_HomTanks_

Sure it has extra set of turrets but if you want to use them you need to turn pretty much broad side which will expose you too much and if it's not 1 vs 1 that broad side will be highly costly. Also Shima has more HP, better speed, better rudder, better detection range (which matters a lot since Shima can take the first volley and deal a good damage to Somers with its high alpha damage HE shells), yes in two torpedo set ups (12km and 8km) torps will have shorter range but higher alpha damage output (357K vs 215K), higher chance of flood (406% vs 301%) and higher dpm ((140K vs 99K). Though, my main point is still the worth of steel, and prefer not to get into the detailed ship comparisons.

Well, I didn't bring a Fujin or Kami but the enemy Kamikaze had the exact same conditions as my Minekaze, no radar, no CV. :)

In below ss, there is one torp built Somers and a nothing built Shima without a captain or module upgrades. You see the difference in HE shell damage? That melts Somers, not to mention Shima is a faster ship, but also will fire quicker and in a kiting position (as most of her guns are in the rear) she will have the advantage plus the big difference in fire chance and shell velocity and if you gun build a Shima, it will be fixing Gearings as well.

It is not that i don't enjoy Somers. I think it is just not worth 25K steel.

Shima is for free bro :)

I understand and still think 25K steel is too much for Somers (zero AA, loses gun battles to even a Shima and if you want a torp boat there are better or similar ones for free). Stalin is used extremely static in CBs due to the tactical game play. In Random you can always run her around to find broad sides in which it is good at punishing heavily. You may have to wait a little longer for Bourgogne, but I think it is the only ship in steel category that is worth of so much steel, not to mention you'd like it more than others since you're a BB main. FDR is overpriced but it seems like a team dependent CV that enjoys farming a lot which could be fun for its owner. Have no idea about how effective Plymouth can be and compared to which other ship(s) to make its steep steel price tag worth.

I'd suggest Stalingrad, Bourgogne or other steel ships if you have the 3-5K steel difference in spare. Somers is nothing special (not bad but not outstandingly worth of 25K steel tbh), I have it on my alt account. Also LWM thinks it's a meh boat;

What will you use your coupon for?

@Ronchabale Just played a Minekaze game on my alt account. Interestingly, there were Kamikaze and GC in the game, too. Clearly, one can see Minekaze does same or better what Kamikaze does. Also, the glorious GC player who ended up at the bottom of the scoreboard has 20K games with 49% WR which just supports our comments regarding it's the player that makes a ship work, not vice versa. However, note that he has better WR than the average WoWs player base (when you know it is around 47-48%) and more experience with ships than most. Yet, still he failed to play the ship to its max strengths. This again shows in the hands of a very good player GC could have ended up in a much better position at the score board. Shortly; A strong ship can be weak in the hands of a weak player and any ship can be OP in the hands of a good player (Minekaze must be OP since outperformed its counterpart and hence, be removed). On the other hand, if a bad or average player wants to exploit a real OP ship to the level OP, they need to git gud first. Straight logic, nothing complicated here.

Exactly. It's funny that all kami op arguments are coming from non-kami owners. Apparently they know the ship better than their owners. Well, I'm not sure if i should feel better because they are jealous or because we know the ships won't be removed from game although as i mentioned previously, WG can remove any prem ship from the game tomorrow as long as they refund my money back, and I'd be perfectly fine with it.

Current crate trick is more profitable.

Right, although they had better detect range 1.3km vs 1.6, they were slow and almost had the same reaction time 8.8sec vs 9sec. But nerf is a nerf and WG had to do something about Minekaze to stop BBabies from crying :)

Actually, after reading what you copied above, the big nerf still seems to be the one from 2015 when they stripped Minekaze off of its 10KM torps. The torp speed and damage reduction were nerfs that were made one year later in 2016 as a second wave of nerfs. Apparently, at the same time they tried to buff Minekaze a little by decreasing its torps and guns reload time but nerfs in general are not welcomed by the community anyway.

Minekaze nerfs were already announced in 01SEP2015 which was months before the Project R :) Link: https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/general-news/update-041-notes-downtime/

Kamikaze R Project R event was on January 2016. Maybe you mean Kamikaze? But i don't remember an event for Kamikaze, what was it?

@cherry2blost QUOTE "The Kamikaze is IDENTICAL to the original Minekaze, the Minekaze was over performing so got hit with NERF BAT... Kami trio were not included as they were premiums" IIRC Kami trios were introduced after Minekaze/Mutsuki nerfs (01SEP2015), Fujin was introduced in Halloween 2015. Minekaze and Mutsuki nerfs were; 1. "increased the traverse speed of the 120mm/45 guns from 4 degrees per second to 6 degrees per second" / negligible in this comparison 2. "the detection distance was increased by 0.3 km" 3. "increased detectability distance from 5.94 km to 6.2 km" / All tier 5 IJN DDs have 5.4KM max concealment as of today Minekaze only nerfs; 1. "excluded the Type89 torpedoes from researchable modules" / These are the slow 10km torps (so basically they brought Minekaze back to Kami sisters level of 7km torps) 2. "decreased the aiming angles of torpedo tubes"

3 Kamikaze sisters have 4,109,422 games in total not 4.5 million. 2 Silver line ships Minekaze and Mutsuki have 9,452,630 games which is more than double the amount of games Kami sisters have. Depends on the "other" premium ships.

What stats? If you mean the stats that were explained before in below links; I thought that it was cleared already. If not, let me try to explain very quick once again. All people who started playing IJN DDs since 2015 had to go through these silver ships Minekaze and Mutsuki. Including unicums everyone had to learn how to play IJN DDs with these ships first. Hence, these ships have much more amount of battles played and players in total compared Kamikaze sisters. In other words, it couldn't be more normal for premium ships to have better stats than these ships overall as almost all kamikaze owners had already learned how to play these ships before they brought their kamikazes into games vs new players/beginners playing IJN silver line tech tree DDs for the first time. I really hope you understand the point because i don't know how to make it any more clear (maybe someone else does) than this and than the given explanations in above posts i copied.

And same goes for the bad players. A bad player will not suddenly start doing very good in a ship because the name is kamikaze, nikolai or enterprise.

Minekaze has the same concealment and faster reload which make her a Terminator then? Actually torp range is a very important element. If Kami had 8km range instead of 7km then it would be op. Also knowing most tier 5 games have CVs, extra range for torps would feel like heavens. If a DD player knows what they are doing, they will land 66knot torps to ships as well. I still stand by what i wrote previously, that we are talking pretty much about good players that can utilize that 5knot torp speed difference and majority of players are not good to utilize it properly, to be specific. Also, those good players will have 70%+ wr in other ships as well. Should we consider those ships op too?

So you don't like the speed of Kami torps i understand. Mutsuki has 8km torps vs Kami 7km torps. If we bring Kami torp speed to Mutsuki level, it will have 63knots base torp speed vs 68knots. This 5knots difference practically wouldn't exits/matter for good players who are the ones taking advantage out of it anyway. But since we bring Kami to Mutsuki level, it means we will extend its torp range to 8km as well otherwise it would be an inferior ship. We kept the concealment at 5.4KM. We kept the torp reload same which is still slower than Minekaze by the way. Okay, now what we have is a Kamikaze with 8km torps, 63knots base torp speed with 5.4km ship concealment. Or we can keep the torp range at 7km which would give us a Kamikaze with 7km torps (inferior to Mutsuki), 63knots base torp speed (same as Mutsuki) and 5.4km ship concealment. Well, what is the purpose of having a Kamikaze at this point? Mutsuki has same or better parameters in almost all fields now including torp alpha damage. What WG said was premium ships do not necessarily have to be better than their counterparts but similar ships with different gimmicks. In Kamikaze case, its torps speed is the only thing separating her from the silver ships. Take the torp speed out of the equation as shown above, and it is a worse or same ship than its silver line sisters. It basically becomes inferior and hence serves no purpose as a premium ship anymore.

I agree that WG has been using these so called rare ships to squeeze money out of people but I fail to see how Kami would be balanced if it is not already balanced. If they nerf its torp damage or speed value then it will be inferior or equal to Minekaze, Mutsuki and other DDs in tier 5. If they nerf concealment again Minekaze will have better concealment. And it has nothing else better anyway while Minekaze still has faster torp reload.

Also, removing or nerfing premium ships is not fair to the owners of those ships. I was one of those opposed GC to be removed to T6 for instance. Not only because she would need major changes to withstand T8 shells and spam but also because people paid for it. Honestly, I couldn't care less if GC would be removed or nerfed along with kami sisters and all other premiums as long as i get refunded and get my money back.

I'd gift you one of kami sisters from my inventory if it was possible.

More so, removing that stealth fire suddenly changed Blsyka from a monster to a meh boat.