's a fair trade for other DD players. As expected all you contribute is flame bating and B.S. Do you know where you can stick your opinion? I guess you do.

I didn't have time to read about the next update, it might be good news for Shima players. I use Type93 with torpedo acceleration skills (16 km, 67 kt) to counter radar ships it leaves me with a larger buffer than the F3, i tried them i find myself hoping i had more range. I wasn't doing to bad with 20km torp range either and no it's NOT (as some would love to say) a question of firing and hoping to hit something, good BB players change direction too often for even the fastest torp to score consistently, if i chose this combination it is solely because when there are radars in the game, i'd rather not try to cap before i know where they are. If there is only one at the opposite side of the map i'll cap although the Shima is not the best at contesting caps, especially if your team is not ready to provide you enough fire support to win it vs a gunboat. That's a team effort isn't it? I know it but so if you did read my introduction to this topic you'll figure i mention the fact that too many players doesn't. I have a lot less issues winning when there are no radars is the game, even less when they are on my team. go figure this one.

Oh? So you don't disagree don't you? LOL. The usual mediocre patronising tone doesn't work, fact being, i bring up real issues, you bring up flame bates and name calling because you don't like it, that's another topic. Please vaccate. Just did. Poor Chapayev, and guess what, we won, not because we were that better, but because they had only one and our Des Moines ended up to scorer for both teams, what a surprise... I never said a BAD ship, i said the weakest for its tier.

Right LOL. As expected the usual reality denial thing. We've seen it before. I can remember having a positive win rate with some IJN DDs before people figured a radar will actually help boost their win rates, "and is quiet good with them" was the stats page comment. I don't need to know how "stats works" those are good enough for everyone to see. That's correct. I sold ALL my radar ships and i'm happy with that, at least my stats reflects my level of skills not that of my ship, it's even the opposite. If you're "unfortunate"enough to play with me and are unable to hit a Khaba when we need fire support perhaps you'll understand what i mean by O.P.

Who's crying for buff? This hardly qualifies for crying for buff, since i mentioned the fact that Shimakaze was manageable even with O.P ships until the plethora of greedy players splashed dosh on Missouri to brush up their win rates, and W.G figured more radar ships were needed in the game, think i didn't notice their increased number of from tVIII to tX perhaps? What would be VERY interesting to see is WHO kills WHAT with WHICH ship, i'm sure we'll have some surprises. My solution would be to limit the number of radar-equiped ships to 2 per team and per game, they would already cover most caps on most maps. Now, result of last game, the ONLY ship this Missouri managed to kill was my Shima, if you need a premium BB to do that...

Is it? We will see by how much and if it enough to make it competitive in this context. Will it actually solve the issue of the number of radars in a game? I think not. I know that some players love to delete DDs using a BB (wonder why they need BB to do that in the first place, but eh, Missouri brings up a lot of credit doesn't it? ), so basically they get their credit and XP at the expense of other players, that's what this topic is all about, O.P Ships, unbalance between types (about to be solved for one say you) and the number of radar ships in a game. Last one i managed to stick 1 torp in the enemy Missouri, not enough apparently, as i said, he got the credit and XP, i got screwed, reminds me of a game where i played my Montana wnd wasn';t shot at by another BB until i p"ssed one off with a citadel on his Yamato from max range, says a lot about how people actually farm instead of playing teams... Fade up with this cowardly play style. Yeah sure, another genius. Problem doesn't exist, all those i played with were unable to "deal with it". "Other people are doing fine" NO they're NOT, otherwise Shima wouldn't be lowest of its tier in terms of win rate and Moskva/Des Moines top. I sold all my radar ships and i prefer not to give up to the general B.S-ing. Thanks for the lecture, no thanks.

Blah... The usual mediocre flame baters, i see it never changed. Reality denial doesn't make you right. I base my comments on real statistics, meaning all those Shimakaze and even Gearing players which compose the stats showing below 50% win rates aren't that bad, only their ships are 1) not as strong as the top 3/4, 2) it get even worse when you play a low HP torp boat and have to face one of the top gun boats because your concealment is gone at the touch of a key. NO skills involved there.

I just (re) tested the Z-23 in TS ands i can't believe this ship, she has everything i like in a DD, good speed, good concealment, good torps and those 150mm guns, man, they kick butts! She is slightly more biased guns than torps as opposed to the Akatsuki which is my favourite DD so far but you have a good buffer zone with detectability range and torpedo range, enough to leave little chance to a tX BB to avoid them, luckily for them her smoke duration is not that good but eh, you can't have it all and i'm not a smoke lover anyway, i already killed a Yamato and a Montana with her. So if you are playing the Z-23, don't hesitate to share your experience...

Well W.G, here you managed to demonstrate again how high a quality of 3D work your teams are capable of, it's a great looking ship, i don't think you will delete your Maya files for her just to make sure you wont be tempted.... I know many players can start jumping up and down of the idea of subs playing in W'G, but we have CVs and they can be a complete pain in the back when they are there, only one look at their kill ratio will confirm that, but how about let us play subs such as this loverly Type SH against bots? This way you would be able to develop and fine tune a new aspect of this game, even if you decide not to introduce subs in other rooms. It wouldn't take much in fact, 4 extra keys for up/down, periscope depth and surface, passive sonar on, with consumables for detection longer range and higer underwater speed, unverwater maps which doesn't need to be as developed as that of the surface considering the look possible for this environment. How about that? You manage this, even limited to Co-Op, i'll buy the first premium you put on sale, granted.

So comparing her to the ship we were talking about was stoopid and i'm not about to play RN Cls anyway, camping in smoke cocoons is not for me, even playing a DD...

After a BAD, BAD start. Being deleted several games in a row in two salvos by a Kiev who think he is good vs a TVII DD, LOL! tonight mm was FUBARD for the best part of 10 games or so, but those Kiev players, YERK, worst kind.

Ah OK. Thanks guys for your opinions and sharing experience. I used Hydro to torp a DD in his smoke bubble in my last PT game, still have to understand how all of this works within this environment vs higer tiers than i'm realyl used to, like radar, which caught me off guard.

Edited. This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks

What is funny is the way you comprehend people's English, before posting make your you do, you missed the point by a mile. We were comparing tV, do you copy up to now? Is tV "British CA" or ONE tV in the British line? Now, Can you possibly compare the Emerald gunnery to that of a Konigsberg or a Kirov? NO, even her secondaries done't have the same fire chances than the main guns of the Konigsber mains and all her other gun characteristics are lower bar dispertion, which matters little since intitial shell velocity more than compensate for it. All this fuss about how British Cruisers blah-d-blah is hardly distracting from the fact that my point was spot-on, her guns are WEAK and i also said that i couldn't comment on higher tiers since i didn't research or play them. Get over it and keep laughing all you want, you spoke by the wrong end of your being, it doesn; it sound good.

Yeah, my idea of tactic on such ship as well, as long as i'm not spotted i keep my AA guns in cheek, no need to take more risks with a DD, concealment is one of our strength and main asset, and after test, Z-23 seems pretty good with that, what i particulary like is the range of her torpedoes, it leaves you with more than 2 km buffer to launch them when all concealment capabilities are there and it is unvaluable. I didn't know about the guns, so you think one can do away with Main Armaments Modification 1? That's an extra 2 point useable for something else...

LOL! You have a very strange idea of tactics yourself, i just played another one of those all out attack games and yet again we won, and that on a ship i only play because i want to get to an higher tiers in her line, not my playstyle at all. I can't help it if you're much too often camping and can't figure there are other ways than yours, more to it, that you came to regard yourself so highly so as to end up believing is baffling, so before you lecture people on how wrong they do things, look at what your bunch have obtained as a result from W.G, a total revision of the ship capabilities because what you wre doing "right" lead to camping, sorry, but when i need an opinion on what i do wrong i ask somewhere else. So to sum you up, i got my stats up from 45% Win rate to 48.14% in less than two month, together with Personal Rating, Average Damage and Avg. experience by listening to all the B.S you guys keep telling us are the only way to play this game? Man you need a collective drop from the high orbit you placed yourself because i achieved this precisely for the reason that i refused to take your religion and the rest of it on board and done my own thing, you can't have it both way, critic my refusal to listen and then refuse to aknowledge this fact, i don't need you, your opinions and the rest of it to improve, far from it and there are other ways to play this game efficiently than yours. Best of it, W.G made sure i get the satisfaction to know i was right, because they changed what you guys were asking to be kept to go on doing your little baby seal clubing and invisifiring/HE spaming thing. BIG badaboum. You havent figured that one yet?

When i read your replies they sure are.

I see your points. About mm and akatsuki i tend to disagree though, especially with the arrival of all the Russian and German gunboats not to mention CVs, i play often enough vs tIX with her and its' far from easy. AA on the Aka i did find useless, the only DDs which seems to be able to get proper AA are the USN ones, better spend upgrade and points on something more useful, as for the Z-23 her concealment can be brought quiet low with Concealment Expert skill and Concealment System Modification 1? Thisis what i am planing to do when i manage to get her in my port. I'm not so much into hunting DDs, i prefer a better ballance of concealment, torps and guns capabilities than a pure gun boat, and from stock the Z-23 seems to allow for gearing her up this way, going through this line i'm sure i'm going to improve on my gunnery skills though, German guns are awesome on DDs and Cruisers.

Are you going to spin and twist yourself to knots again? What tier do you need to go up to to compare the British line to a Kirov or a Konigsberg? TVII? FACT: You were wrong and please dont make it worse for yourself, my statment was perfectly justified, especially in the context of the debate on the two other ships, they have excellent guns and the equivalent British Cl have weak ones, and if the French tV is as good with guns as those two, it's going to be even worse for the Emerald, the only thing she has to go for is smoke, and it's certainly not one aspect of the game which attracts me the slightest.

Right, you haven't taken a loot at their stats did you? I did and took the only chance of fire figure there is for this ship which is Secondaries, even those have a lower chance of fire. And it still made my point, Emerald guns are weak in comparison as i said.

I can't recall that many games where there were 6BBs on each sides, but i saw games without any of them, then you can complain as a Cl player, imagine a DD one to two tiers lower, as far as i know, the first to get targeted aren't the Cruisers because you'r behind us, and although i do not have as much games in Cls i still managed to play the USN line up to tX, higher than any of my DDs... If you were a BB player you could come up with the same question, and i tell you what, they are my priority targets in a DD as they are in Cls or BBs, they are the most dangerous, since they can one-shot you and in our favourite ships no? I should know, playing the Montana, even not so well, i still managed to delete a couple of ships with one salvo, but on the other hand, everyone is targeting BBs in return, it's the same whatever ship you play when you become the attention of a ship that outguns you or many ships for that matter and have little or no support from your team. So from where i am standing, the issue is not so much how many ships will target you, but how many other targets there will be for the shooters within the same range. Otherwise said, how much support you have from your team mates, how many BB will tank and share the damage, how many ships have the right angle to provide you with fire support, how many will dare pushing and maneuvring to get their firing solution instead of staying concealed and limit themselves to one or two target of opportunity, and when you're gone, how many of them are going to come up with the excuse "he was out of position", "he yolowed", "he rushed", and so on. Sorry, this is complete B.S, when a team plays aggressively, there are too many targets for most Random games players to coodrinate properly and single out one, there is too many incoming fire to deal with and generally this ends up with a team snowballing the other one and panick. I saw this happening while playing the Koningsberg which is not the tankiest of ship, and i was in front with a couple of DDs leading us and another Cl right behind me followed by our BBs who were taking cares of their own, they had their support and i had mine, that's how a dynamic game works, but if everyone is camping or try to conceal until detected, all the long range shooters have to do is pick them up as they come starting by the most vulnerable of course. Do i have a solution? NO. Do i have an advise to give? Yes, dont play with sissies, campers or smoke firing specialists, you're going to stay static and loose your mobility which is one of Cruisers assets if i'm not mistaking, play as close as possible to your DDs and give them the support they need, they are your eyes and without them a team is blind (when they're not played by some idiots smoke firing hoping you'll spot for them) but of course, you can't chose who you play with in Random.

That's what he does best (by a margin), welcome to his list of victims. Note that they will keep whining and play the same tune all along, when it's not BB players it's the Russian, but it's never they playstyle or lack of adaptability skills or the fact that W.G got pissed of their abuse of loopholes in this game and refused to hear their whining, playing ships in a way they were never intended to in the first place and trying to impose it upon everyone else like a god damned religion. "There is only ONE way to play! And it's MINE!" If i listened to them i still would be called "Mr 45% win rate" by those geezers, but i didn't and my "bad" stats went through the roof, i gained 3.13% win rate in less than two month, same for my P.R, Average Damage and Average Experience, and i still won't listen, guees why? So my tip, do your BB thing you way, improve on it, and let Geeezus crie, the caravan will pass anyway.

Oh? Is that true? I can't believe 0 (ZE.RO) chances of fire for the main guns is a reality. I'm not into religion like some geezers, i stick to what is written on the box and the figures i given are those of from the official W.G pages on the Wiki site for both ships, the difference being i given that of Emerald secondaries HE. So well spotted (or so you think), but it makes my case even stronger, Emerald guns are weak compared to that of the Konigsberg, and i spoke from experience since it is the precise reason why i sold it, the ship feels "soft" and doesn't have much to go for bar the smoke firing thing if you're into it but i'm not even playing DDs. Now, since i don't recall playing anything higher in British Cruisers tiers, i can't comment on the others but this experience with Emerald was enough to stop me grinding the rest of them, it doesn't take a lot of games to judge the potential of a ship and unless you're into it for historical reasons like i was in the case of the US lines, i don't see any reasons for grinding ships which characteristics and playstyle i don't like. Now, from what i understood, the Emile Bertin could be a lot closer to the Konigsberg and if she turns out to be my thing after testing i'll probably grind her, what i am waiting for though, is the French line of DDs if their torps are that good....