Trainspite

Hah. You amuse me so. I have never been citadel hit from the rear or front in Warspite. It is also through the sides, under the front turrets and aircraft catapult usually. And having a better win rate and average experience means nothing. I would say that we are equal on that front, since I get more kills, do more damage, shoot down far more planes, more often than not survive the battle and hit more often. Otherwise, I don't much to say to you if you are going to be as ignorant as that.

quoted postg removed Feisty one you are! (Let's hope for your sake that Vuk doesn't see what you said) If you want me to correct your original post then I can gladly do so, even if I may just be wasting my time. - No cruiser has a 13" belt. If you are trying to say Warspite is comparatively squishy for a BB, then maybe, due to armour model faults and bugs, and Warspite sitting very high in the water. - The turning time is fine. I have a 56s turn time on my Warspite, better than my New Mexico (60s). Learn to live with it. - The armour model is iffy. The citadel could arguably be smaller (creamgravy points that out I think). - Warspite does burn, and the 5s repair does not help. - The AA is fine. Really, I can shoot down quite a few planes, provided someone has not HE spammed my 40mm "pom poms" first. - Range in game seems to be determined by the height of the rangefinder on the ship. Hence, Warspite being fairly small and squat, the range is not a lot. And the hit in question only caused damage to the Guilo Cesare, albeit not too serious damage. The guns are heavily RNG dependent. Dispersion often causes misses and 1k hits. But if they hit, they usually hit hard. Warspite is fairly good at deleting cruisers at a medium range or so.

Press "F" to pay respects to those brain cells that were lost reading the above.

Does this apply to the Orion as well? I can imagine that Iron Duke would recieve a Queen Anne's Mansion, but I would doubt Orion would get one really. Maybe a few AA mounts stapled on, but a full rebuild seems a little unlikely. I did not expect Kaiser to also get a substantial rebuild, I would have thought that he was adequate enough without one, with just a few added extra AA guns.

I did not really think Kaiser would need a drastic refit like that. Konig & Bayern maybe, but I expected Kaiser to be left alone for the most part.

They are going to have to with Emden at some point.

They could have done the same with Bismarck to be honest, so Scharnhorst being the premium breaks the trend, unless WG have decided that Gneisenau with 380mm after the rebuild is a very different ship to Scharnhorst, in the same way that Nurnberg & Leipzig are not treated as a class. This would mean Gneisenau can't get the 283mm guns as an upgrade, and it also disregards that Scharnhorst could ever get the 380mm guns as well. Not the approach I would take, but I get no say in the matter at the end.

Well, they would be missing out on a very popular little tier 4 premium if they do so. So I think that unlikely, although anything can happen, looking at the information surrounding Gneisenau (Where's my armoured cruiser!).

Afaik, that Seydltiz was renamed Weser during that time.

Moltke was mentioned, but I think it unlikely, he would be better in a German BC Tree, since Seydlitz & Goeben/Yavuz would sell better as they are more famous. And they are the sister ship and unique ship.

- Probably, if not sooner - Seydlitz, Seydlitz, Seydlitz, Seydlitz, Seydlitz, Seydlitz. Please be Seydlitz.

Have a Salute from HMS Warspite as a farewell! All the best and hope you enjoy your new job!

Nope. I still have my 30 second reload. I went for Secondary Battery Mod 2 instead of Main Battery Mod 1. Don't ask how I have managed to get a Warspite with a 56.3s turret turn time and a 30 sec reload, but I have. I have expert marksman on Rear Admiral Edward James, but other than that I don't know.

My Warspite has 56 second turret traverse. 4 seconds faster than my New Mexico's. Turret traverse is hardly a problem with Warspite, the range in tier 8 battles and armour are the two things that bug me. And the RNG.

About Warspite. - Add her turret AA mounts. - Move the damn flag to the main mast. - Her nameplate. Plz. I still think Warspite is as RNG dependent as ever really, though, her armour could do with a buff (lower in water) - she does take a lot more damage than she used to. Nowhere near as a reliable ship for taking a few hits anymore.

This is where it gets confusing, what defines an armoured cruiser, and what defines a Protected cruiser. Minotaur & St Louis are very similar, yet one is a large protected cruiser and another is an armoured cruiser. The ships specifications vary all around the place which makes it very hard to pinpoint and say that this definitively is a "cruiser" or "Battleship". Players would be confused, and this where armoured cruisers really don't have much of a place in the game at all, cruisers with BB armour? Battleships with Cruiser guns? Personally I would go for what we already have, meaning tier 3 cruises, where they get countered by the tier 3 BBs and BCs, but can easily shut down other cruisers.The bigger ones however can be shoved up a tier. At least this applies to those that have cruiser armament, and fit in line with that. I'm not so sure with the Japanese & Americans however. As I said, they are awkward things to deal with. The only armoured cruiser not armed with BB calibre weapons in terms of timeframe that is really out of it's depth is the Blucher, otherwise the rest fit nicely enough.

A detailed look at Battlecruiser Design J3 It's like some sort of cross between Hood and Littorio. And retains both of their good looks! Good day folks, a quick foreword, over on the NA server, user dseehafer runs a very successful series, known as "A detailed look at" or ADLA for short. I have promised to make myself a little more unique when creating my own little sub series of reviews, so I have chosen to only review those ships that for whatever reason, never made of the drawing board, or off the slipway. This is essentially a copy of the NA thread, for EU viewers, since I know some people don't go on the NA forums. The first design to take up the mantle is the Royal Navy’s J3 Battlecruiser design. One of the many designs for a new post World War 1 battlecruiser for the Royal Navy, she was designed in 1920, after the preceding K2 & K3 designs. J3 was saving on displacement compared to the other designs, and sacrificed a heavy 16” or 18” main armament for higher speed. Her armour and size was comparable to her predecessor, HMS Hood. However, J3 was deemed too vulnerable, there were large gaps in her comparatively thick deck armour that could allow the magazines to be hit and the ship was not really what the Royal Navy wanted. The design process for a new battlecruiser moved on to I3. Bearing in mind that this ship is a design, the values may be substantially different to what we see here, and I will try and take a best guess as to what WG will do with this fine battlecruiser. WEIGHT – 43’100t This equates to 61’666 hit points, through the BB HP equation (10756 + (1.1812 x tonnage) However this is the as built or standard displacement of the ship, and the deep load displacement is used as the hit points for the top hull. This means, that if we take a theoretical deep load gaining 6’000t, J3 ends up with 68’753 hit points. Rounded to 68’700, this is only behind Tirpitz at tier 8, beating Amagi and North Carolina by an excess of 2’000. So this does suggest that J3 will end up at the higher end of the hit point scale at tier 8. ARMOUR – Main belt: 305mm (12”) thick. An external belt, angled at 25 degrees. Bulkheads: 305mm (12”) Deck: 51-102mm (2”-4”) Main deck is 4” (102mm) thick. Thins to 3” (76mm) then 2” (51mm) at Fore & Aft. Turrets: 203-380mm (8”-15”) Front; 15” (380mm), Side; 12” (305mm) Roofs; 8” (203mm) J3 is quite well armoured, definitely more so than her Japanese contemporary; Amagi, having the same citadel armour as North Carolina, only more heavily angled. Her deck is not as good as North Carolina however. I would not expect J3 to match up to Tirpitz however, but she is definitely better than Amagi, and for the most part on par with North Carolina. MAIN BATTERY – 3x3 381mm Housed in 3 Triple turrets; 2 forward and 1 Aft, J3 would use the 15”/50 gun (381mm). This is essentially the 15”/42 you find already in game on Warspite, but firing the same shells at a higher velocity. Otherwise everything is the same as Warspite, except you have 9 of these guns. The turrets may bear a resemblance to Nelson’s however, so we could see a better traverse speed. SECONDARY BATTERY – 6x2 152mm, 6x1 120mm, * As originally designed this is the same as Nelson, with 3 twin 6” turrets being able to fire to a broadside, with 6 High Angle 4.7” DP mounts. However, this is as designed in 1920. At tier 8, she has to compete with the 1930s treaty battleships, and this secondary armament may not be adequate enough. Certainly though, this original design can serve as an A hull in game. But WG will most likely give J3 a top hull which has a 4.5” (113mm) or 5.25” (133mm) dual purpose battery. Nelson and Rodney where proposed to receive such a refit, so J3 can receive such a refit as well. However, the specifics of the upgrade depends on how WG architect the final hull. AA BATTERY – 6x1 120mm, 4x (4/8) 40mm Pom Pom Mounts As said above, this is also inadequate for high tiers, and it depends on how much AA they decide to give J3 with their design of a WW2 refit that would have given her improved AA, had she been built. Likely to appear are the aforementioned 4.5” and 5.25” DP batteries, along with numerous 20mm and 40mm mounts. SPEED – 32 knots This would make J3 the fastest tier 8 Battleship yet, but her speed could be reduced by an improved AA hull refit. Even so, she should still be the fastest around. CONCLUSION – Overall, I think J3 (Or as I call her, Magnificent) will be a good candidate for tier 8, probably in a British Battlecruiser tech tree, which would probably come in the far distant future. She is quite average compared to the rest of the tier 8 BBs currently in the game, and slots herself into the middle of most categories. She may seem a little under-gunned compared to the 16” wielding North Carolina and Amagi, but her other aspects will help her out here, being a more flexible ship, in all aspects but being manoeuvrable (being as long as Yamato). Being similar in size and armour to Hood, likely a tier 7, her upgrade to slot her above Hood is her firepower. Of course, if I have made any mistakes feel free to point them out, feedback is appreciated, and have a nice day! Also, let me know of any other design ships you want me to review as well, and I will see if I can review them as well. PROS – - Best in class speed. - Good AA & Secondaries (WG dependent) - Above Average number of hit points - Low Detection range – Being lower than the others CONS – - Can seem under-gunned compared to others. - Poor Turning circle, being the longest of any of the tier 8s. - No Aircraft catapult (Although WG can add one) - May have a sub-par firing range. Pretty Pictures:

So slow, I took my Cleveland out and got 2.2s for 4.5km. As well as this the report that 12-13km taking 30 seconds is also not happening. I would expect a shell that flies similarly to Kuma's myself, otherwise WG might as well not put Hawkins in at all. 6RPM could be too much, if WG make the shell arcs decent, but Hawkins guns would be a midway between the 6" & 8" guns in a way that Kirov's are not. Hawkins is shorter than Furutaka, so her turning circle should be better, and her armour is roughly the same, so it depends on your prefrence, if you want a heavy cruiser that plays like a light cruiser in parts, that is slightly slower than average (31 Knots - unless you decide to break the ship) then Hawkins fits.

It would be quite interesting to compare how Northampton & Pensacola compare if they both recieve a final C hull like this. Both would have their huge detection radiuses removed, but I wonder which one if any would perform better with that limitation removed. Northampton is slightly better armoured, can fire 6 guns forward, and has better AA, while Pensacola has more hit points, an extra gun broadside, and should turn better than Northampton. I feel Pensacola may be able to use her superior maneuverability a bit more often.

Well, with the HP of a tier 6 or 7 (12k Displacement) Hawkins can definitely take hits. Her guns fire a lighter shell than Kirov, but they have a 5-6 RoF, a 6 gun broadside of those every 10 seconds is going to hurt. She could even get torpedoes as well. The downsides would be that she would be fairly slow, and that the historical shell trajectories can't be used (6.8 seconds for a shell to reach 4.5km is not going to make it into the game).

The in game stats are there just to fit with the other reviews on NA, needless to say if and when J3 makes it into the game, we will see how accurate I was. As for the 15"/50, I don't know the statistics of it (I had to go asking), I only really know that it is a longer 15"/42 that fires the same shells at higher velocity. In game I guess this would mean flatter arcs and having an easier time penetrating, but otherwise it would be the same as Warspite with the same shells.

That is very true, however, we do already have St Louis & Boggy B in game, which also dwarf the small protected cruisers. Both are very strong ships, and swapping the 8 6" broadside out for a 4 8" etc. broadside and with mostly thicker armour. A lot of the tier 3s like Prinz Adalbert are not especially bigger, or in some cases smaller than what we already have. I guess it is just the style of play is a lot more similar to a BB, but most armoured cruisers still retain their speed and their RoF difference over large Battleships. Tsukuba & Ibuki are more difficult to pass off as a cruiser, they are still 4-5k lighter than Dreadnought, yet they have armoured cruiser armour. I am aware that of the relationship between a BC and an armoured cruiser, but I don't think it is really a good idea to get players at low tier accustomed to "Battleships" that have cruiser guns (3-5 RPM). The German & British ships have these guns that fit with a cruiser mentality, but the some of the Japanese & American ones, not so much. Which is why armoured cruisers are a pain to balance. I wouldn't try and pass them off as BBs, especially with an armoured cruiser line a possibility.

Again giving the thread a small bump, however, for those who may be interested, there is a review of the potential tier 8 Battlecruiser, Design J3 here. I did not want to put it in this thread, and it should really be in the correct section afterall . That thread also has an NA twin.

They certianly bear similarities with the pre-dreadnoughts, usually having 4 guns, larger than average, but I would not really put them in the same band of the capital ships, they are a good deal faster and less well armoured. Indeed, if they meet a true capital ship they will be trashed nine times out of ten. Their RoF is their only saving grace in that situation really. To me they best fit in the game as heavy cruisers, albeit awkward ones. You can combine a Panzerschiffe & Armoured Cruisers along these lines: They do lose their armour at either tier 5 or tier 7, but they retain the larger than average guns.

True enough, if WG can balance it right, then the Germans can get a unique line of Panzerschiffes/Armoured Cruisers, while the Japanese can get a seaplane tender line using Nisshin, Oyodo, Agano-Kai, Tone & Mogami etc. Either works really, although WG would probably have to create the tier 10s.