Karasu_Browarszky

If it's relatively harder to achieve OP/unicum level performance in the subs, what I would expect we will see only two kinds of players touching the subs. Those who are bloody hopeless but for reasons of their own don't care but just think the subs are cool and keep playing them nonetheless, and the experts who will use them to wreak havoc on the gameplay scoring multiple kills, outspotting the enemy, and wielding disproportionate influence on the battle results. Does that sound like any other class we have in the game? Sadly, yes, and this is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs. Don't remember what you've said on the topic previously, but yes this is true to the extent that there are ships that are OP in the right hands, but AFAIK the only other class that you can make such a claim about the class being OP in the right hands are the CV's. I feel that your point there benefited from this little clarification as to not give the somewhat false impression that the subs do not cause problems that the other classes would't be doing anyway. Thank me later.

Well, the game is not perfectly playable for me, but that's not the point I take it. The gameplay started to deteriorate seriously following the CV rework. The game's been on a downward trajectory ever since, the subs are just another symptom more, not the core issue which has to do with the fact that WG is either incapable developing this game along the lines it was being developed when the game was launched, or they have other priorities which relegate game development at the bottom of the stack. They're in for a quick buck and that's it. They are not interested in making money out of a good product, they are just interested in making money. I notice how deftly you completely ignored what @Bear__Necessities said about sub gameplay earlier. Do you find what he was saying as facts or feelings? I'm not talking about my 'feelings' here, I'm talking about how I am experiencing gameplay personally, and how other people perceive it and how they report it. These are observations, not feelings. They are observations based on facts about gameplay. I have never claimed the homing torps are impossible to dodge, people do it, I've done it, but not every time. A lot what's going on during the interaction depends on player skill, especially of the sub player, and circustances. My major point would be that it's ludicrous that BB's are more effective at submarine counterplay than DD's, and additionally the problem is that sub vs DD interaction compromises the DD, the hunter, more than the sub, the target, and this as plain wrong as it gets.

Part of the issue, as far as I understand it, is that your number 2 point is slightly erranous in the sense that the subs are overpowered, but only in the right hands. Otherwise, no arguments with your statement.

Well, yeah, but do you want the game to be playable only for the top 1 percent of the playerbase?

If you ignore what people who have played the subs, who do know the ins and outs of sub gameplay, their strengths and weaknesses relative to the other classes out there, and still maintain a heavily pro-sub agenda despite the fact that practically everyone who knows the gameplay mechanics from one or more point of view keep telling us that there are issues. You can ignore me, because I'm not one of those people, but I've played this game long enough to know that what they are saying correlates with the way I've experienced gameplay change and deteriorate following the introduction of the subs as a playable class.

I disagree, and here's why. Perspectively speaking, if we now can agree that it is not right and proper to blame players who have a higher than average WR for not winning the battle for the team, it is also not right and proper to blame the players whose WR is below average for losing the battle. There are many other variables at play.

I don't have any problems with people having opinions, or voicing them, but I do have issues with people having opinions which fly in the face of known facts. Should we nominate @Sunleader for the 'Flat Earther of the Year' award?

@Bear__Necessities Do you think our friend, yours and mine, @Sunleader is a voluminous writer but seems to have a spot of trouble when it comes to reading comprehension?

Let's hear from the 1% who have played those subs and know the gameplay.

I sense someone here ^^ would not approve.

Huh? They practically live below water level..

Ah... so competent players are nearly as good as the bots in the Defense of New Portholio? Also... Beware the dwarf at the party.

Well, like I said, they all must have learned English... or German. The game has never been better.... comrade.

DD vs sub counterplay.... .... I think I have it, next to LotR and Pool of Radiance.

I doubt the validity of your statement. All one needs is a hanko seal and a fax machine. Modern technology knows no limits!

The **** I care I know what I would say.

Yes, it's amazing what an excellent language learning tool WoWS is. All those players who many many years ago used their own language, have by now mastered English or German and made those other language forums redundant.

Maybe instead of actually fixing anything, we are more likely to see WG develop this into a special 'Fire Bug' camo that they can peddle to us for money.

But my aim is atrociously bad. Do I suffer disproportionately or do I gain an advantage?

Alaska is one of the few cruisers that plays a bit like a warship and not so much like a BBQ chef.

@Andrewbassg Right, let's also not forget the gentle art of cap denial.

Early cap gives an advantage, but I've been in battles where the team has got all three caps and still managed to lose the battle. We've talked about these things on a number of occasions. Cap if you can, don't cap if you feel that you risking your ship, especially without backup... make that effective backup. Also make sure you play by the situation and sink those red ships. Realising this, of course, is not the problem, putting all that into practice individually and on team level is.

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