Trainspite

Not really. It's based on the guns historical performance. WG try to keep to the historical stats if they can, and if they work, then they use them. They definitely work here. The guns that De Grasse had fire a heavier shell at a higher velocity. Which equates to a flatter shell arc in simple terms. The better retention of kinetic energy in the shell and it's weight means a higher fire chance is likely. Which means players get an easier time in damaging targets. You are overhyping the maneuverability disadvantage. I would expect a 700/710m turning circle based on the ships length. Which is by no means bad for tier 8, as only New Orleans beats it. The armour won't save you from high calibre AP, that is granted, but neither will maneuverability. It doesn't save Atlanta. Yes, it is easier for Atlanta to dodge and be unpredictable, but that just means that there is a skill cap in playing De Grasse effectively. And since De Grasse will be playing from longer ranges more often, it means she gets more time to dodge. Worse maneuverability definitely doesn't make her comparable to Atlanta in other areas. And guess what, aside from the flatter shell arcs which make De Grasse more comfortable at longer ranges than Atlanta, De Grasse is taller, which, while making her less stealthy, has the advantage of putting the rangefinder up high, which is what WG use to determine the firing range. Put simply, De Grasse is an Atlanta killer, not a French version of Atlanta, outclassing Atlanta in almost every way. Making Atlanta obsolete. Atlanta is a situational enough ship at tier 7 already, she can put out bucket loads in damage in HE spamming and fires, and then none at all at times. De Grasse would do more damage with easier shells to work with, meaning more shells hit. Those shells cause more fires, and there are far more of them in the air. Even at 15 RPM, this puts Atlanta to shame. On top of that De Grasse can take more of a beating. This is not a good recipe for tier 7. A tier 8 premium suits De Grasse just fine. No, the intended RoF for that gun was 6 RPM. Which in practice gets lowered to 4-5. And WG is not fussy about buffing RoF as they please. Historical or not, if 5 was achievable, and 6 was targeted, that gives WG enough excuse. They are not as fussy with RoF as they are with other historical characteristics. It is an advantage over the other cruisers of comparable tiers for sure. You are probably looking at the Italian 8" if you think it is 3-4 RPM. As I said before, Suffren & Duquesne trade out armour for gun performance (RoF), so are ships with a higher skill cap, more damage if you can get them to work. Other cruisers will be more forgiving of hits, but Suffren can put out more hurt if played right. Her speed is average, as I stated before, no disadvantages there. (Insert comparison to French tanks in WoT here - Low armour, can go horribly wrong, Higher damage potential if it goes right, damage galore).

Basically all of the 1930s treaty BBs should be sitting together at tier 8 (Littorio, Bismarck, KGV, Richelieu, South Dakota, and North Carolina) Standard displacement is only used for a stock hull. Full load displacement is usually used as the top HP, and with Anson & Howe getting themselves onto the 45k Displacement mark (or 46 for Anson) - it is reasonable to assume that this would be used. Bismarck for comparison gets 50k for a full load displacement, so while KGV may be behind at tier 8 on hit points, not massively so. KGV is definitely tier 8 material, think of her as a North Carolina in terms of AA, mobility and maneuverability, but with the best armour at tier 8, which she pays for with a mediocre main armament (Unless she gets the 15" she was originally planned, which could make KGV borderline overpowered).

Can I claim the captaincy of Swayback Maru please? Edit: Could speed grind Furutaka as well if need arises itself, though I doubt it... and I have a Fubuki in reserve if it is needed, though that looks unlikely too. Edit V2: I meant Salt Lake City when referring to being the captain of Swayback Maru (Damn you Japanese-esque nickname ), though I don't really mind where I end up. Although I might have a sudden rush of tactical ineptitude, so there is that.

I do? I know I posted a couple of pictures for Pensacola preliminaries, but I don't think I released a topic on it..... Those pictures are somewhere around, I forgot which thread it was though.... (Was it piritskenyer's Pensacola rework?)

*not so shameless plug* My signature holds a few ideas for thought until the RN arrives.

I said the shell arcs are good. The velocity (probably not the best wording there). The shells that De Grasse fires are heavier, and faster, and with a larger bursting charge, so theoretically a better fire chance, though the shells are the same as Atlanta. De Grasse shifts along at 33.8 knots. Atlanta lags behind here. 1.3 knots faster. De Grasse if keeping to remotely historical data, as WG try to do, has a significant RoF (15-18 compared to 12) advantage over Atlanta. De Grasse displaces 12'400t on full load, which equates to roughly 32'900 HP. A significant increase over Atlanta. De Grasse has better AA, with 20 57mm Bofors which is superior to the Bofors 40mm you usually find. The armour is better than a few of the cruisers you will find. A 100mm belt is not something to underestimated, though at tier 8 it can be punched through fairly easily. Still, there are less easy citadels to be had with De Grasse when compared to Atlanta. It is definitely not even. De Grasse blows Atlanta out of the water with far superior firepower, and better survivability to boot. All Atlanta has is mobility, but that does not make them equal in any way. Well, armour is not everything. You can't look at one specific of a ship and then base it's tier around that. Otherwise you end up with Cleveland, nerfed into tier 6 because she has 6" guns, irrespective of her other characteristics. Speed is also on par with almost every cruiser from tier 5 and upwards. Generally once you move past tier 4 cruisers will not get much faster than they already are. Suffren could make 32.5 knots I believe which is adequate enough, but nothing special. Roughly on par with what the Germans, Americans and British get. The 8" guns that the French get are basically on par with the other 8" guns in terms of performance. However, she has 8 of them, and they have a RoF of 4-5 RPM. Expect the higher figure for Suffren & Duquesne, when compared to their contemparies. What you have with Suffren & Duquesne are fairly average heavy cruisers (Torpedoes, Maneuverability, AA etc. Not standing out in one area), comparable to their counterparts (County class, Pensacola, Northampton, Trento etc.) but they trade out armour for a better damage potential. Seems reasonable enough. Increasing the already bad power creep by pushing them down to tiers 5 and 6 is as bad as saying Pensacola should be a tier 6. Which is bad, since those that want Pensacola at tier 6 want the world to burn.

Not bad for a first attempt, but I think the French BB line when it arrives is more likely to look like this: III - Courbet IV - Bretagne V - Normandie VI - Lyons VII - Strasbourg VIII - Richelieu IX - Alsace X - Fictional Alsace avec 16"

Ask WG. I guess that was what they decided on when they had their list of options for determining range...

Range is determined by the height of the rangefinder on the ship in most cases.

I still must be the only one that agrees with FdG on H39/41. I would have preferred GvB or UvH on the tier 10 though.

I understand that, RoF is one of the more played with statistics/ balance factors, WG do try to stick to historical values at first though. Brooklyn & Helena have guns that are quoted between 6-8 RPM, but Cleveland ups the tempo to 10, and Worcester even further to 12. It should work like that, and with no other suitable candidate except for a Proto-Brooklyn with 4 turrets, Brooklyn may need to be on the low end for RoF. As built Pensacola or Northampton could make an appearance as a premium or a new A hull, although many people may not like it due to the lack of AA etc. The USN is quite lopsided, in that there are a lot of candidates for tier 6/7 onwards, but hardly any for the lower tiers, reflecting the USNs expansion. A nerfed Omaha could work given WGs pretty terrible cruiser power creep at the moment. Other than that, not really.

Guns are miles better. Better velocities, better RoF (15-18RPM). Better HP. Better armour. Better AA. Faster as well. The only thing Atlanta has over De Grasse are torpedoes and concealment and maneuverability. Though Atlanta is currently not well regarded, De Grasse at tier 7 which is significantly better a lot of aspects is not advisable. Duquesne does not fit at tier 5. Armour is not everything. Even being as fragile with a destroyer does not count out her armament and her speed. Tier 6 if you must, but putting Duquesne at tier 5 only increases the cruiser power creep that already plagues the mid-tiers. Suffren is fine at tier 7. The same applies. They may be glass canons, but that does not justify them being lower in tier. If anything it diversifies the field by bringing in other advantages like a faster RoF. More likely WG have decided to split Dunkerque & Strasbourg into two sub classes independent of each other, like how Leipzig and Nurnberg are at the moment. I would guess Strasbourg follows with a French BB line as a tier 7.

Well, I thought Dunkerque would be a tier 6 premium, now I just need Strasbourg to be a tier 7 regular, and I am completely right! As for subs. Not in random battles. No. Maybe there own dedicated mode, like convoy or something. But they do not fit in random battles at all.

Well, Warspite never looked like Warspite without them to me, so I am pleased to see them. The camo should apply to them in due course. Not so sure on the camo, it looks a little too blue for her 1942 camo.

Well, Houston is famous for her last stand mainly. Chicago could also work as a premium, say stock loadout but increased RoF, since they got sunk early and hence never recieved what the 3 survivors got. As for Light Cruisers, Cleveland should be moved to tier 8. And have the ahistorical nerfs imposed upon her lifted (10RPM, historical AA, etc.). The only thing holding back that would be the shell arcs, which should be adjusted. Brooklyn could work at tier 7, but she has tier 8 firepower, so should have her RoF nerfted down from the maximum of 8, since she is the contempary to Mogami. Helena would do well as a tier 8 premium (Better survivability than Brooklyn, relatively famous, and no nerfs). Fargo is too similar to Cleveland to warrant a higher tier, she has minimal advantages (AA arcs & slightly fatter more displacement/HP) - so also fits into the tier 8 premium slot. While Worcester is listed as tier 10 for now, 12 6" at 12RPM is not going to cut it when the British tier 10 CL, Minotaur Z4 arrives on the scene with her 10 6" at 20RPM. So I would think Worcester should be moved down to tier 9. A super Worcester, with the two of the deck level turrets removed due to the weight of new triple autoloading 6" turrets, would suit tier 10 fine. Having a better gun placement for flexibility and a better RoF (Proposed 20RPM). Here is what I think a re-worked US cruiser line would look like:

Ta WG! All 3 problems I seriously moaned about with Warspite have been fixed. Is of Happy now.

Well, it could be fixed if WG find the time to model the differences. But that would be fairly far off in the future. Including those differences between ships in class may come when WG has not a lot of modelling to do, and when they introduce the option to name your ship. WG could change the camouflages around, although how New Orleans drivers may react, I'm not quite sure.

I absolutely abhor the freedom/sovereignty argument. It really got on my nerves when one of my relatives mentioned "take our country back" after the vote (Almost went on a rant, but just told him he was wrong and walked off) To me that argument just holds no practical meaning and has no backbone, but I digress. I kinda hope this thread dies since as I said before, it just gets people frustrated while going nowhere, but knowing the topic it won't.

WG will probably fix details like that at some point or so. It isn't a priority for them at the moment, understandably. San Fran is a very popular ship with the NA community I think, due to her war record. Minneapolis wouldn't be bad bet either for a tier 8 premium, assuming Wichita is used in a second branch, and a 12 gun Pensacola is considered unsuitable by WG. Hasn't really stopped the Russians having Diana, Aurora, Murmansk, Krazny Krym, Molotov & Mikhail Kutuzov. I don't really see a problem with multiple premiums, just don't saturate the game with them in too short a time.

Problems with First past the post. It becomes increasingly unfair in terms of being representative. Given this situation, there is no easy way around it since it is effectively a 50/50 split, maybe slightly in favour of remain if you include the non voting electorate (Or the rest of the international community). There are reasons why the referendum was a huge mistake in the first place. Trying to buy voters out of ukip in the election really has bit the conservatives back.

If you have ever spoken to Toby, I would challenge you to tell me he is German. (He just doesn't bother with the internets).

I haz points!! Woo! I haz ninja skills! Woo V2! In all seriousness, Entwurf I/10 is the most cruiser like of the Deutschland preliminaries I have seen, hence why it is in the cruiser tree, and not a dedicated Panzerschiffe tree. Either way, I have gone a little off topic...

Most German ones aren't. Though that seems unlikely, it is as good as anything I can explain at the moment. For fitting in the game, I think Konig has to keep the turret. I don't think extra speed would be a good compromise for a reduction in firepower.

Entwurf I/10.

Not allowed to be lazy/broad with my words anymore...