Trainspite

Wrong gun. The gun meant to be arming the N3 and the designs before her was the Mk.II Here, this could be useful. It does have similar specs to Yamato's shells, though as Ramirez said, it could have a few decencies like Nelson's guns, which would need to be fiddled with to create a gun that doesn't feel slightly lacking for it's size at tier 10. You are not answering my other points either. Struggling a little?

Then what would you suggest you meant there? Eh? N3 being a higher tier than Nelson a mistake? Source for that please. I like to know how you can claim that, given your poor record so far, and that none of those 18" were actually built. And that the 18" would have a better muzzle velocity, and shell weight than NoCar's 16", and that the British 18" has stats similar to Yamato's 18.1".

Sorry, but how the hell do you work out that N3 is at the same tier as Nelson. N3 is a solid tier 9 candidate, on account of her poor speed and flexibility. Nelson just doesn't compare. In ways, Nelson is an improvement over N3, hence the changes to Nelson from N3, but to think that those make a ship from being a prospective tier 9, to a ship equal to one bound by a treaty (tier 7) is ludicrous. It is no 'mistake' that I placed N3 above Nelson. N3 is better in the ways that matter in game. Next 'mistake' for me to correct please... (Acutally I guess this gives me good enough excuse)

Oh dear.... Point out those mistakes and I will answer you: And really? N3 is always going to be above Nelson. I don't see why you would ever try and compare N3 (9x 18", 49'000t standard, 15" belt) to Nelson. N3 is not a scaled up Nelson. Nelson came about because the RN could not build G3 and N3. Hence, Nelson takes the guns from G3, and puts them on a Battleship that includes many of the aspects from N3. Interesting to note that F2 and F3 are the equivalent Battlecruiser designs of Nelson, when the RN was considering what to build with the two 16" armed ships. Also noting: O3 is Nelson, P3 and Q3 are Nelson preliminaries.

I'm not trying to do that. I'm disproving your mistaken beliefs on KGV. You are not making any coherent sense really... Unless you are trying (and failing) to troll me since you mistakenly believe I am a fanboy/Royal Navyaboo/RN is greatest ever. Also interesting to note I have always rated KGV a tier 8, as seen by my RN tech tree.

Oh. A list of RN ships that sunk in WW2? I can do better, but are you trying to achieve here? Rodney is tier 7 premium material, and Nelson a tier 7 slow BB.

Some kind of provocation? I mean, Bismarck got sunk, so did Roma... Oh, and Yamato... The unlucky Prince of Wales (1st torp hit - read into it) - is not alone in being a 1930s BB getting sunk. Image tax:

I really want to reply to him again. I have a response ready, but I'll refrain... (Unless he starts it again)

*Looks at the previous pages* Sure you are completely right...... I definitely did not produce a post on the other characteristics of KGV that seems to have gone completely over your head. The thing that is clear here is that you simply do not know what you are talking about. You have not done your research at all. Call me a fanboy all you want, but at least I can support my arguments, and have an idea of what I am talking about. You just see 14" and automatically assume that it can't be tier 8. What would happen, if theoretically, those 14" guns had better performance than the 16" guns of Iowa and Lion? Would you still try and cling to the idea that 14" means tier 7? So when those 14" have stats similar to the 15" of Vanguard, why do you rate Vanguard tier 8 and KGV tier 7? Personal preference, or reading bad/outdated sources? It's a tier 9 ship in every regard (Not tier 8 - Ashoka has no clue what he is talking about), being the contemporary of Iowa, except for the guns. In simple terms, a Lion, minus the 16", and replaced with aging 15"/42. The same can be said for KGV. Lion with 10x 14"/45.

If you can only resort to that... You have produced a shamefur dispray, go commit sudoku now. You bring great dishonour upon yourself. /close thread

Then you are just not knowledgeable enough. The USN empirical formula stated on navweaps, doesn't hold up too well. I'm not expecting you to understand this, but then I didn't at first.

Well, WG take liberties with it, full load but with a standard or even trials load speed. It is just one way to get an upgrade path in terms of HP etc.

I'm going to tell you to [edited] in a minute... constant denial of facts, logic and rational thought on your part is getting on my nerves. Continue believing your own sweet way if you want, but I can't take you seriously if you can't back up anything you say, and then continue to say it as if it is fact. The 14" gun in game will perfom very similarly to the 15"/42 you see on Warspite at the moment. Similar shell ballistics, similar penetration (the stats on navweaps are incorrect, the USN empirical formula used doesn't stand up too well with those guns). All WG need to do is give a similar accuracy or even better than Warspite, and maybe an increased RoF, and you have what, for game purposes, is a better gun to work with.

But you are wrong, since for all intensive purposes in game, the 14" of KGV are just as capable as the 15" on Vanguard.

Ugh. Enough with the it is a tier 7. Stats show that KGV fits at tier 8. End of. 14" guns are no reason at all to try and place a ship down needlessly from where it is. I don't know why you seem to think that having 14" guns automatically means the entire ship, which in all honesty is tier 9 standard should be squished into tier 7. I'm just waiting for you to argue Vanguard should be a tier 7 now, since according to your logic, the gun calibre and older guns means that despite the rest of the ship being comparable to the other tier 9s, the whole ship is the tier of it's guns. Also, good luck getting your New Mexico to pen KGV. Good luck getting even Nagato to pen KGV as well.

Full load displacements are used for the top HP of a ship. Hence NoCar is around 46'000t, similar to what Amagi and Nagato are on full load as well.

Vanguard is a tier 9 ship in every aspect basically. Except for her main guns, which really begin to show their age when compared to the 16" of Iowa etc. - Even with supercharges, which only Revenge and her 3 surviving sisters got, the increased muzzle velocity may not solve the problem of having the same guns as Warspite at tier 9. The supercharges were issued because the Rs only had 20 degrees of elevation, so the range would be increased. If Vanguard had the better guns, like the 16" of Lion, you do get a tier 9 ship, quite similar to Lion. Historically, Lion as designed (and laid down) fits at tier 9, and there are studies from 1944/45 that fit tier 10. It may be disappointing, but Vanguard is not up to scratch at tier 9 with her guns. Lion fixes that really.

Vanguard can't really work at tier 9, without supercharges that were never issued. She is most likely a tier 8 premium, since KGV has the tier 8 Fast BB spot covered.

For a thread about Prince of Wales and King George V, there are surprisingly few pictures: So I shall fix that:

The tiers. That is the only thing. 2 Numbers in a game. Just disregard the different game, the different ship/tank, the different developer team, all the other factors that never occurred to you.

Different game, different Dev team, different circumstances. Almost completely un-applicable to this situation. Just be glad I'm being fairly relaxed about it, because others in a higher position than me may take a harsher stance on your views.

Simply stating the ship is tier 7 doesn't take from the fact that the historical statistics and how they translate into the game point to tier 8, and in some aspects, tier 9. The 14" guns are what holds KGV back from being a tier 9. Lion is effectively KGV unleashed from the restrictions put upon KGV. The Dev's agree with me. WG have previously stated KGV will be tier 8. And basically all those who know about KGV think she is tier 8.

Yes you would. Cleveland is a tier 8 ship, squished into tier 6 because WG wanted a 6" gun cruiser before Pensacola. The number of nerfs that Cleveland got beaten with to try and force her into tier 6 is quite high. (RoF, AA, Armour etc.). KGV is a tier 8/9 ship, and squished into tier 7 because some people whined that 14" would not be good enough. Similarity? Are all of KGV's advantages that could push her into tier 9 going over your head? If you gave KGV 16", you effectively get Lion (Indisputable tier 9). The result is effectively the same if you give her the 15". No disadvantages to the ship. None. The 14" armed KGV at tier 8 is a much more balanced ship, and it fits.

14" guns are lacklustre at tier 8, but are by no means to try and create a Cleveland situation where the rest of the ship is distinctly tier 8 material. You can't decide a ships tier based solely on it's gun calibre. Prince of Wales when compared to normal KGV has less AA and less HP, but WG can give her a unique gimmick or consumable, as well as a buff to the soft stats, like rudder shift, accuracy, RoF. See Arizona. Just because a few attributes are worse does mean the ship should be down a tier. A PoW premium would have 16 5.25", 7 20mm mounts, and 52 pom poms, compared to Warspite getting 8 4", 13 and 32 respectively. Giving KGV the 15" at tier 8 just makes her overpowered, as now the ship has literally no weaknesses. And now the armour, maneuverability and guns are all good to excellent aspects of the ship. It is also isn't the KGV people know, and so quite a few people will be put off by that.

Then why you do you think that KGV fits at tier 7? What evidence really points to that conclusion?