ThinderChief

Sure, so you're going to increase shell damage and initial velocity parameters with upgrades then? LOL. They both have access to the same upgrades so i don't see your point, bar confusion.

Really? So acording to you, from stock figures before upgrades... Konigsberg:... Firing Range 14.99 km. Maximum AP Shell Damage 3,900. Initial shell velocity: 960m/s Emerald:........ Firing Range 12.38 km. Maximum AP Shell Damage 3,000. Initial shell velocity: 936m/s With both 8rpm, a difference of 17.41% in Firing range and 50% in damage for AP only is not a weakness then? The only parameters where the Emerald is marginaly better is dispertion with 126m vs 136m and HE damage with 1.500 vs 1.100 but even her chances of fire is lower by 1% and her HE shells slower by 88m/s, so i dont know what you've been killing with your Emerald and how but i guess it's a lot less citadels vs anything bigger than DDs or while smoke firing vs slow BBs... You have a knack for redefining the Oxford definitions of the words, that's one thing, and something else, when i said i sold mine it's not a joke, weak guns is exactly what i meant and what it is, the Kon in comparison will citadel everything showing broadside at any range and set fire just as well as the Emerald, only her shells will hit more often despite the dispertion because they have a much better ark and higher velocity, this makes them more precise. In tV, kill/death ratio, Koningsberg comes second, Emerald 8th.

Smoke and shoot from smoke isn't doing anything good for the game dynamic, i have no problems with the number of BB, what i have a problem with is some of the BB secondaries and the fact that they don't play like BBs but "supercruisers" or Battle Cruisers, at least we know Dunkerque is one but she doesn't have torps and her secondaries are limited to 7.2 km at best. Simple, they don't have the hooomph against other battleships and as you mentioned her, Bismark will chew up a DD faster than two ennemy DDs with her secondaries only, so stealth is a must, remains the question of how stealhty your torps are or how fast or both. IJN Dds have it hard, not only the number of hurdles for coming to firing range increased but also their torps capabilities didn't, don't mention gunery, especially when mm is throwing tIX at you playing a tVII, a Bismak will easily avoid torps but it's a TVIII, so within this mismatch, unless torps are way faster than those i have on my Akatsuki, either that or detectability range lower, this capability should bebuffed for IJN torps if W.G wants to see us keeping at it. Or else it will resume in pussy-footing and wait more for opportunities than playing aggressive, or worse, everyone is going to swap to Russian gunboats and smoke fire, there i'll fast loose interrest.

That's the general idea... BUT. I play the Akatsuki which never had invisifiring capabilities, since once the Fire Control upgrade mounted the detectability range after firing is the same than max firing range i got used playing this way, i still killed 270 vs 406 with guns with a hit ratio of 40.56 % (todays stats for her), but i never understood what was all that fuss about untill i had to deal with some specialists in "baby seal clubing" coming with the new generation of destroyers. First the Germans then the Russian, those guys chose ships with mediocre torp capabilities but overwhelming superiority in gunery for the sole purpose of hunting other DDs, that's pervertion No1 of the original role of the DD. Then they spend their time relying on other ships to spot for them when invisifiring from inside their smoke bubble, meaning they do not spot for this all time and can very well miss targets the rest of the team doesn't see for them, that's pervertion of the DDs original role No2. This playstyle is based on farming XP as easily as possible, it doesn't mean better scores for the teams, but it also mean that it makes the game more static, and that they also give away the possibility for carry out strike on BBs using torps at longer range, area interdiction etc. For as long as W.G gives players the possibility to depart from the originally intended play style and roles of ships you'll always have guys such as these who think in terms of XP instead of team play, in fact. a good solution to that would be to reward team efforts more than individual performances, starting by a scale of XP gains based on what players kills by types, not damage in itself, it's way too easy to feed on the most vulnerable and ignore more important targets. Hunting DDs with lower gun capabilities with a suprrior gunboat or even a Bismark like some does isn't doing anything good for the game. I totally disagree, it depends on which ship you chosed to play, many of the IJN DDs have great torps and i kill more ships with them than with guns, the only difference is that you won't be hunting DDs or even Cls with torps, reason why i still manage a lot of gun kills, but on BBs, and it's 6.14 % hit ratio on my favourite, more than enough considering the damage they cause when they hit, a good salvo will delete anything she encounters in the game. Obiously, if you play a USN, German, Russian DD or else you will always have more trouble carrying torp strikes because they are not so hot with them, until higher tiers for some, so people chose the ship they want for a purpose, myself i hunt DDs and smoke-loving campers whatever type, i don't go after the easiest or weakest, but you need good torps for that and proper gunnery too, the best ballance you can get, Akatsuki has that. Wait for the French line of DDs, looking at the stats of the torps which are mounted of the Cruisers, we might well end up with much more ballanced DD capabilities and play style than we had lately with all those gunboats.

Is that the ones i keep torping in their smoke cocoons and have weak guns? Guess why i sold all my RN Cruisers? Nah, i far prefer a ship that at least have better guns, even a glass-armoured one, and at tV, those (from my PoV) are the Kirov, the Konigsberg and the Furutaka, the last one being the most underated but have the best guns of all, it's a citadel specialist in fact, only i'm not that good with Cls and BBs, the less a ship behaves like a DD, the lesss i can play them, to me it's all about maneuvrability and gunery, that's what let me play my game. I had a few games with the Konigsberg where the rest of the team played the kind of aggressive and mobile game which suits me, we snowballed the other team, outmaneuvred them, i scored citadels after citadels on guys who never shot anything esle then HE and coulrn't maneuver their ships or simply were trying to run away, that's what you got for practising camping and HE spamming from behind islands all the time. So if the French tV is anything tankier than the Kon and have as good guns i should logically get better results with her. Arffff, was too good to be true, but 12 seconds is not too bad, i had some succes with the Furutaka and she reloads in 15. Thanks for the info, i'll test them in the PT.

Yeah? Really? What's so amazing mentioning their lack of armour, if it was not for your compulsive tendency to be spamming my posts with controvertial comments you'll have got it first time, my best results and highest kill with Cruisers is with the Kon, i also played the Kirov for the same reason as i mention the French ship, gunnery, reason why i know them well. Those French ship lacks armour, but apparently in her tier, the Emile Bertin have more chances to bounce AP than the Kon or the Kirov, reason why i plan to gring her. Savvy? Try Zen. Have they nerfed them or is it an assumption?

There is a good ship on every line depending on the tier, the French tV doesn't look bad at all if you played the Konigsberg or Kirov...

That's how one could call this ship, together with a few on the Russian Cruisers i played before i got her. So why do i keep playing her would you ask? Well it's simple, her guns are just fan-[edited]-tastic to say the least and i'm a gunner at heart. So i kept insisting into going to battle with her and keept being deleted by BBs (XP farming cowards) who know the ship reputation and prefer to waste a salvo on a potantial easy kill than taking care of the other BBs even if they are in range, [edited] One of my friends in WoT (does he have any? Yes i do) suggested that i use Magazine Modification 1 instead of the usual Main Armament Modification 1, so i did, it cost me a few doublons, but after a game where, as usual the usual baby seal clubing Fuso tried and failed to do his usual K-Boom trick, i can confirm it works, my turests are now more vulnerable, but i don't go bang as it happened so many time before. 1 Now remains the issue of WHY did W.G design a ship that is so easily detonated in the first place? Is it OK or will we see a little change in the future, because this is just preventing the full enjoyment of the experience of playing Konigsberg, not that she is overpowered, she doesn't have smoke, or her torps aren't even as strong as that of an emerald (13,700HP/64kt vs 15,733HP/59kt), so why, W.G did you make of her a darn floating can of nitroglycerin which btw also burns like a barn? Since my stats are not my primary concern and that i still have to learn to play her properly, i will keep at it, but from my humble PoV, she is part (with the Kirov i think) of those ships which needs a little buff on their survivability to be fully playable.

Edited. This post has been edited by the moderation team due to insult

Get out my topic, the day i need an opinion i am certainly not going to ask a flame thrower like you, and dont forget to get an appointment to fix your egotriping as well. Something looking remotely like an opponnent had a chance? If you're up for baby seal clubing dont ask me what i think of you, you would be reporting my comments pretty soon.

An equalizer? No seriously, you can see BBs from one side of the map to the other one, on the other hand i could be <640m from you, you wouldn't detect me on some DDs, it's a question of ballance, for as long as you have a buffer where to maneuver for a torp strike i'm more than OK with that, on top of which it is precisely what makes playing a DD interresting, if you could fire everything without being detected at all time where would be the challenge? I think there is, if the DD is dumb enough to pop smoke and camp on it, you torp him, other than that, i still manage to get 267 kills with guns vs 402 with torps, although this tends to change fast in favour of torps or getting deleted by Russian and German gunboats, very much in fashion those days, i spare you what i think of the players who chose to gear up a gunboat for the sole purpose of farming HP on other DDs with overwhelming gun superiority. Lately i faced Kiev or Z-23s with my Akatsuki, sometimes i managed to escape and even win but there is no question on who have got the advantage in a gunfight, still better than a Fletcher with radar if you are forced to pop smoke but not really by much, the only good thing is that my gunnery skills inproved because i need to in order to survive, but i wont buy or grind one of those for sure. Yerk playstyle and the mentality coming with it if you ask me. That would be my case and it is not necessarily a bad thing: Some DDs doesn't have the maneuvrability (acceleration, response to rudder input, turn rate) to get out of trouble if they are spotted on their smoke is torped, if on top of that your smoke doesn't last very long and the ennemy DD have strong torps, it's not a good idea to cap before the area is cleared. Better spot, get the ennemy DD under fire, force him to vaccate or pop smoke and camp on it, which means you can torp him, which is what would happen to you if you were in his boots.

Been struggling today, first with getting a victory with a serie of defeats despite reaching ther super-Unicum spot for personal ranking, funnily in games i managed to survive. Now it's better but i die more often. LOL!

Negative for you perhaps, but if people are camping it's mostly because they have been "educated" by an "elite" who specialised precisely in doing just that. What do you call hiding behind an island with the longest gun range, highest rate of fire and chances of fire possible to farm XP on anything that dares moving? A dynamic play style? Where do you think new players have learnt this stupid trick from? WG reacted to a trend that was advertised and promoted like a new religion by a minority, a false elite, a minority who in fact imposed it upon everyone else, simply because it kills the dynamic of the games. It's good for farming XP and brush up stats, not good for the game play, so time will tell but i'm quiet sure that W.G did take the right decision, since i never played that way and know damned well that; 1) where the problem come from 2) was well aware that a change was coming at us big time, 3) i have no issue with the whole shoobang and even think it's a lot of bean noises for nothing. So you guys write this page an go over it, adapting is what people does when they are good enough.

I play both IJN and USN up to tVIII and tIX, the problem of USN BBs is that they are not equpied with torps strong enough to pose a real threat for BBs, plus for the same tier, even with a higher rate of fire, their gunnery is not that better than the Japanese gunboats which have far better torps. This is why you see an increase of Russian and German DD geared up to kill other DDs, they don't want to go after the biggest guns of the game, having to pass through the DDs and Cls other than invisifiring at the first opportunity, it's way simpler to over-gun another DD, not mentioning concealment, maneuvrability and health pool. The DD i play never had invisifiring capabilities, her max detectability distance was always the same as that of max gun range once the gun Fire Control system mod 2 is mounted, you learn to play that way. It's not a problem, the issue is that players have chosen their ships, geared them up with upgrades and commanders skills for a purpose and that from the time invisifiring became an issue (not only for BB players), and that W.G started to say they wanted to limit it, they didn't listen and consider an alternative. Like playing DDs with their full role capabilities, meaning good torps. If you want to spam HE at BBs (i dont think you limit yourself to BBs but i wont make an assumption here), or do some baby seal clubing hunting other DDs fine, but play a USN DD, you have the wrong line of DDs for gunnery and wrong line for torps as well, from my PoV, with the arrival of the Russian and some Germans, the USN line became average in their capabilities unless you get radar on them but i wont even consider using one of a DD. From where i stand it's the end of my relationship with USN DDs, and i won't touch a Russian or German passed tVI, i really dont like the way they are played, the state of mind it involves revulses me.

Get off my back, the day i need an opinion i wont be asking yours, plus i dont like your avatar. What's your problem, you dont have enough dosh to buy yourself a Belfast? Because learning is something hilarious is it? Reading your bunches endless whining it doesn't appears to be the case, once again we see the invisifiring specialists, HE spammers and all those who doesn't like to be fired back at (LOL) accusing BB players (strange, for once the Russian are left off the hoock, might not las for long). From my PoV W.G reballancing this game and taking it out of the hand of a false elite trying to impose it on everyone else to better be able to do their baby seal clubing thing is totally what they should have done a long time ago. GOOD.

Agreed, and the worst thing is that it's not only the Bb which are spammed this way, of course spammers will deny... It's torps fest for me, if you're dumb enough to camp in your smoke coccon you're as good as D.E.A.D from my PoV.

I can't blame myself for fault of trying harder but some days wins just doesn't come that easy, the only consolation here, being that i survived all battles so far and scored kills in all of them too...

To kill other DDs, that's lack of ambition, guts and team spirit from my PoV, like some geezer in one of my last game with the Akatsuki who sole idea playing a Kiev was to hunt our CV on Neighbours (what a fate) supported by two equally courageous Cls with half of their team on the C cap where the ywere coming from, when i took him on on my own he first RAN, with a gunboat one tier higher and overwelming superiority in gunnery, says a lot about the guy. I got killed defending the CV, 3 vs one (dont expect the CV to gun them back), then told them in no uncertain terms what i thaught of them, LOL! Their reaction, like i was blaming anyone, nope, it was telling them what i thaught they were playing like in very bad englsih, they didn't like it that much. I dont like cowardise, in the last Akatsuki game i torped and killed a Tirpitz trying to bully me when i got stocked in my own smoke bubble (a rare thing), i'm not going to run away from such geezers even if my survibility rate is low, i couldn't care less. For one thing, it seems that the more twisted and skeakier the mentality, the more success for some, this game allows itself to get corrupted this way, there isn't the slightest spirit of chevalry, guess why support is rare. btw We won and i got two more fair kills.

It's rare when i fail to sink a BB with a good torp salvo but this time it was more about Cruisers hiding in smoke and gunnery, for a guy who is not supposed to understand games mechanics... If i can keep this up, i might be able to go over the 50% win rate that's buys so many guys what they think is a form of credibility in expressing opinions in the forum, for sure i won't take for granted a badge flashed up my nose more than before, considering how doing things my way works for me anyway... My tip to the newbies here: Don't listen to those throwing your "bad stats" at your face like an insult, do things your way, think with YOUR brain. It's your game to play.

1) You adressed Zilth, those values are not that which are applied to shells which are classified in categories by velocity, as simple as that, hypervelocity in the case of shells starts just above 1000m/s, i forgot the precise figure but it's below 1100ms. 2) I don't need your "pretty well" fuzzy interpretation of a clear explaination for all to read. Thanks. 3) The bow is often narrower than 1m on Destroyers. 4) Considering short range + high velocity + balistic fligh and resulting drag, where does a 1000ms HE shell not be able to over pen? 5) Is that sort of cases exactly WHY W.G is not as afirmative as you mad scientists and stick to "theorically" to describe over pen probabilities on HE amunition? BUY A DAMNED OXFORD. You should try to get into politics, you'd be good at it.

Spin and twsit specialist. You're learning fast, guess why i avoid listening to your bunch as hard as i can. LOL! Man, it takes a lot to be like you and i'm making sure it doesn't affect me in any way any time soon.

Of couse. I can't comprehend the words Theorically. According to Oxford dictionary it means: 1 Concerned with or involving the theory of a subject or area of study rather than its practical application. 1.1 Based on or calculated through theory rather than experience or practice. Where exactly does it says 100% demonstrated/guaranteed or certainty? Nowhere, but it doesn't stop your bunch coming up with all this usual B.S lecturing the rest of us on how you know better and how little we comprehend what is written, sorry your status of testers and unicum doesn't guaranty you anything especially knowing more than what is writen by W.G on subjects such as this one. Allow me to laugh. LOL. How do i need to emulate your bunch exacly? Dont take your case for a world standard.

I didn't say it was hyperveloce but that it was closer to hypervelocity in terms of speed expressed in ms. That's one thing, so let's sum it up: You keep making a certainty of an entirely theorical assumption. Theoretically HE will never over-penetrate due to its low detonator threshold and shorter fuze doesn't mean NEVER. You keep ignoring FACTS such as what W.G themselves says about HE penetration in the first place. You bring up data on drag (LOL!) and how a shell will slow down due to drag, as far as i know in a gun fight way from its max range, this shell might just as well be closer to its pick velocity that at the lowest point when it hits, a simple look at a drag shart for supersonic objects will demonstrate this, high mach/low drag object looses their velocity slowly, meaning their critical mach is high. [edited]

quoted post removed Eh boy, no need for maths, you were WRONG on the subject of DRAG in the first place, COPY? So before lecturing people, make your you got your FACTS right in the first place, as i said i played with the real thing you were not born, this is a computer game i serves as weapon specialist. No offense meant. The game doesn't work the way you say it does, for proof i take your interpretatino of the word "theorically" like the rest of it in pmlain English, you comprehend everything but what it says. THIS i understand perfectly. So this guy might have goten his ocmputatino wrong, fuse might a 1ms treshehold, he still have a point and your bunch keep coming with pseudo-knowledgeable stuff to make a false point.

What's i'm taking comment from is you talking about drag, for your info, your shell keeps accelerating after leaving the gun muzzle for a short period of time, then aerodynamics means it slows down, but there is no way a high velocity shell will loose as much as you claim because it will stay way out of the critical mach zone which might not be the case for heavy, large shells with much slower initial muzzle velocity, this is where the drag picks for your info, not the case for shells with this sort of velocity, their issue is not so much drag as ballistic characteristics. So don't bring drag in the equasion on shells of this caliber and muzzle velocity it just doesn't work that way, that's basic physics for you. I explain briefly as simply as possible, Critical mach is the zone at which an object aerodynamic characteristics start to results on drag wave, starting at the front and ending at the tail as it accelerates, the object in not supersonic as long as it have not left those shock waves behind, THIS is what causes slow shells to slow down and it doesn't occur on 1000 ms shells.