Karasu_Browarszky

A rose by any other name... Yeah.. the terms this game and we use are sometimes open to interpretation, like the 'Torpedo acquisition' skill that has nothing to do with what it suggests. 'Floaty shells/arcs' sounds a pretty apt technical term, too, if you are talking about stuff like gun elevation and ballistic curves. It's hard to hit things that move if you are shooting them with feather pillows out there.

If I may be so bold as to suggest that OP seems to share many of my views how this game ought to be played. Memories are golden, but I often think that in 2015 the players in this game played this game way differently from what the battles now have to offer.

I grant you that the terms are open to interpretation. However, LWM made a specific mention of the 'arcs'. The original Tribal class firing arcs being acceptable for an arcade game, even though they deviated from the real life guns. I assume we could say they deviated in terms of their 'performance'. By 'performance' I understand it to refer to what you can do with the guns, not so much any single technical parameter of the guns themselves. I can't speak for LWM, but as I've been saying before, the firing arc is the single biggest factor that determines what sort of performance you can get out of the guns and the ship. IMO, more important than range or RoF. What I don't know is how many others will be disappointed by the Huron when it gets released. I have Haida, but I don't have any real expertise when it comes to playing it, it has remained a fairly marginal ship for me. I strongly suspect that I, personally, would enjoy the Huron with the better ballistic profile more. But then again. WG was not supposed to release the Huron to make me happy.

Well.. hiding seems to be the thing that many people choose as their tactic in this game. It's not the sort of game that I personally want to be playing, except when I'm playing for time cause I don't want to be the one who throws the battle for my team.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to hold yourself back when someone scratches at a raw nerve. Someone once said, don't recall who it was, when you write a letter, sit on it till the following day, read it again before even thinking of sending it. Quality advice.

Well, yes. But range and dispersion don't really have an impact on how to aim and lead your shots. What matters most is the ballistic curve, the firing arc we have, because it's the most relevant for the aiming part of the gameplay. It's also one for which we don't have any numerical data available while aiming, which complicates things. Moreover, there's something fishy about how it's implemented in the game. As memory serves me, I usually agree with what you are saying, but here I have to respectfully disagree.

I should revisit Skyrim, perhaps. Haven't been there since 2011... I was supposed to look for some dragon there, but it felt like chasing a wild goose...

Can you name some sister ships whose guns have clearly differing ballistic performance? Uhm... am I supposed to be upset about LWM's words or about what WG has done with the Huron? It's clear she has a toxic relationship with the developers, and for a good reason, I think. If the Huron was supposed to a good will gesture by WG, how did they manage to turn it into an insult? This isn't about how strong or weak the Huron is, I personally expect it to be stronger due to the changes that WG has made... .. but that isn't the point (of the finger). It's the fact that they have not only deviated from what they originally chose to base the Tribal class 'approximation' on in the game, and altered the ballistics of a pre-existing gun in the game. ^ This.

I have a surprisingly lot of time for other games these days...

Never mind the post, then, but what about what they are doing with the Huron? Nothing there that bothers you in any way? Mind you, I expect it will make the Huron a better ship, but that's not the point here, or at least it's not the point we've been discussing for ... up to 9 pages now.

You can always trust WG to ruin a good thing as soon as they get their hands on it, but I'm actually rather interested, especially the BB only part, but will check out the others as well. It's a welcome change.

The Oklahoma camo settings are under 'Special ships' > 'Decorative' toggle.

Hard to say, you'd have to compare those values against the original project designs to see if that is the case or not. In any case, neither of them is a real ship that was constructed, so it's all pretty much fantasy. Whereas the Tribal class isn't. Still waiting for someone to say either way if the Haida vs the Huron guns can both be 'roughly' the same as their historical counterparts, or not.

Saying 'roughly' is the same as that 'close approximation'. In LWM's view, then, I take it that the Huron as it currently is fails this 'close approximation' isthmus test.

You can quite easily have two different 'close approximations to armour values', since neither of them is entirely correct. The argument here is not about armor, anyway. It's the guns that are the sticking point. If you go buy this analogy, the question is then: Comparing the Haida guns (as being representative of the Tribal class DD) vs the Huron guns; can these two differing implementations be both considered to be 'close approximations of the historical Tribal class guns', and if so, why is that the case, or if it isn't so, what is wrong with them?

I'm back! Reposting some of it. Including some of the juicy bits, that is to say. Sour tasting, though. As I understand it, the 'fudged' ballistics weren't really great (I agree they suck... bells, was it?), but apparently they still would have felt 'truer' to the historically correct performance. What we know so far, makes the Huron some kind of a 'fudged' Soviet gunboat. Not quite there, but not here either.

I'll pack some snacks and go have a look.

These, however, are exactly the sort of differences I think many would feel would have been okay to make. The Hipper, on the other hand, is a tech tree ship, so it's perfectly fine for it to be the slightly better one of the two.

Well.. that's a little different, at least as far as I'm concerned. The Yamato guns were, and should have remained the biggest guns in the game. I've never understood the complaints about getting copy paste ships, no I really have not. It's not like they take the place of some other, more glorious, or inglorious ship. It would be a selection for someone who's found that the class offers something in terms of game play they really enjoy. Especially, if there are game modes where they can make more efficient use of them. Moreove, if the Haida is not available, why not give us the Huron in it's place? Just address whatever was wrong with the Haida, and release the ship as such. I don't recall her exact words, were they 'implemented' or 'balanced', but she seems to disagree that the ship is not being implemented as a Tribal class DD which is the point. LWM can best answer for herself exactly in what ways does the Huron fail to be a Tribal class DD. As for the torps vs guns dilemma, I'd go the route which do you consider as the main weapons for this DD. The main weapon is like the more sensitive area here, figuratively speaking, of course. A good point. There is no consistency there. However, the main guns on the Alabama and the Massachusetts have pretty similar stats. Tim the Tinkerer and his friend Dodgy Duke did not work on those ships, unlike on the Huron. Wait a minute.. I'd recognize that ugly mug anywhere. It's my old nemesis, comrade Captain Fukov.

So.. it's not the real Huron, nor a Tribal class DD. It's a... Soviet spy ship in disguise?

1. I've never objected to having copy paste ships. I don't need to get them all, but I can pick the one that suits the nation, my wallet, or any other consideration. If someone really really likes the Tribal class DD's, I don't see any reason why WG should not provide them with a selection of them. It's not like it should take a major effort on WG's part, unless they do something no one, as far as I know, either requested or expected them to do. I'd say this is due to divine intervention, except I doubt very much there is anything remotely divine about it. 2. Uhu.. 3. Okay... points 2 and 3, why not just make it fundamentally the same and make the differences so small they will fit in like a well oiled glove. I know that's a bloody awful analogy, but it's all I could think of at a moment's notice. Yeah well.. I like my apples and oranges as they are, apples and oranges. I don't want something different like an apple made up to look like an orange, or an orange that's supposed to be an apple. So.. if it's about diversity, I'd like to see some new fruit on offer. Yeah... something along those lines might have been a lot better way to go about it. That I think makes sense. It would make great sense, but why not use this option on some other ship class instead of the Tribal class? Previously I've said myself, that this version would probably outperform the Haida, at least as far as I'm considered if we have a roughly accurate idea of in what shape they intend to release it.

Okay... I'm rather dubious in general about the armor schemes WG uses... but overall Hipper and Prinz Eugen play pretty similar, IIRC. That is to say, at least I would play them pretty much the same way. Albeit my way is mostly a very disastrous way of playing them, perhaps, but nonetheless it is the same. Then again, I'd play most cruisers the same way as well, have to admit that much. Diversity, however... I disagree here because if you want diversity in the first place, you wouldn't implement an x number of DD's from the same class of ships. You'd be implementing different classes of DD's, different nations... so it's not about diversity, it's about cutting costs, I think. You want to know how many Myoko's I have in port? However, I don't mind, because they are all the same class.

Uhm.. yes I get what you are saying. Still, the idea makes me uncomfortable, though there are cases where the guns differ clearly between alleged sister ships, like the Moskva and the Slava. Those, however, are not real ships that have existed, nor do they have a service history and nor are they part of any nation's naval traditions. However, what's the motivation behind this deviation from the other Tribal class DD's in the game? I get the awkward feeling that what WG has been looking for is a selling point. I know know.. it's entirely possible to get this ship for free, but what about after the event is over? Is this ship going to turn into something that is very desirable, and are the guns going to have something to do with that, performancewise in the game.

Perhaps this mode should be called ping pong and not brawl?

An excellent question. Let's see... https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Ship_class And what is a Tribal class destroyer? https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Tribal-class_destroyer_(1936)