Trainspite

None of the counties were particularly lucky ships to be honest. Shropshire might be one of the more fortunate of the class, while Berwick was definitely one the more unlucky.

A detailed look at Surrey (Design Y) Did someone say the County class cruisers had poor armour? First of all apologies for being very dishonourabru and leaving it over 3 weeks since the last review of mine. I have been busy recently, although I did donate what would have been my second review to Lert (What can I say, I’m so kind ) So, what is Surrey? Well, it is a county in the south of England. Otherwise known as a place of sad commuters and picturesque countryside. Those of you familiar with your British cruisers should then have the alarm bells ringing at what this ship is. But in case you don’t, incoming historical context paragraph! A nice view of the place one of the these two ships would have been named for. You probably came here for the ship though, not English Countryside.... I'll get back on track then. Designed to be the next class of British heavy cruisers after the Norfolk sub class, the Admiralty looked at what the next ships should be, playing around with a 5 turreted design, but ultimately deciding that the new ships would be repeats of the previous county sub-class, Norfolk, but with increased protection. Two designs ended up being considered, Design X and Design Y, X being faster at 32 knots, but Y having about 400t more armour and was slightly smaller. Design Y was chosen, though there was considerable support for Design X. Surrey and her sister Northumberland were assigned to built at Portsmouth and Devonport dockyards respectively, under the 1928 programme, however the new labour government in Britain cancelled those ships of the 1928/9 programme were suspended while a new naval conference took shape. The 2 cruisers following on from Surrey in the 1929/30 programme, with a modified design including a bridge structure similar to that of HMS Exeter also were cut. WEIGHT – 9’900t The standard displacement for Surrey came out at 100 tons under the 10’000t limit for 8” armed cruisers, so this weight, and its hit point equivalent using Fro5sty’s formulas is roughly 30’250. This would only apply to an A hull for Surrey, her full load displacement, which is used for top hit points, would be roughly around 13’800t, based on her predecessors. This gives Surrey a respectable slab of around 36’450 HP to work with, which is good enough at tier 8. This is quite comparable to New Orleans. ARMOUR – Main belt: 146mm (5.75”) thick. 2.7m high. Bulkheads: Machinery; 140mm (5.5”) Magazine; 76mm (3”) Deck: 76mm (3”) Turrets: 25mm (1”) All over the turret. Including Barbettes. Surrey’s magazines and engines are encased in box armour, quite thick for a cruiser of tier 8 or below. Both have side armour of 5.7”, and were perceived as resistant to 6” and 8” gunfire at most ranges. However, her turrets let her down. Carried over from the previous county classes, they are poorly protected, and so losing a turret could be a problem for Surrey as well as the other county’s despite the other redeeming features of the turret, including a decent traverse speed. (5-8 degrees a second depending on preferences) Nabbed from Shipbucket, this side profile is an interpretation of how Surrey could have been completed. This could represent the A hull in game. I'm not so sure about the two straight funnels though. I like the 3 raked funnels of the earlier counties better. MAIN BATTERY – 4x2 203mm A fairly typical heavy cruiser armament, 8 8”/50 Mk.VII in 4 twin turrets. These guns are fairly nice. They can have a RoF between 3 to 5 RPM (Planned to be 6RPM – If WG feels so inclined to include that stat), and I would suggest the higher figure there, to keep Surrey in line with the other similarly armed tier 8 cruiser in game at the moment, the significantly fatter Admiral Hipster. The shell ballistics should also be about the same as what we see with the Japanese and American 8” guns that arm their respective heavy cruisers (New Orleans, Mogami). SECONDARY BATTERY – 4x1 102mm, * As originally planned, this is not very impressive. At all. 2 guns per side. However, Surrey can probably receive what Norfolk did in 1937, which is double 4” mounts (Mk.XVI in Mk.XIX mounts) replacing the single 4” (Mk.V on Mk.III mounts). The double mounts and guns are the same as fitted to Warspite, and if their performance on the Warspite is anything to go by, they will be decent enough, though a cruisers secondary armament is never a big factor. AA BATTERY – 2x 8 40mm Pom Pom Mounts, (4x2 102mm) Take this with a grain of salt, the counties had their AA armament increased as they lived their lives through WW2, so there is good reason to assume Surrey will also receive additional 20mm Oerlikons. However, these additions are unlikely to give Surrey the AA capabilities of the other tier 8 cruisers. TORPEDOES & AIRCRAFT – A single quadruple launcher per side. Likely to receive the Mk.IX** torpedo. Which travels 10.1km at 62 knots, or alternatively 13.7km at 56 knots. Unfortunately Surrey has the torpedo launchers a deck lower than most other British cruisers, hence Surrey will have quite Japanese style torpedo arcs. Surrey also has 2 catapults, so should be capable of using them for a fighter or spotter aircraft. SPEED – 30.25 knots The price for having the extra armour on the cruiser, is that Surrey is very slow for a high tier cruiser. This could break the ship for many people, not being able to chase down Destroyers, or run away from some Battleships. MANEUVERABILITY & CONCEALMENT – Surrey is short and stout compared to her other heavy cruiser counterparts. At 173m long, approximately the size of Pensacola, we can expect Surrey to be similar. Surrey is fairly small as well, but her 2 funnels are quite high, and her rangefinder is not all that high either, so this could result in a lacklustre firing range. Two further cruisers were planned after Surrey & Northumberland, and would have had some differences to the Surrey design. Some of those differences, like the bridge structure can theoretically be applied to Surrey. CONCLUSION – At the end, I feel that Surrey is the most likely candidate for a first tier 8 RN Heavy cruiser. Her extra armour give her a step up over the preceding county classes, which are likely to be at tier 7. However, the ship is not without its drawbacks, including the poor speed. Furthermore Zara is definitely better protected than Surrey, so Surrey is not the best armoured on the block. However, her firepower should be more than adequate. I would imagine Surrey does best at closer ranges to utilise her good maneuverability and torpedoes, and to bully other cruisers into submission. However, if Surrey doesn’t feel competitive enough, then a rebuild based on that of HMS London is also an option, to increase AA and possibly the speed, as well as aspects from the following 2 planned cruisers of the 1929/30 programme, which turns Surrey into a well-rounded tier 8. New ideas for future reviews are appreciated, and I hope you have enjoyed this review, or at least found it mildly interesting. Feedback is appreciated, and do you think Surrey will be good enough to compete at tier 8? (Also, I have this horrible feeling I have made some glaring historical errors – either that or I just don’t have high expectations of myself) PROS – - Well protected compared to others - Good Maneuverability (Prepare for incoming Torpedobeats!) - Torpedoes! Remotely usable ones as well. - Small, Squat and Stealthy. - Good RoF and potential damage output. CONS – - Slow for a cruiser. - Fairly Poor Torpedo arcs. - Turrets vulnerable to incapacitation. - Could have poor range. - Possibly lacklustre AA The creator of these images also gave a nice review of the careers of the ships if Surrey, Northumberland and the two following cruisers were built. A possible premium camouflage pattern perhaps, and how a final Surrey hull could look in game?

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau work well enough in game with their 11" guns. Otherwise WG would not introduce Scharnhorst as she is now. And since Scharnhorst has apparently very questionable accuracy, not to mention using the lower end of the historical stats (3RPM - not above to 3.5), it shows that Scharnhorst is definitely not UP, and probably OP in a lot of cases. The only reasons I can see that makes any logical sense for Gneisenau not to get the 11" is to give Scharnhorst a selling point as a premium. Who knows though, maybe after some time they will introduce an option for Gneisenau to use them, once WG have sold enough Scharnhorsts. Hope that puts an end to it.

Not especially like that, but a lot of them have similar characteristics, and a difference is usually a little less pronounced, like number of secondary guns etc.

Fair enough, then, though I don't think anyone else had offered to be Farenholt though. I am outside on the day (16th) as well, but unless I am incapacitated on the day, I will make it back by the evening.

There are plenty of designs and specifications from the early war 1939-1941 to build at least 2 or 3 branches up from tier 8 to 10. I would only suggest two though, otherwise, many many paper ships, and not enough difference. The two tier 10s would be the 12x 8" design, and the 9x 9.2" design.

This!

Well, they could have done it for Bismarck... And they haven't, so I think they will try not to. However, what could happen is two versions of Hood. A Hood '1941' premium compared to regular Hood '1920' , since they did add dates to the end of sims and Yubari for some reason in the premium store... (Oh, hi there Emden) Nelson puts herself into the middle in terms of speed, at the top in armour, but her guns are not so brilliant when compared to the other two. Her playstyle would be similar to Izumo's, and slightly more ease in firing forward. Basically tier 7 Izumo, decent armour, decent speed, okay-ish guns, but just doesn't really stand out in anything.

Nelson and Rodney could only work at tier 8 with soft stat buffs to their guns and the planned DP AA Battery fitted. I would advocate Rodney as a tier 7 premium, and Nelson as a tier 7 regular in a slow BB line. Hood works well enough as a tier 7 in a BC/Fast BB line, (Invincible > Lion > Tiger > Renown > Hood > J3 > G3 > K3/I3/H3a). I am very opposed to her being a premium in all honesty. You could put her in a first BB line after QE and before KGV, but since WG have stated Hood is not being modeled at the moment, unless RN BBs are some way off, (They could be), Nelson looks a little more likely, though I would prefer an improved QE design to be honest.

Well, with that hull, a little extra AA would be added...

Lexington/Saratoga in BC form is more likely to be a tier 7 regular BC under the name Constellation.

If these aren't treated as DP, then there is a chance that poor old Minotaur Z4 will have no secondaries at all.

Pensa's firepower is good, her AA is good, her mobility is excellent and her armour is squishy, but is no more squishy than the other cruisers, and is one of the better off at the tier. There are really three disadvantages to Pensacola. - Detection Range - can be solved with a historical C hull, where the tripod mast that gives Pensacola her detection range was cut down, so she would be similar to Indianapolis (More range, more stealthy) - No Torpedoes, though with a historical as built condition, you could get them, though they would be similar in usefulness to Atlanta's. However, there is a possibility for Salt Lake City to be a tier 7 premium in this set up. - Myoko is at tier 7. And Myoko is overpowered. (Why does Myoko have a better RoF than Atago, Ibuki & Mogami? - Yer not a tier 8 anymore Myoko...)

Konig Albert is taking Kaisers stock hull and placing it a tier lower. This could work with Fletcher for example, so WG could get a premium tier 8 Fletcher, but I don't think Kaiser's stock hull, is really ideal for tier 3. Too much armour and hit points really. Unless the ship gets nerfted a little more, I can't see it being balanced at tier 3. Is Konig Albert that "ready to release" tier 4 that was mentioned in the Q&As?

In your opinion. My 100k dmg results and 60k ranked battles disagree with you. It can't be bad if people can get those results on a regular basis (Looking at no one in particular here...), so it is just a case of the ship not suiting you and your playstyle.

Even historical KGV doesn't fit at tier 7. The 14" are not as bad as you think, and can work at tier 8, just as long as the soft stats for it are fine (Accuracy, slightly above average RoF Prince of Wales as a tier 8 premium with limited MM would work well I think. Plus, you have to deal with the repurcussions of a Cleveland style situation, a ship out of it's time period. KGV would be facing Tennessee (as another 14" armed BB) at tier 7, and that engagement is only ending one way. KGV has the best armour at tier 8, let alone tier 7. A way to describe KGV is take a North Carolina, give it a lot of armour, and take away some it's armament capability, since their AA, health and maneuverability are roughly equal (speaking about a tech tree KGV). If you give KGV the 15" option, and take away probably KGVs biggest weakness, you arguably make the ship overpowered. Or, WG could decide to use the velocity values for new 15"/42 guns, instead of the used/mid-life values which they use now. The only gun in the game where those values are used if I remember correctly. Supercharges could help, but Vanguard is effectively a tier 9 ship in every aspect but the guns, kind of similar to KGV. Tier 8 premium is ideal.

Can confirm, Pensacola is good great superb bloody brilliant. It citadels BBs at 12km. And then burns them. Just learn the playstyle of the ship, don't be too aggressive, always take evasive action etc. and you will be fine with Pepsi. It takes a little time to get used to, but if you get it then the ship makes lists of those it has kicked the crap out of.

I got offered 24% off 3 days of premium, but I have never bought premium account while playing a WG game...

You complete the mission if you fulfill the criteria, and you get the reward. If you don't want to use those rewards then just don't use the Yokosuka port. You will still technically have them, but only through using that port Also, all 4 Kongos are done. 2 Myoko's in release, one in the game files, Ashigara, and Nachi to come after that. Takao was added in the files as well. Possible candidates that already have a model in game include Yamato, Musashi and Melvin, and many more characters that only appear in the manga.

I try to be accurate in my predictions. Maybe I'm too assertive about it. But I usually know a poor idea when I see one. Nothing stops WG from creating multiple premiums at the same tiers, and it is not like France has a lot of candidates for a tier 7 or 8 premium cruiser. 7 You could use one of the other 3 Suffrens since they differed from each other in quite a few ways, while 8 can be De Grasse. To make this ship balanced at tier 7 you have to roll out a bucket load of nerfs from historical stats, Cleveland style. De Grasse isn't a tier higher due to RoF and armour, De Grasse is a tier higher because she is better in Atlanta in most conceivable ways. Plus, a French premium tier 8. Bound to lead to sales, especially if, as the historical stats suggest, the ship will play differently and more comfortably than Atlanta. Interesting, since navweaps uses that book as one of it's sources. The other books probably disagree with it however, so that is why the higher figures are quoted.

September/October was mentioned for British (Light) cruisers.

I hate how the forum is trying to kill my post here. Since I can't be bothered to write out the paragraph again on the shells, I will just quote Lert from the NA server, when he reviewed De Grasse here. Basically, take Montana's secondaries and stick them on a cruiser hull.

Of course there are predictions, but these predictions are based on what the ship is. And the ship is an incremental upgrade on Atlanta in every single way shape and form. Hence why it should be a tier 8. No, De Grasse does not have to close into range more to be effective. Her shell arcs are much flatter, which means she can afford to sit at maximum, or medium ranges and pelt away, getting decent hit ratios, due to the quicker travel time. Think about it. If Atlanta had quicker shells. You wouldn't see as many Atlanta's trying to engage at close range, since they could get results at a safer distance. As I said before, WG try to use historical figures for the ships, so the ships length is taken into account when the turning circle is produced. So it isn't irrelevant. No. Maneuverability doesn't often save a cruiser, it is the players reactions. With a cruiser that turns better, you can leave it later than others when dodging salvos, so it is easier and more forgiving. A player who can anticipate dodging in advance can still dodge with even a cruiser with poor turning characteristics. You also have to take into account that De Grasse will probably have more time to dodge than Atlanta on average since De Grasse will be further away. At tier 8, De Grasse has above average maneuverability compared to the other tier 8s, as well as comparable armour to them as well. she doesn't have to be as maneuverable as Atlanta to be competitive. Otherwise you set the bar unimaginably high for every cruiser. Hence why you are over estimating it's value as a balancing statistic. Poorer Maneuverability is to be expected as you go through the tiers, and can't be used as a balancing factor in cases like these, otherwise you would be arguing , for example, Baltimore to be a tier 8 alongside New Orleans because it turns worse, and therefore can't dodge as well despite all the factors that make Baltimore a tier 9. Atlanta has 11.1km, which is usually heavily modified by captain skills. De Grasse should have about 3km more base range to work with, based on how higher up the rangefinder is on De Grasse. And then you add captain skills. This is based on comparing side plans of both ships against each other on a scale, so is a rough estimate, but is a significant increase nonetheless. Atlanta and De Grasse are in the same niche. Cruisers armed with a bucket load of DP 5" guns. Dido falls into the same category just about as well. But De Grasse is so much better at the job that Atlanta does, that De Grasse is a straight up counter for Atlanta. Since De Grasse can do basically all the jobs Atlanta can do with ease, better than Atlanta. With the exception of very close range DD hunting (I.e. 3km and below). And that doesn't exactly happen often enough to justify trying to separate both ships. (If you don't like that kind of ship, then you won't like the Tier 10 British Light Cruiser seen in development. Minotaur Design Z4A, armed with 10 6" guns that fire at 20 RPM, with poor armour compared to the other tier 10s) What sources are you using for the French guns? Most people use Navweaps (as am I at the moment), which combines characteristics gleaned from books etc.

I am the captain now! (Now then, how do I control this... *Rams Fubuki with flagship*) No mic?

The Main belt only covers the Machinery spaces, while the magazines are protected by an armoured box of similar strength as VC said. Weight saving and comparability are two main reasons for the turrets I think, and some thought was given to adding extra armour to them, although it seems that did not get into the design eventually. I think I could cover the other preliminaries and designs around Surrey at some point, those 5 turreted ships could be interesting.