Trainspite

Having them at tier 7 relies more on the ship having no consumables to augment it, having just a base ship with meh soft stats. It can work as a bully of a ship, though definitely still strong.

The RNZN did only ever operate a handful of cruisers anyway, so only a couple (or even just one) would make it into any prospective commonwealth tree. Adelaide needs a lot of buffs to manage at tier 4. AMCs are not in game if ever, so using one of the Australian Town class seems more ideal for tier 2. Monowai is in the same realm as ships like Kormoran or Alcantra. To me, not really. Given that the RN was the biggest navy in the world until around 1944, the RN should have a lot more classes and lines than other nations. It is possible to push out 3 BB lines, 2 CV lines, 2.5 DD lines, and 3 CL/CA lines composed of predominantly real ships. And that is not counting the potential premiums, which amounts to a lot. The spare classes can be premiums. Making ships exclusively commonwealth is like saying that there are too many German tier 6 cruisers, hence Nurnberg will only appear in game as Admiral Makarov in the soviet tree, as an example. Or that there are too many USN tier 8 DD candidates, hence Benson will only ever appear as Lo Yang for Pan-Asia. It kind of whitewashes over the ships predominant user. E.g. - R class Battleship. The soviets only used 1, the Royal Sovereign for a limited time, so having the R class exclusively in the soviet tree is undesirable. The same logic applies to HMAS Australia & Indefatigable. The RN used 2, Indefatigable & NZ, while Aussie was Aussie. I'm not saying the ships should be RN only, but the RN should take more importance over them. It doesn't stop commonwealth ships appearing, Haida is a very likely premium afterall. But keeping RN ships out of the RN in game because the RN has too many is not suitable. The 4x 2 102mm (4") is a decent weapon in game, and 8 of them is no disadvantage, hence those two RCN tribals would also make decent Tier 7 premiums alongside Haida.

Also, if we apply the same logic of KGV being tier 7 to HMS Daring, the prospective tier 10 RN DD ends up being tier 9. Unless someone can correct me, Daring's 114mm HE can't overmatch 19mm of armour (Needs to be above 19mm, Daring sits exactly on the 19mm mark), which is prevalent on the hulls of existing DDs. Being equivalent to a Gearing in most aspects, Daring is shafted by the overmatch, so should Daring be a tier 9 or 8 because it has smaller guns and is shafted by the game in some aspects? The above would involve sacrificing one of only a handfull of tech tree made up of purely real ships (others being USN CVs, IJN DDs etc.) on the altar of, "well, we don't think it fits, because game". It is something to think about. The way that I seem to be harvesting likes in this thread by the bucket-full, possibly it is time to poke the Devs, eh Tuccy? *poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke*

Nah, I think V is a good fit for the Bellona sub-class. - Yes, however HMS Black Swan is also a sloop. USS Erie is a gunboat. Tier 1 is the region of gunboats and sloops and possibly a few frigates even though they are shown as cruisers in game. Hence Prince David is in good company at tier 1. - Eh, you did not quite understand my point. What I am saying is that while Leander as a ship was crewed by New Zealanders throughout the war, she is the lead of the class, the Leander class, which is a significant RN class, having had possession of 7 of the class, building the 8th, and operating them throughout the war. Therefore, the class (and therefore name Leander) should be used in the RN tree, not the commonwealth one. In effect, the RN takes priority for the ship as she represents the class. Even if Leander herself had a more active war career with the RNZN. Achilles as an individual works since she doesn't clash with the RN Leander class. Achilles would also make more sense from a commonwealth point of view, as she was loaned out first, and is a bit more famous. I am also generally opposed to completely siphoning classes of ships off the RN for exclusivity to the Commonwealth. While it might give the Commonwealth ships a bit more selling power, I don't really like that it detracts from the RN. For example, if HMAS Australia (the BC) appeared in game, I would want an HMS Indefatigable to go with it. (or HMS New Zealand, but Indefatigable would be a better choice). So keeping Leander exclusive to the commonwealth at the expense of the RN tree is not something I would want, especially given that she is the existing tier 6 in the RN CL line, and very unlikely to move from that, since she is quite well liked.

NA has any access to the ship either. LWM hasn't even put her review up, which is almost a surefire if a ship is available on the NA server. It kind of looks like RU are getting another campaign exclusive to them, at least at first, a bit like Project Oil (I think that was what it was called?). That was something that came after GNB, RU only or something. Of course I would love to talk about the ship....

Read above. Ontario/Minotaur is not in game. Some ships share the same name, and hence the HMS Minotaur at tier 10 is a design, which I posted above. And while ships can be buffed all over the place, having something so oddly out of place like Ontario at tier 8 or 10 or Yamato at tier 6 is extremely undesirable and unlikely. For in game purposes, and what this game takes account of, Minotaur/Ontario / Swiftsure class / HMS Superb is not different enough from a 3 turret Crown Colony. As I said before, please provide evidence of Canberra being mentioned at all in the game. Maybe you are thinking of a different game, because I have seen no evidence of a County class appearing any time soon. No. There was no RNZN Leander class. Leander was crewed by a NZ crew, and in the RNZN, but handed back to the RN at the end of WW2. She was born an RN ship, and died an RN ship, and while she was used by the RNZN, her place in the RN tree as the lead of the Leander class is fully justified. All 5 ships in the Leander class started with the RN. The RNZN used 2 of them (Leander & Achilles), but both were returned to the RN post WW2. They are RN ships through and through, and while a premium HMNZS Achilles could be considered a possibility, Leander is definitely not, since she is the lead of the class, and the lead of the class almost always takes the tech tree spot for her navy (which is RN, even if the RNZN used her). Orion, Neptune or Ajax are not suitable as they are not the lead of the class. Ajax would make a good premium on her own however. 7/8 of the entire class served in the RN to correct you, the only one that did not was Sydney, since she was sold to Australia before being commissioned as HMS Phaeton. 2 were transferred to the RNZN, before being given back to the RN. Since the RAN triplet were sold, the only survivor, Hobart was not given back to the RN. The class is more significant as an RN design, and given 7 of them served with the RN, they are in the right place in the RN CL tree at tier 6, instead of being solely Commonwealth exclusive. It's like talking to a brick wall at times... As for the Minotaur/Swiftsure class cruisers, Ontario (Ex Minotaur) can be used for the commonwealth, but bear in mind that this ship is basically just a Crown Colony minus 1 turret with improved AA. As I said, the highest tier in cruiser you would probably get up to is 7, maybe 8 at a push if really buff Shropshire or the Cockatoo. But that leaves gaps, such as a tier 4 or 5 cruiser, as there are no suitable candidates for those tiers, unless you want to nerf Achilles into tier 5, which I don't like. Here, I will list the suitable candidates for Commonwealth cruisers at each tier: I have left out those which will clash with other ships. You could in theory move each ship up/down a tier, though the thought of Niobe or Encounter at tier 4 makes for going for the Commonwealth ship. I - Prince David II - Pioneer, Philomel III - Niobe, Encounter, Adelaide, Brisbane IV - V - VI - Canberra, Achilles, Perth, Ontario, Quebec VII - Shropshire, Gambia VIII - IX - X -

I believe it was Norfolk. At least that is what I have heard and hence worked off of.

Well, she would be if her 4" DP guns actually were DP in game. Though only 2 were in commission at the time, maybe we could get a convoy defense historical operation, or U-boat hunting mission based later on in the war.

Asking which ship would have won IRL is no question. KGV controls and finishes the engagement. Another comparison for tier 7 would be Tennessee post rebuild (I can't imagine her being tier 6). It is not all about belt pens however. KGV & Rodney smashed the Bismarck and punched it full of holes. The superstructure was a scene of carnage. If KGV plays to her advantages, Colorado ends up the same way, crippled, unable to fight back, and as good as sunk. And in game, who says you have to fire AP vs other BBs? If creamgravy is correct, that 14" HE spam is lethal. And plus, you are forgetting the other aspects of the KGV that make her a tiers difference over Colorado. HP, speed, and any soft stat WG want to edit. Nothing is set in stone in game, as with the theoretical IRL scenario. If you want more reliable and detailed data on pen, use Nathan Okun's tables which can be found on navweaps. I know WG model pen curves and ballistics, but they are not representative of the ships out there, and seeing a ship forced down a tier because the game works against it doesn't seem right or fair given the significant arguments for the ship to be tier 8. Littorio is the next weakest tier 8 by comparison. She is not going to fair any better than a KGV sans overmatch at tier 8. Heck, Bismarck would be in danger if her secondaries and alike were toned down to make her tier 7 in the same KGV would be. Same would also apply to Monarch I believe. The arguments you apply to KGV apply to other ships if you take overmatch out of the equation, since the pen on KGV might limit a few things at tier 8 (weakest at pure pen), but means precious little in the long run of the game, considering it is but one aspect, and not a crippling one, on an otherwise decent ship. I don't see why some aspects of the 14" or just having 14" in general is enough to decide that a ship on par with it's contemparies historically is now no longer that, and gets nerfed into tier 7, at the expense of making the much awaited RN BB line have another paper ship in it and making KGV look worse than it was. (I know there are a few out there that think KGV deserves that, but from what I can tell, they mostly have something against the ship for some reason).

Why pretend that this game accurately models the guns of ships in a deeply ahistorical virtual environment? It doesn't. The range of the game is truncated/compressed/edited in such a way that long range pen is not as good as it was historically. This means that the RN 14" Mk.VII - which was quite a decent weapon at range (ask Scharnhorst), suffers quite a bit because of this. I know New Mex's 14" are not too different, but KGV's weapon is better by somewhat. However, having the weapon cropped in game should not be a reason to try and put KGV down a tier and make her look equal to Colorado. Emerald uses supercharges. Kirov has 4RPM. There are plenty of buffed aspects of ships to balance them at their respective tiers. Surely buffing an aspects of KGV's guns, or firing 15" shells from them is no different? For an obviously tier 8 ship aside from it's guns, surely this would be the logical solution to create a line of RN BBs that is testament to the ships they represent and balanced in terms of gameplay? (By the way, your numbers are wrong - the navweaps table doesn't represent the gun particularly well, the USN empirical formula is not without it's flaws. I think if the numbers are reversed through the formula, the gun calibre ends up being 13.7" or below, but that is out of my depth a little. - Firing trials did reveal the 14" could pen 12" side armour at 23.95km and 6" of deck armour at 25.6km. Not too far behind other larger calibre guns. Using Nathan Okun's tables, the 14" on KGV usually goes sub 12" of pen between 28'000 and 30'000 yards. - The larger German 15" does this at around 30'000 to 34'000 yards. All irrelevant in game because the game doesn't model this.) If this keeps going we will be seeing our new tier 7 Italian Battleships, Littorio & Roma, since KGV is not too dissimilar (better or worse) from them in terms of capability.

Considering I am but just a humble supertester which WG would probably ignore anyway, consider it not confirmed. But if it does turn out that way, you should assume that I have exported myself to St Petersburg.

Wait, I am allowed to talk then. :) In short, my view: KGV = Tier 8 regular. PoW = Tier 7 premium. Monarch = Tier 8 premium (if you must but this treads on Vanguard's territory). Done. No NDAs were harmed.

I don't think you get me. HMCS Ontario - ex HMS Minotaur is not tier 10 worthy. She is a slightly modified Crown Colony class, the new Minotaur/Swiftsure class. The Minotaur in game at tier 10, is this design: The HMCS Ontario is not capable of tier 8 even with buffs. She is effectively the same as HMCS Uganda/Quebec in basically all terms, and therefore only fits the same tiers as Uganda/Quebec. Tiers 6/7. Cockatoo is not a copy of the Hawkins class cruisers, and doesn't resemble one. The design more closely resembles a modified county class. The RAN did eventually decide on using the Kent sub class Counties instead. Promo-premium ship means nothing when you just say it. I have never seen anyone say definitively that Canberra will be a premium, WG or otherwise, even if she is likely to end up as one. For British players, she is also important, being the leader of the Leander class cruisers, which served with distinction in the Mediterranean. Achilles maybe, as a premium, but unlikely as a regular. When I say there will probably not be a Commonwealth line, I am speaking about it not being viable since basically all the ships are far too similar to the RN ships in the RN line. Most people don't tend to like 'clone' ships, even if said ships have some degree of history behind them. So yes, it is technically possible to build a DD line in part for the commonwealth, but it is not viable.

My views: ____, _ _______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ __ ____, ___ ____ __ __ _____ _ ______ ____ _ ___ ___ ________ __ __, __ ___ __ _______ ______ __ __. ______ __ _ ____ _____ ______ ___ _____ __ ___ _ ___ _____ _________. Damn you NDA, damn you. (If you know me well enough you should already be aware of my views anyway).

Nope I'm not wrong, HMS Minotaur in game is the Minotaur Design ZA (Or Z4) from 1946/7. She is equipped with 5 of the twin autoloading 6"/152mm turrets as found on the later Tiger class. The HMS Minotaur transferred to the Canadians was this one. Effectively, a slightly modified Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colonies. Built from the start with only 9x 6". Uganda was part of the Ceylon sub-class of the Crown Colony class. Instead of the 12x 6" the Fiji sub-class has, she would only have 9x 6", as the X turret from Fiji was deleted. Hence, she is not the same, as she has 1/4 of her main firepower removed right off the bat. Uganda/Quebec & Minotaur/Ontario would require major buffing and consumables to get them to work at tier 7. Cockatoo is an Australian design for a heavy cruiser 9x 8". It's about the most unique ship the Commonwealth would get, given the rest of the ships are RN hand-me-downs. Perth is already a premium, hence I listed it. There has been no mention of Canberra at all to my knowledge. She is a mostly unrebuilt Kent sub class of the County class, so would be a better fit for tier 6, while the Australia would be better as a tier 7. Shropshire is a mix of the two, she lacks the armour of Australia, but is more rebuilt than Canberra, receiving significant AA as she survived the war. HMS Leander was built and commissioned as an RN ship, and decommissioned as an RN ship. The Leander class is a British class of cruiser, even if Leander herself was manned by a New Zealand crew from 1937 to 1945. Hence, the class of cruiser is definitely more apt for the RN line, and should not transferred to the commonwealth. Achilles works as a premium however, she is not the lead ship of the RN Leander class, as the lead ship takes the tech tree spot. It would possible to split the Leander class into two groups, Leander & Amphion, it is nothing I already know, but using the lead ships as the regulars. Perth is already a premium, and rules out a regular Amphion sub-class, at least for the Commonwealth, it would still be technically possible to have a regular HMS Amphion, however pointless it would be. I have to repeat, it is highly unlikely that there will be a commonwealth tree. The line would basically be a line of RN clone ships. The most unique you get are the designs, a few post war ships, and refits/sub classes that were mostly used by the Commonwealth, like the Amphions, which the RN sold.

The commonwealth can't manage any cruiser higher tier than 6 or 7. Quite a few premiums, maybe some Free XP, but nothing gets beyond tier 7. RAN: - Pioneer (T2) - Adelaide (T3) - Encounter (T3) - Perth/Hobart (T6) - Canberra/Shropshire (T7) - Cockatoo Cruiser Design (T7) RCN: - Niobe (T3) - Quebec/Ontario (T6) RNZN has Achilles, but given Perth, she is redundant, especially since most would probably prefer a premium Ajax for the RN anyway.

Did not buy or expect anything in the first place. Tempted a little, but not enough. I expected nothing from the final days, mainly because I checked as stuff came on/off sale and did not take not of the actual writing of the sales article mentioning something special for the last two days. Hence, I really can't give a toss about the whole thing, from my selfish pedestal of; "It doesn't affect me, so care, I do not". No disappointment, no outrage, but also no potential sale if the any theoretical last 2 day special sale was worth getting. *raises hand*

Duca is pretty rare. The only one of the ten not sold in the premium store or tech tree.

It is definitely an R class BB, having only 1 funnel, which is quite close to the bridge structure, and shows none of the curving of the trunked funnels of the QEs. However, we can go one further. From the 2 fixed torpedo tubes in the bow (That flat rectangle in the hull underneath the guns of A turret), it has to be HMS Royal Oak. The underwater tubes were removed from all the Rs, but none of the other R class BBs carried torpedoes in the bow which Royal Oak had fitted to her in 1936. I'm fairly confident that you have your ship now, despite the blurry picture keeping a lot of the other distinguishing details out of focus.

Going to press X to doubt on this one.

Carlisle in that form has 4x 2 4"(102mm), a single Quad pompom, and either 7 single 20mm Oerlikons, or 5 Twin 20mm Oerlikons, depending on whether the photo is before or after November 1942. I had posted a full view of the CL-AA line in another topic but eh, I can repeat, minus the graphic because I am lazy today. The general gist is that these cruisers are generally smaller, but with defensive AA to reinforce their position in the game. Perhaps another consumable like hydro can be thrown in. III: Coventry IV: Cairo V: Dauntless (D class AA conversion). VI: Dido VII: Southampton* VIII: Spartiate (Z5) IX: Edgar (Z2) X: Minotaur (Z4/ZA) Premiums: IV: Delhi V: ~Insert Bellona sub-class member here~ V: Scylla/Charybdis VII: Blake VII: Hawke *= Southampton is only really in there because I want to get a regular Town class that is not the significantly different Edinburgh. She doesn't quite fit, but could potentially work.

I'm not trying to get myself kicked out of the ST >__> Basically all the stuff I post is speculation. Well, Weapon, Battle & Daring can all be 34kn, but it is dubious as to which speeds WG use and when. You could get most of the aforementioned DDs up to around 35-36kn if you tried. However I don't know what WG will decide. Randomly buffing Bertin to 39kn etc. seems to indicate a shift to trials speeds, but most ships in the game remain roughly around a practical top speed. As for which DDs should be there, my sig is a gateway to it.

Tell that to the prospective tier 8, 9 and 10 RN DDs who get 34kn standard. Akizuki would probably get a rudder shift boost if bumped up a tier, I know not just shifting the overmatch mechanics will do.