ThinderChief

Since i play USN Cruisers, i make a point at protecting them (and other ships) with my AA cover by getting in the flight path of ennemy A-Cs, it's part of the game as was in real life, i can remember killing a full squadron in one torp attack on a BB this way, i ended up with 7 A-C kills plus support fire vs red ships, my only regret is that i don't get the hang of playing one properly.

Same here, many games are unplayable, i'm re-installing now, to try to sort out this issue. Got killed on the grid too many times, or had to start 3/5 mn after everyone else if still alive. No fun.

I disengage regularly too, it's called a "yoyo" maneuver in aviators terms, following a target trajectory parralele to it, you get in, fire, and out, then back, with some ships it works well because they can do that fast and reload fast, if they are maneuvrable enough. What i failed to appreciate is that those guys had no intention to re-gengage at all and that i was on my own, and i was watching my map regularly it's only when they were out of support range that i started to get every red in the area attention. On the other hand, i was called a troll for failing to get into a trap and being among the last to die after giving support from a distance, the "top" guys went in get their kills and XP but died, leaving me and a couple of DD vs the remaining red team, i engaged a BB and got HE spammed and torp by i dont know what, who blamed the other? Note that i had high ping and loads of lag, i am currently re-installing the game because most of my time is plagued by these issues, the number of time i even get killed "on the grid" is ridiculous, or i can only start after everyone else is already at a distance... As long as you can put rounds on target consistently distance is only an issue in regard to return fire, you can get into a furball but then you loose HP, it's a trade off. In some maps i am successful at sniping in others much less, and there are things i dont like doing, like hiding behind rocks, but since i'm still learning the game we will see how my play style evolve. I know this scenario is rather unlikely but 1vs1 i can win most of my engagements, it's my thing and was the same playing WoT, with sniping, where i CANT is when there are hidden Cruisers spamming HE at you or DD sneaking and torpedoing you, i'm not very much at ease with the reticle system yet, so i spend too much time zoomed in and must force myself to get my head off it. That's where support comes in to play in order of importance, because when there is support the return fire is much less dense. Zathras_Grimm, on 22 November 2016 - 01:20 PM, said: HE fire chance down, Really? I didn't noticed. What i figured is that many guys seems to chose THE best ship at spamming HE and one reason is because they cant really aim that well, number of times they missed from long/mid range... But hidden behind a rock once they get your distance etc or in their smoke screen, then it's a fest, they play those Cruisers like BBS, which doesn't have pen i understand that but, it's WAY TOO MUCH HE abuse, so lower risk of fire would level up things a bit... I only fire HE at targets i CANT pen, like the Yamato or so, or at DD, but the rest of them i make a point at pening them, the more citadel i got the better, i despise this HE spamming play style..

quoted post removed I dont use aimbot.

I​ think it's a question of getting used to it, at max range I fire a full broadside especially if the target is angled, but 10.000m, I can hit a target with only one turret firing every single time, I just done it in my last game and I have less than 10 games with it. Dispersion is not that good but there are 3 guns per turret, on the Colorado, I can't count the number of times where I managed to put one shell in the water on each side of a target from the front and when I tried to hit it with only one gun it didn't work much better. I snipe a lot from max range with it, often I don't even wait to see the result and I hear the "bip" indicating a hit while I refresh my S.A, map, targets etc, and move/accelerate/slow down whenever possible, in fact I hit targets more often per shoot with this ship. If my hit ratio looks worth than with the Colorado I think it is mostly due to the fact that I hit one shell out of 3 rather than two when I did hit at all with the two guns configuration. This ship guns works for me and does a lot of damages, plus, I don't know why but I have a positive (for me, above 50%) win rate with it, so overall it's a positive result, and the shell arc is very useful at long range too.

Well yes i depends on the maps but I didn't say that within this context, I mean what happens when everyone in your side seems to run away from the threat when you engage only to find yourself on your own or with another single player who also assumed everyone was going to engage? Yesterday I had one of my last games with the Colorado (I'm now playing a North Carolina) I was in the right of two BBs who looked like they had trouble coming to terms with a couple of red BBS and two Cruisers, plus a DD we haven't seen yet. Next thing I know I am engaging to support them, the two BB turn away. After a few mn, the red DD pops out from nowhere, we dispatched one Cruiser but while I am engaging a BB I realise my "support" are for one too far back to do anything useful and hiding behind a rock, and for other, he is now is full steam in the opposite direction trying to regroup with the other half of the team, with only his back turret to support IF he was doing it at all. Suffice to say I didn't last long since I was outnumbered 4 to 1. Not good. Now, when I get wasted this way, I take a snapshot with the map zoomed in so to see who is where and it's saying a lot about the team. I snipe a lot from a distance and OK BBs are slow but I am used to read my map (like the radar in Flight Sims) often enough to see a situation evolving and in many cases unless you're on a very fast ship, when a side collapses there is little you can do and they collapse because people doesn't take their chances and don't let you know they're out of the fight. On the other hand if you can't rely on those on your side of the map, then you're dead in no time, team looses positions, guns and initiative, when I snipe, I can guaranty you that I shoot nearly as early as I have reloaded, now I swap targets if necessary like you would in a dogfight (a fireball we call that when there are many A-Cs) and that's just as well because I spare my HP for this sort of situation. With nearly 18 km range with my new ship, I can score and often recover stealth manoeuvring while I reload, the ship is good for doing that so I do it as long as the situation allows, I score hits and even kills this way. At the end of the day I believe one is only as good as his team in this sort of games, you can be a genius, if your team is not that good and the other guys aggressive, you'll loose. You CANT win an engagement vs 3/4 ships, it's not like a dogfight where it is not only possible to win a 1v2/4 scenario (number can turn against the adversary because of risks of collision for a start, and the more targets you have the more snapshots you can take and you only can shoot in front of you), it's sheer 360* firepower and you get overwhelmed fast. I believe players doesn't understand how fast one ship can get done and stop supporting waiting for support themselves (or whatever). I'm new in this game, so game plans, forget about it anyway, but with a good team I end up making progresses, both in hit ratio, damages caused, tactics etc, so playing with good teams is important for newbies. Ships aren't tanks, I don't believe that BBs are mean for "assault", they are much too vulnerable to good DDs and even well played Cruisers, it's a combined effort that wins it, am I wrong? With my Baltimore (and N-O before it), I end up trying to keep BBs in my AA range and if possible at all in the flight line of red A-Cs on their way to the carrier if there is one. Doing this and pounding red ships is not always easy but it works...

Oh? You too? You end up feeling like not one team "mate" did support you? LOL! Frankly, the number of games where the green seems to vanish in thin air at once, when a couple of red dots appears is closing to ridiculous, if I don't watch my map for both green and red I end up totally isolated real fast, then it's "push nob" and the rest of it, blah, when I complain, but it's a loss most of the time too. WTH?​ I see a target I think "engage" like I would, playing a good flight sim (the most accurate in the business that is, and in modern era shoot outs we start BVR, Beyond Visual Range). I assume other players on my side does too, no so admiral... So yeah, I started playing BB and I get the taste for them, right now with the ​Colorado, damned slow, only two guns per turret (how many times did I put one in both side of a target?) but I expect better from the next one. I don't spend my time running after DDs or Cruisers if I can, I engage the fat boyz, what I hate though are those HE spammers, be it playing my Colorado or Baltimore, skill less and gutless, they can't shot to pen, so they carpet bomb you with napalm. Yerk. In my opinion, after a few hundred games, it's NOT a question of BB not engaging or supporting, it's a question of players NOT doing it overall, following each other like sheep or only wanting to score XP. Try DDs, they will let you die, the only reason why they shoot at the red DD is XP and a possible kill, same for Cruisers, (with a special mention for the HE spammers), so BB is not different. When I start a game I often say "DONT let them get to the carrier!" if there is one, especially playing the Baltimore like the New Orleans before it, I take my AA role seriously, I engage BVR and still try to provide AA cover to BBs and intercept the aircrafts going for the carrier, now I am not sure every player in this game comprehend that, hence what I feel being an unbalance in team plays. I'm no genius but I know for sure with a good team I generally can pull a good game, you guys have the same problem.

Thanks guys! I'm playing Baltimore now, not the top hull or turret yet and I still can grab this drift on the radar? I got option II mounted, so do this mean i can see through smoke now? I look forward for getting hold of this DesMoines, after nursing my Commander from one ship to the other hoping it will help too, I guess it will give an extra hooomph to the ship, plus I really prefer the 3gun/turret configuration, I can't count the number of times I got one shell on both side of a ship with only two. Thanks again for your advises.

It's money well placed, I tried both solution with different nationalities, and maxed out my USN Captains, transferring them from one ship to the other, it really is worth it, at the end of the day, you might get enough perf to recover the investment. For ships that can get disable more easily than others, Preventative Maintenance might work, it's 5 points but ​-50% to the risk of incapacitation of modules, and with the previous adding 3.600 HP to the ship I think it would help this citadel issue.

​Yeah, I got the hang of its guns at the end when I got the modules for it, i'm with the New Orleans now and I love it, it's fast, maneuvers well, is relatively stealthy, has got very good guns, and when i'm not plagued with lag that makes the whole thing unplayable I can pull a good game, but it's (lag) 1 out of 5 games at the moment, not fun. What I have done with my Captain looks to pay off, I transfered it from tI to the next ship to max out the capabilities of the whole thing and it feels a lot smoother to play. I wonder what the next will be like, another 75.00 XP to go or so and in view of its characteristics I might actually splash a few dosh to get it a permanent camo and radar. DesMoines is my goal though but I am getting the taste for BBs although Colorado is damned slow and I prefer to have 3 guns per turret, so I might go up both ladders with the USN ships.

Really? So if i'm with two BBs and they are 3 you find it a better deal to get your XP with the lowest XP carrier? LOL. I go the other way round, I see a BB playing a Cruiser I think "mmm, juicy big fat target). The "threat later on" is a bad excuse no less, and you guys make up your mind, if my stats tells you I don't do enough damage to them then i'm no threat to a BB. Ah. You are already changing tune here, "forced to snipe" is when you do not have the HP to exchange your way, meaning, the kind of ship I like to play and look forward to play like the Iowa, less armour, more speed, good guns, natural sniper. As for the way I play with a good team it results in this (New Orleans): 46.00 damage.1Xcitadel.8X defended.1 (DD) destroyed.1X set on fire.1.260 damage On team score i come third behind a LEANDER and an AMAGI, respectively 1.402 and 1.421 XP playing mostly at longer range. Top red is an Amagi with i kill and 1.131 XP. I took a few hits from a salvo from a BB but boy, they payed for it: One Bayern took 11.546 damage, the other one 8.112, i killed a DD because it's my role, and then turned an Aboa to shred with 11.454 damage, then a Cleveland 8.878.In 15 mn 32 i traveled 33.650 kt or 65.32 km as they say it (why on hearth in naval warfare do we have to deal with km? Lucky we don't have to navigate the way it's done in real life). So that's the difference between low damage ratio and a good team, if you wonder, next don't pull "stats" on a newbie, you never know he might come from WoT and seen it, wear the T-Shirt. And something else, doing it this way because it need to be done or you don't last is the difference between well armored and fast ships in this game, it's a compromise, a trade off. I don't know who is camping and who is sniping because I don't know the other BBs but I certainly am not a camper, I get into the dirt when I must, against whatever target I need to engage, that's also one aspect of my stats, I think team/protect carrier/DD before all when the team is good, it works. Now, have a look at the stats of the ship i'm after, Des Moines and you will see they need to be played from a distance, sneaking and sniping. That's what I develop as a playing style and we will see the result later on. For the time being, with the (not fully equipped) New Mexico, i'm struggling to bet anywhere close to something to shot and got hit from all sides, not good, the New Orlean is more to my liking and when the team is good I not only can keep up but also often end up in the top 3, if not like many times I don't last. To finish, I try to keep my targets in my "kill zone", the two circles, max detection and firing range, sometimes like with the New Orleans, they are so closed to each other, you have little time to maneuver to avoid return fire, the kill zone is too narrow, so hiding behind Irelands can be a goo idea, although I tend to escort the BBs a lot more and am naturally more likely to get hit. I hope this will change with my future tIX and tX.

Get off my back Mr "analyst", you know nothing of my games or the teams I played with you weren't there, and AGAIN this "stats" thing is getting to your heads, collectively you're like addicts, nothing else matters but stats, you're dismissed, I don't take this kind of attitude from guys who in reality are middle ranked players (you're top 3? NO, so get over it and try lecturing someone else).

​ My point exactly, there is no shame in sniping if the ship is good at it, as I explained earlier, the point is to put as many rounds on targets for as long as possible, in the process if one can spare his/her HP for later on, when (if) there is no option but to get into a dirt fight, what would be the point of over-exposing one self in the name of some Nelson wannabe? I saw a game where both sides of our teams were getting hammered because they rushed, 5 mn later everyone was calling for defending the base while I was engaging an isolated heavy to protect the carrier he was after, not only they didn't give me any support, they also let a DD through to kill our carrier. Great example of bad team work, so I can tell I am happy I did hit some at long range before loosing to this heavy AND those who came to support him, we loose because the enemy team does what WE don't as a team.

​Yeah right... Like I care, I see them coming when most of the guys i'm pitted with doesn't what do you think? The whole point being none of YOU bragging in forums are capable of winning it for the entire team, and vs equally skilled players and equipment, your stats wouldn't be looking that good, get over it you feed on lower skilled guys, we all do and if you only kill better than you then you'rte either a genius who ignore the laws of probability or have preferential mm, take your pick. It is rather arrogant to pretend to have such weight in those games where you are not and where teams are wiped out because of unbalanced players skill levels between teams, you said it yourself "an average enemy team", am I supposed to be impressed? I do the same with lesser skilled players, the point is we all are as good as the team point out, i'm curious to know what you'd do in a team wipe out... No mention here of the way some of you plays those heavies, forget about their role of taking out other heavies, nope, they go after the weakest to get those kills to brush up your "stats", which would be understandable if it was after spotters, considering the threat, but no. So, it would be VERY interesting to figure out WHO KILLS WHAT and showing it in stats, because I keep getting killed doing MY job of supporting MY heavies in my New Orleans while often getting little support from other team members playing DDs or BB, that's the whole point, as was the case in WoT, heavies does not do their jobs, they do that of mediums and get the XP. The issue at end here is one none of you wants to bring up, players have different priorities (due to levels of skills and equipment) than yours and YOUR way is NOT the only way to play this game due to those parameters, they have their limitation and that of the player's ships.

​FACT are 1) I DONT care the slightest your opinion. 2) Your stats only reflects what the other team let you do, like that of the two guys who get wipe out rushing in one side of the map only for everyone to figure most red BBs were coming where I thought they would. Obviously I didn't last much longer but at least I had some time to see it coming, reason being I positioned myself for sniping. Result, in 5 mn everyone in my side was D.E.A.D, so stop this B.S you're beginning to pull the hell out of me, you talk like someone who believe that he is the game winner, let me phrase it in plain English to you: YOU ARE NOT. You're like everyone else, part of a team and if it is bad I doubt very much that you will fare better than below average, I have NO problem 1vs1 whatever the tier and type, often going after the heaviest, and I won most of my engagements this way, THIS is skills, the rest is tactical and develops according to teams. So your guys insistence in pulling "stats" to make false point is relevant to ego tripping NOT reality. I reiterate in a last attempt to make you comprehend what developers says this game is about, DIFFERENT ships, different play styles. Debate is close and my stats has got little to do with this. Eat it.

In your case it's pretty obvious that you're impervious to comprehension of what people are trying to achieve even if explained several time over in plain English, especially by not reading the comments. Let me make it clear to you, as was the case in WoT, I do not WANT to play YOUR way, I don't like it and I develop a play style based on what I am good at, which is gunnery and manoeuvring and require a particular type of ships, since i'm only at the 430th game and do not know the ships, I don't see why I should take your opinions on my stats into account, if the FACT that I don't care at all about it is not clear enough by now, tough, your lot. And something else, if you think that your win ratio is related to your level of skill then you're seriously deluded, thinking you might be able to win it on your own perhaps? You guys got to stop this kidy thing it's becoming tedious. End of debate.

Listen mate, ANYONE calling "stats" looses all credibility to my eyes, you're here pretending to be the only one to be able to read a map (really how do you know how to position yourself or find targets if you don't read the map? DHO!!!) or English and YET you forget all about the other team skill levels (try playing vs equally skilled and come back with more than 50% win rate then we'll take you seriously) and the very fact that WoW themselves says EXACTLY the same than me. ALL ships have their own characteristics and none is really meant to be played the same way or only YOUR way for that matter, more to the point I just won a game scoring a top 3 playing exactly this way with New Orleans READ and compare to Iowa: ​Pros: Faster firing high caliber guns. ​Cons: Armor must to be angled to be effective. How clear does this need to be for you to compute and how different is it from a Iowa? ​​S​o since the US guns are good and the armor so/so WHY would anyone want to try to get close when they can shot from a safe distance? Developing this kind of play I managed to get over a kill ratio of 1.1 with a WZ121 medium tank (average precision HIGH dpm), going mostly after heavies and I intend to do exactly the same here, playing Cruisers or BBs, if I need advises it's on long range gunnery to get an even higher hit ratio, I wont ask yours, don't worry. So pack up the ego tripping, kiddie's plumbery comparing stuff and mediocre last resort flame bating B.S, I had an hard uprising and saw tons of geezers like you in WoT before coming here, before you make an impression on me you'll need a lot more than your "stats", talking sense and not saying the opposite of what the developers themselves says would be a good start, and something else, the day I need an advise on how to play I know where to ask and you're NOT on my list. I hope you copy clear and loud. Yeah precisely, as if I didn't know the decreasing effects of shells with distance, more shells on targets does the trick and if you're not spotted and hit it's way better, especially with weaker armor. YOUR "theory" doesn't apply to all players or types of ships, it's NOT a theory it's a FACT, so write this page and go over it, and I nearly forgot, I take it that your skills at long range are below average, because you play the Indianapolis too and I don't see such higher hit ratio playing at mid range like you do, what YOUR stats indicates to me mostly is that you're more likely to be supported than me because you're more often with players able to provide support or that you do not have the misfortune to know more than the rest of the team where to find targets and find yourself isolated because everyone else is gone shopping for nappies, precisely what your pals are complaining about, talk "stats", LOL! That's what mm is about and your level of skills DEPENDS on that of the opposite team, vs equally skilled we all would end up average, bragging is seriously FUBAR. End of the flame bate.

Nah sorry. You get the WRONG definition of sniping in the first place, (perhaps mistaking with camping?), it's NOT about "trying" it's actually doing it and putting as many rounds in targets in the minimum amount of time as possible, snipe and move, keep your targets between your detection and firing range to engage and stay undetected, THIS is what snipers does in real life, are you saying that they are inefficient? If you like to exchange XP in the name of whatever idea of "taking control of the map" as if you're the only one who comprehend the tactical aspect of the game, you may, that's your problem, but I have played this way win or loose in both WoT and WoW and I can guaranty you that it is one of the most effective way to add your firepower to the team, I should now, since I get deleted real fast often enough when I play Cruisers by BBs doing exactly that. In short, on the receiving hand of the technique, you have NO clue whatsoever where the shot come from, can't often cant even take evasive action since you can't see the shooter ("incoming" warning is not giving you any opportunity to try to dodge the shot) when well executed, this play style also allow you to face an opponent with max HP when necessary, and it works for all manoeuvrable ships with good guns. I suspect that you do not have the necessary skills to play otherwise than at mid range with something that has more armour than your opponent but I prefer a ship that can move and snipe to some giant floating bunker, I have to do that too with the mid-tiers US BB but frankly, it's nowhere as fun as to be able to snipe, and btw, this way I also was able to take on supposedly superior ships from mid to close range at the end, simply because I had enough HP to spare. There are room for both ways to play this (depending on ships characteristics) and yours is only better with ships with the most HP, highest DPM and better armour, I doubt very much that you will be able to play this way in an Iowa, instead you will be wasting its most potent quality which is precisely long range gunnery. Example of qualities (and lack of it) that makes a good sniper: ​http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Iowa Same gun range as her predecessor and highest range for a battleship at her tier. Better penetration and shell velocity compared to North Carolina due to the 50 caliber gun. Now the reason for sniping with this ship: Weaker broadside armor than Standard Battleships, but stronger broadside armor than the NC.​. Bad rudder shift time (over 20 sec) until the C hull. Longest ship so far (by a decent margin) in the USN line which can take some getting used to when trying to dodge torpedoes. Very tall superstructure makes her easier to hit, especially when trying to hide behind islands. Bad gun dispersion (at long ranges). Weak secondary armament, very low range on secondary armament as well compared to counterparts. So as this shows too well, you CANT camp with this ship you need to SNIPE, meaning, keeping your targets in your kill zone which involves maneuvring, this, between your maxi firing and detection ranges, stay undetected as long as possible and if detected, maneuver so as to keep those shooters where you want them while firing at them. I can guaranty you that in some games I keep firing as early as I reloaded, on the other hand it is more difficult to achieve the perfect sniping game on some maps because of the number of obstacles to your line of fire and the way many ships are actually using those obstacles, so you will in this case chose open sea and keep them in your kill zone all the same, chances to be detected will be higher but you will have more time to see those rounds coming. This is what sniping is about not what you think it is. Now, this is the SAME debate than seen in WoT, people preach for their churches but at the end of the day, it is the vehicle/ship which should dictate the best way to play it, some maps might suit them more than other, best example from WoT, try to play an AMX-30B like an IS-7 for a laugh, the 30B was conceives and designed as a fast moving (positioning) sniper, some ships are conceived and designed in a similar fashion. I don't comprehend the way XP is computed but this is an example of what I see routinely, I am not sure about those BBs gun and armour qualities, but there is a reason why I chose the US line and you have them listed (from Wiki) above. To me what matters is to put rounds on targets for as long as possible and I can't do the as long as possible bit with ships that doesn't have the right armour, again it is the ship that should be dictating the play style and even tactics, not the other way around. Then since everyone knows about upgrades, we don't know what state of upgrade their ships were, I play ships that are better suited to carrier protection other better for engaging and exchanging XP, they require different play styles. The real problem with Random as in WoT btw, is the lack of natural instinct for team work, low level of communication also plays a role (I never been in the equivalent of a platoon yet in WoW), so you have to judge by yourself how the situation evolves, now the number of times I figured where the reds would come and find myself isolated is funny, I share your dislike for being left down, but it is the nature of the game in its current set up: Different interests.

Am not sure about the technical stuff but the Black Swan is the funniest ship to play then it comes to gunnery, I positively love it. If the Gearing is as fun then it's all for the better.

I'm also new in WoW and I figured that there are some ships that doesn't cut it for me and other does, in all 4 branches I grind. In lower tiers I love the Black Swan, best gunnery ever for fun, so I tried to find this feeling back with BBs (pretty much with all types) and I went USN, so far so good. What makes me happy are good guns and I don't mind the "weird" ballistic, I play them the same way than Chinese tanks in WoT, at long range as long as possible. I honestly think it is a matter of taste, each person having his/her own playstyle, some like armour, some agility, so it's about looking for the qualities one requires in one ship. Right now i'm with the New Mexico, still loads of XP from Colorado which at least on paper is looking like my new niche. ​As a newby, I cant really tell which one is best but I would recommend trying a couple of different lines and look at the ships stats, once you know what you like, which characteristics let you play best, also play Carriers, DD and Cruisers alike, it helps see from your future adversary perspectives.

I'm curious to know how getting close, exposing yourself to targets you haven't spotted yet and becoming the priority target of the red team is going to help (happened to me more than once when I get isolated for a reason or another). BB are floating long range arty and after all they can cause a lot of damage a very long range, I do the same with the Pensacola, as long as possible, from beyond 12.00 km simply because I can and do not have much HP to eschange. If anything i'm the kind of player who ever-expose himself a lot more than necessary, I engage whatever come my way regardless of tiers or type, but i'm a fair shoot and I recon engaging from max range, trying to stay undetected for as long as possible during the entire game is the best way to support your team, nothing to do with camping, try WoT for the real definition of campers. I've learn playing BB that hiding behind an Ireland doesn't mean you can't shoot and score damages, you have a spotting aircraft and it is a lot more efficient to play this way than to get into a scrap, a BB can't win against a par of good cruisers or even a single sneaky DD, I should know I killed a few BB with them myself, you can't get into a dogfight and reload time is awful, secondary wont help much in most cases either. So I don't know what kind of players you are mentioning but I saw replays (I'm new in this game) and tried to apply those tricks, It worked a lot better for me than being hyper-aggressive like I need to be on a torpedo run in a DD. In short, if you have good long-range gunnery skills, use them, spare your HP for the end of the game, that's not camping, it's called sniping.

​Thank you. I played the Pensacola for a few games and my hit ratio is gone down the drain real fast, i'm lucky playing it my usual way if I can put one shot on target, mainly because of slow turret traverse speed and the fact that I do not know how to play it, so i think you understand why i put the emphasis on good gunnery in whatever game I might be playing, from stock, the Cleveland i a better ship from stock i think... It's gonna take me some time to grind the next tier and first impression, i wont miss the Pen. I start with the Japanese line, I do the DD with USN, i'd like to get myself a Cleveland.

I'm OK with your points mostly S.A and positioning (not taking your comments as lecture, I can see you're trying to help), gunnery skills are important to me because I go after BB with Destroyers since I don't like low agility in gaming and don't play the heavies, so I better be able to pull a lot of damages, especially supporting my team's BBs. In my last game, I managed to quickly kill 2DD who were making my life a hell, spotting for the other reds, at mid range despite the gun's characteristics and their dodging, plus I started to deplete a Konig's HP before I ended up targeted by 3/4 different red ships. We lost but i'm top third, I guess if the rest of the team had pulled their weight we would have won it despite the red top scorers being quiet good. Gunnery is the first thing I learn and practise since it comes naturally to me (before qualifying for sniper training you need to be a good shot,i never been in this situation but it is a basic principle) and needs lot less games to learn, about the US shells ballistics, I am well aware of that, comparing WoW with WoT (or rather bring the experience to this game) also have its advantages, since you can also use different gun characteristics in the other game, depending on shell velocity. I am not too bothered with this one, the point for me being to be able to put rounds on target no matter what gun I use, so it helps when the gun's dmp and range are high and accuracy good enough for me, when not then I have a problem and no amount of sneaking is going to change that, you need to learn it with the maps and experience of the game. Good to know the difference Captain training is making because I just get the Pensacola, i'll try both solution to see what kind of feel I get from both, i'm sensitive to this kind of response in the games but I take your point 100%, for the moment I am experimenting and discovering the game little by little. I understand that you like the other lines but I am very impressed by the Desmoines and it looks (on paper at least) like the right Cruiser for me, don't worry about how I might feel about the next tiers until tX, i'm used to this sort of situation. The IJN line seems to have impressed you though, I take notice.

Point taken about the IJN line, although I think I will continue to grind the US one as I started IJN it might be the next alternative. Thanks. I did guess so looking at the specs of the next tier, i saw that in WoT too in some lines where you have a good mid-tier then average perfs until the top end, it doesn't bother me too much although i find it ennoying, if i am motivated i will go through it anyway and it is always good to learn different skills too, dodging sneaking and escaping. When it comes to amo I get some real life experience in my country Air Force as a weapon specialist, so I guess I am used to comprehend the mechanics, for a ship being easy to play, it doesn't bother me too much, for as long as it is not paper armoured like the Atlanta, I need a less fragile ship to be able to get into scraps if necessary. I'm not happy with camping as a basic tactic... I'd like to thank you all for your kind effort on replying. Cheers and horns up!

Interesting point about long range gunnery with this ship. I had the same basic issue playing a medium WZ121 which gun is from stock not among the most accurate but have high pen and dpm, I nursed the crew to hell to improve and that and it worked, I got hit ratio above 75% with it and man, when this 122mm hits, it does a lot of damage. So I guess this is what I expect from doing the same with my top Cruiser Captain right now, ten km+ is already good, if skills can improve accuracy passed this range, I can manage with a little practise., so I keep collecting XP to train him and will transfer him fully trained with doublon to the next ship etc, as I did for my tX medium tank. I work in support of BB, generally I let them "paint" the target for me, in some games, I managed some proper damage on heavies without being detected once, this way, later in the game I have 100% HP to spare for a scrap if the game/circumstances forces me into getting close and personal, in one game I managed the last kill vs a BB, I wouldn't have been able to do that if I hadn't spared my HP supporting those heavies. ps sorry guys, I have reached my quota of positive votes for the day, don't think I don't like your replies if I don't "like" them...