ThinderChief

FACT: they (HE) have a certain armor penetration capability, equal to about 1/6 of shell's diameter. FACT: a 800 m/s HE shell will travel 800 / 500 * 2.6 = 4,16 in-game meters before exploding. Hitting a ship at the very front or rear may lead to an overpenetration, although even if the HE shell leaves the hull, it might damage the ship due to splash damage.However, splash radius is not the same for all HE shells. There could be a ship in-game with sufficiently high shell speed and low splash radius whose HE shell is capable of penetrating a ship's hull and leave it again within 2 milliseconds, then explode outside its splash radius. FACT: ver-penetrations deal x0.10 of the shell's listed damage. Over-penetration is when a shell penetrates the ship through-and-through, before it has a chance to detonate inside the ship. Theoretically HE will never over-penetrate due to its low detonator threshold and shorter fuze. Where does it make your case for higher knowledge and understanding on the mechanics involving HE shells exactly? You cannot even comprehend the last phrase properly, buy an Oxford and stop taking people for granted please. Cheers. Right.... So according to you traveling at less than 1000 m/s after being fired at short range already rules out over pen on the basis that your superior knowledge of aerodynamics says so? LOL! Try transonic drag and critical mach number for a laugh and figure when exactly your shell is going to start to drag enough to loose that much velocity, 1000 m/s is closer to hypervelocity than high velocity, just a taught, want to go there?... You make me laugh you know what? I serviced hundred of thousand of HE/OPIT shells you weren't born so "in theory" i know exactly what it means when it comes to delayed fuses and it's even more obvious to me when it comes to this game because as i pointed out, risks of over pen increases with penetration power.

I dont need to prove anything mattey, i stick to what is written on the box as opposed to you and that's "theorically, HE doesn't over pen", not your assumption that it never can because you know it all. What i proved tough, is that your bunch cannot be trusted to tell things as they are and think of your collective knowledge way too highly.

Well it appers that you understood wrong because if there was 0 intertia, there wouldn't penetration in the first place, HE shell can penetrate, since they travel at sufficient speed to over pen before fusing and that not doing so is only mentioned as theorically, IFHE over penetration cannot be ruled out as HE over penetration is not itself. No it has nothing to do with French Cruisers, it has to do with the trolling of some egotripers who pretend to know it all and spam my posts every time i express an opinion different to theirs, must be this feeling of insecurity triggered by W.G when they "didn't listen". Say who? You? Sums up how much you take yourself seriously, i don't know what you smoke but please, quit asap.

That's where the head of those who translates "theorically" into "100% certainty because i'm a W-E or Beta Tester and i know it all" must be for sure, and deep, no wonder your bunch is so frustrated by W.G who doesn't "listen", what do they have to listen to exactly? Biased opinions?.

Oh yeah? Prove it. What your bunch have done so far is make loads of wind and turn "in theory" into 100% certainty, how arrogant your bean win overdosed "testers", unicum badges flashers, "stats" ayatholas and followers can make you exactly? W.G says one thing your bunch another and you're RIGHT? LOL!. Get off my back i cant possibly take you seriously, nor does W.G. Where did i lie exactly? Saying that adding IFHE will increase the amoount of over pen? Where isis id SAY HE over pen in the first place? i didn't, i pointed out that adding a skill which make HE behave like AP will increase the amopunt of overpen and i'm quiet sure i'm right, copy/paste all you want.

Yeah so what? READ: "Might be that HE overpenetrations aren't actually part of the mechanics, though. Even if the above scenario happens, the game may not acknowledge it. As others pointed out, IFHE won't affect these mechanics, since there is no minimum armor thickness HE shells have to penetrate for fuse activation. However, it could be possible that IFHE affects shell fuse time and WG never mentioned it. In the end this is mostly theory, because WG has never officially explained the HE penetration mechanics in full detail". O_o oooops. As i said not only you're proven wrong again but your egotripping is showing red hot. It's a lot more precise than YOU saying it doesn't since over pen is not ruled out by W.G and more than possible despite your "expertise". So boy again bar trolling and pumping bean wind what did you prove?

Is that what i have writen? Sums up very well your level of intellectual Honnesty, twisted to knot. I think you got a real heavy chip on your shoulder and now we can see why W.G doesn't listen to your bunch of "testers" when they decide against your "expert" opinions... Who is crying? Me? [edited] I thought your bunch werwe supposed to have quit W.G after they introduced skills and changes you didn't want and then further saying you were a minotiry, see what your collective problem is, an ego so over inflated you think you are "everybody", well i got news for you, you're not. Get over it.

That's precisely what i said, giving the example of a thin deck and thin hull at a given X angle or through the bow, i believe that some videos shows some HE overpening although this doesn't occur very often. If you want all your hitting shells to explode, the last thing you need is to add IFHE to your Captain skills, on top of which you loose so much chances of fire which with a DD is so important, unless you only plan to hunt other DDs that is, because even with 100 mm and IFHE, you're not going to citadel much else, that's why i was proposing an alternative set up for this guy's commanders skills, with improved torps capabilities and chances of fire instead, making her more capable vs larger targets in regard of her high rate of fire and very good torps. ps the Akizuki Initial HE Shell Velocity is 1000 m./s

Really? Well this still remains "In theory" doesn't it? If it was so straightforward as you seems to believe it is, this would be added to the text explaning its mechanics in the first place, such as; H.E never overpen or HE doesn't overpen, leaving the theorically aside, but it is not the case, whoever wrote this clearly left the possibility of this occuring. Meaning in theory IFHE also has 30% more chances to overpen than HE, which was my point in the first place, how it would occur is not my problem, i don't need to be explained it time and time again, simply you keep puting all those fancy mechanic forward and forget to mention that it remains theorical as W.G says themselves and there is a good reason for that. Explain why they employ the phrase "Over-penetration is when a shell penetrates the ship through-and-through, before it has a chance to detonate inside the ship. Theoretically HE will never over-penetrate due to its low detonator threshold and shorter fuze" then? Now, back in the context of this argument, my point was (again) that on an IJN DD with such a rate of fire, IFHE wouldn't necessarily be the best option vs Demolition Expert giving 7% chances of fire and a 20 rpm fire rate, pointing out that in regard to the increse of 30% of armor penetration capacity of HE shells, it would also have more chances to overpen as it is designed to behave (pen) like an AP and overpenetration is not ruled out in the technical description given by W.G. Now, if you look at what they say about it: Exactly my point about the Akizuki as a reply in the form of an alternative point set up for the commander, i personally wouldn't loose 3% of chances of fire on a gun that fires 20 rounds a mn for IFHE, and something else, i tried it and BOTH skills together, there is a lot better combination than using IFHE on an IJN DD. For my complete argument on the subject, see here. http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/76170-akizuki-advice-needed-he-ap-ifhe/page__st__40__pid__1725283#entry1725283

Sorry, NO. You too jump to a conclusion W.G doesn't themselves, they say "IN THEORY", nowhere near as affirmative as you two and your interpretations of their computing of this mechanic. This means not covering 100% of the possibilities a player might encounter in this game, such as hiting a thin deck at a given X angle few cm from a thin hull armour, failing to fuse and going through both, like at the bow. This is the meaning behind the words "in theory", it doesn't mean nor does they say 100% certainty and since i was pointing out that IFHE 30% extra pen wasn't worh loosing 3% of chances of fire on an IJN DD, for cause of higher risks of overpen i don't see from this basis where the debate leads... READ: IFHE equals NOT HE. IFHE CAN overpen simply because it is designed to fuse after penetration. In Theory, again doesn't mean anything else, so everyone can come up with his own interpretation, i'll stick to what it says on the can, that's theorical, and since IFHE delays fusing, in some cases i dont see why it couldn't overpen.

Really? LOL! Because according to you, 7% chances of fire + 2% from Demolition Expert skill and her rate of fire doesn't cause damage? LOL So i havent seen all of you Camper's Paraside fan Club spamming HE on BBs.

You "corrected" zilth, mattey, since you do not inform people properly in the first place and goes from a theory about H.E to "fact" about IFHE, from my PoV you think much too highly of yourself and it shows. W.G never said H.E doesn't over-pen, they say "In theory" it doesn't, which is clear as crystal for everyone but you, and since IFHE increases pen power by 30%, chances of overpen on thin cans incereases just as well, which of course you tried to deny by twisting W.G comments on the amunition, must be why you and your buddies didn't weight that much when it came to all the new stuff they introduced and your bunch didn't want them to. Get over it.

Purple, Unicum, the colour i got on a good day, like today for my personal rating, although i struggle with win rate and damage. When it comes to having bad days, i know what you're talking about since they were the majority of my days (and still are depending on the ship i play) and of course are not related to using cheats. It's purely about conjectural variation and the way such freak events occurs, sometimes i wonder HOW a ship would delete me in one salvo when i'm undetected or how my shells seems to cause no damage even when fired at point blank range but in WoW those doesn't seem to occur as often and systematically than in WoT, which is the primary reason why i vaccated over here, the game was so rotten with cheats it fast became unplayable at some point.

The DD turned away to go around the island after i chased the ennemy DD which was chewing him up and torped the Cl on the left of it, i didn't have much choice but to go forward trying to avoid return fire and conceal myself from the BB, which is why i would have apreciated our supporting BB not to turn away just when we made contact, the Cl was charging me thinking my tV didn't have a sting, we both killed each other, i took a torp because i was too slow, he got my shells full broadside. Not USA DD of the same tier no. Mahan are good with guns but only very marginally and in long engagement from mid to close range could they beat me in a gunfight, best tactic is to turn away and use the two back turrets to chew them up, it end up more often than not to my advantage, the Akatsuki guns are slower to reload but are a lot more precise, have a higher velocity and deal the same amount of damage for 2% extra chances of fire, pretty much the same with the Benson btw. More likely Russian and Germans which have far better guns than the US DDs, easier to use with high shell velocity, tier for tier, they are the best in a gunfight, but they have cr@p torps, thus, they are limited to hunt other DDs and offer some fire support vs larger ships but you sure aren't going to create avoc in the ennemy team with their torps unless you're lucky enough to bump into a cluster of target still undetected, which is not going to happen often, and i dont rely on luck. What's odd an idea to you exactly? The full blown role of a DD? Like "scout out enemy positions, provide support — either with a Smoke Screen or as a distraction — and/or perform precise strikes on individual targets"? That's W.G exact description of their role, it doesn't say precise strike on other DDs and Cruisers, which, except when camping in their smoke are those avoiding torps the most easily, and considering the amount of ships i kill by torps (Akatsuki: 380 vs 358), i don't see why i should "specialise" myself in hunting other DDs, which is pretty much all i can do playing my T-22, Gnevny, Mahan, Fletcher etc, anything with less than a 10km range torp set and getting worse with higher tier. In fact not only i spot them for my team, often kill them myself either with guns or torps when they make the mistake to pop smoke and camp on it, which goes for all ships camping in smoke bubbles at torps range btw, i also spend a huge amount of time spotting and keeping targets spotted for my team while my torps reloads, even when they don't fire or are out of detection range when they do fire, and finishing targets i already hit or other with gun fire. So a good ballance is from my PoV a lot better than a vastly superior capability which is relative (always can be defeated with support fire for example, when not good tactics), when the rest of the ship weaponry is nearly useless otherwise. In terms of kill/death average ratio as well as win rate, a Shiratsuyu is in front of the Leningrad and Błyskawica at tVII, I guess it's not because of her guns capabilities, on the other hands the two others are not up there for their torps... The place and time for smoke fire is when i'm not in your game playing an IJN DD at torp range... http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/9009-what-were-your-greatest-gaming-achievements-today/page__st__4360__pid__1738059#entry1738059 http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/74023-what-to-do-in-this-situation/page__st__20__pid__1670992#entry1670992

LOL! Thats sounds like pure frustration Mr Alpha tester, because i'm not the one pulling ranks and stats to force an opinion on others when W.G introduces a change, YOU are and W.G doesn't care, and you're NOT every one. On the other hand they might well give a little boost to the survivability of those you spam with H.E with your great invisifiring "skills".

Good news, i hope they come up with something proper because as it was, they looked like a poor addition to the French line.

Camping in smoke is 90% stoopid/10% useful, the number of times i see one of ours poping smoke and starting to "invisifire" while i maneuver to torp and keep spotting for the rest of the team, only to see torps coming and headbuting the unfortunate DD/Cl this way, i do not keep track. The only time one can safely use smoke is that when there aren't any IJN DDs around, especially those equpied with the Torpedo Reload Booster modification, i kill enough campers in their smoke bubbles using 3 torps less per salvo than an Akizuki, that's 12 of them, and if you're stationary in your smoke good luck avoiding 12 torps maneuvring, plus i did learn it the hard way myself. If i am unfortunate enough to make a serie of mistales and find myself in my smoke bubble, it's 75% chances of getting torped or radar located which is worse because everyone in range will start firing at you. So, using concealment, yes, smoke, nope, better spend it in shielding a team mate in trouble or trail-hide my escape route, in any case, you can't spot anything from inside the smoke, you're as good as blind, so the best ways to stop invisifiring from smoke are 1) torp it, 2) use radar or Hydro, Detect the spotter and kill it or designate it as priority target, which is the role of a DD.

LOL! I'm not alone after all. Yeah, invisifiring anyway requiers a lot less skills, in particular due to the fact that those guys more often than not also spam H.E on their target and "melt it", meaning they do not need to put as many shells on it to cause damages, all you need is rate of fire and high chances of fire on top, you wont get many citadels camping but fires, oh boy... They will come back at you saying that Fire Prevention reduces that and that it was the faut of BB and Russian players complaining about it, but BBs are NOT the main victims of this spaming, lower HP Cruisers with no access to Repair Party would die real fast under HE spamming, even so it doesn't show in any chart, fire might not being the main cause for the kills, H.E is the most used and cause of those kills due to spamming of this amunition after melting of a target by fire. As for myself i have my best results with a ship that never had invisifiring capabilities, don't camp on my smoke 99.99% of the time and still manage to get gun kills with a ship which guns aren't the forte, so all this noise about the "skills" needed to invisifire is looking as much bean wind and i think it is a good thing W.G finaly decided to reduce the opportunities to use this play style, it was imposed on everyone else by a minority and promoted camping. No less.

A very good touch is the possibility to transfer Captain XP from a top ranked one to another, it allows nursing them way faster than previously without having to transfer them from ship to ship, at the moment i nurse my Kagero Captain using my Akatsuki Captain points. Not only i learn how to use the tVIII, but i can beneficiate from the XP points from the previous, it makes the transition easier.

I don't think looking at them that i will research much of the French Cruisers, i'll stick to La Galissonniere. I don't need a port full of ships i don't like to play, made this mistake with the USN lines of DD and BBs, it's not going to happen again, all i need is a good ship per tier and La Galissonniere seems to be a good candidate.

Not hard to figure out considering how loud you were/are when Fire Prevention and update on Detectability range after firing came out, plus your best result is obtained on one of these, i wish you to camp in your little cocoon in a game where i play a DD. quoted post removed [edited]

I guarany you that if you train your eye instead of asking your brain to conpute numbers you barely take notice of when the playing get hot, you will fast forget your issue with aiming at maneuvring targets if you have any. They don't need to, the game client anticheat can "tell" the server if there is any form of cheat installed, simply because as opposed to what some might want us to believe, cheats have to have at least part of themselves in the client client forlder, if not all depending on their complexity, to interfer with the files. They will in any case need the address of the folders, that's where this little piece of policing software can detect them, not within your all PC and technically it's no more of an intrusive program than an antivirus plus it legaly remains W.G property. You got this one in reverse mode, when you use a legal mod, it works until the next update, then when it doesn't it takes time to adapt back to the original game, and for mod developers to write a new release, so your stats (my case anyway when using OMC ModPack in WoT) were naturally affected by the updates, not by getting better but worsening with them.

I'm afraid it won't be enough, even so played, the Kirov comes only 4th in her tier for the kill/death ratio despite her excellent gunnery, i don't think it's because her players doesn't know how to use it, but more that she is killed much too easily, just lile the Konigsberg and for the same reasons, although the Kon fares better in nearly all aspects. By designing a sniper with a paper armour, W.G have stocked them firmly in this role and more to it, in this rank, unless you play newbies in all your games you're never going to top the chart with one of those ships.

It's not what W.G officials posting this thread and the weird inststence of some to try to deny their existence in all forums where people can mention them suggest, does it? Again, you can't know when people are using cheats, now, if you search well for evidence of their existence there are plenty of them online, but you CANT prove it on your own unless you really want to, that is by getting one yourself and recording a video on how to use them and how they work, as some guys have done in both WoT and this game. Plus again, i have said previously that myself had no evidences, basically not have been trying to get one, and thaught that they were unnecessary in this game because we have all the tools we need to perform well as it is. Having said that, some variation patterns in the performances of some might suggest that they might use cheats if not legal mods, simply because they occur when a major update messes with them. I should know, this is exactly what happened to me when using the legal OMC ModPack in WoT, simply because you get use to a set up and once a sudden have to re-adapt to the original one, which is not always straightforward, in the case of an illegal mod the difference will be even more noticeable because of the advantage that the cheaters would get by using them.

I got my best results with them, it's a question of chosing a ship you can get on with and which allows you to develop the playstyle you want, then gear her up with mods and captain skills. Originally I was very focused on the USN DD line mainly for the aura of their achievements during WWII, i wanted a Fletcher at all cost but guess what? I hate the Fletcher as much as i hated the Atlanta, and personally i hate even the idea of using a radar on a DD. So instead i decided to focuse on learning how to use the Kagero properly, but as far as i'm concerned, it's the end of my love affair with USN DDs or anything remotely geared up as bias gunship... IJN DDs are good. And since it's the right topic, MORE BBs = MORE targets.