Trainspite

The counterpart is putting Arkansas/Stock Wyoming at tier 3. Have fun with that. Konig Albert was probably that tier 4 German premium BB mentioned as ready to go in Q&As a little time ago, May/June, which I hoped was Seydlitz. As for RN BBs. T3 - Deradnought, Bellerophon, St Vincent - No modernisation T4 - Neptune, Colossus, Orion - Neptune should be premium ideally, the other two regular, - limited refit, similar to the R class refits T5 - KGV (renamed to Centurion), Iron Duke - Warspite-esque reift (Mixed secondary battery, Queen Annes mansion), ideally both regular. Kind of what I hoped for the German BBs was the same, Kaiser with a limited rebuild, and Konig with a semi-full.

Apologies if I have been a point harsh on you Poster, but I trawl through the NA forums every day, and usually there is some whine thread about the USN cruisers being shite, and it does wind me up to see them constantly just point out that they should all be moved down a tier... because that, which I try to point out to them, is a pretty stupid idea, in terms of balance.

I unlocked NO a couple of days ago, but I don't want to go below the limit of 40m credits that I set as a hardline minimum for myself, since I have already bought Kirov, Ryujo & Colordao.... The only problem I see with NO is that she is very similar to Pepsi, and Pepsi in tier 9 or 10 games is not the best...

I doubt they will try it. Because Konig Albert is basically a tier 3 Nikolai as it stands. (In other words - overpowered as f***).

Light Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers being split into trees will happen, where possible. WG have basically said so. Plus, we are getting an entire line of British Light cruisers (Basically the entire line is 6" armed, the tier 10 has 6" @ 20RPM - Hence it is very reasonable to presume that dedicated CL & CA lines will happen. WG have answered questions on a USN CL line, saying it was postponed for now. As for the main proposal, WG will take their time getting the main nations in the game first, before turning their attention to it, hence why it is postponed, just like Tone & seaplane cruiser mechanics are postponed. The second CA line is certainly not a priority, but the CL line should be one of the first 'dupliciate' lines out of the bag. On the question of viability, WG are happy to leave it until the USN Light cruisers come out, from what I know, and their lack of action on all the whinging and whining surrounding USN cruisers as they are at the moment. Hence, simply giving Pepsi, NOLA & Balmer appropriate buffs is good enough. Which is actually what WG are doing. After they improve the AP normalisation in a future patch, they will start taking a look at the NOLA & Balmer, seeing if they need buffs. The Penscola preliminary is necessary, nothing the USN has is suitable at tier 6 without considerable buffing, or considerable nerfing. The USN tree is very top heavy, from tier 7 to 10, but at lower tiers, they struggle. Hence we have paper designs, like Phoenix & San Antonio (whatever name you want to give it) - and it also explains why Chester has somehow ahistorically gained a couple of guns. Well, aside from that WG have said Cleveland is a tier 8 in some Q&As, her stats fit in. She is not exactly a better ship than Kutuzov or Chappy. They are better long range fighters, while Cleveland is a short range brawler, which, in the high tier long range meta, means Cleveland is in a little bit of trouble. Cleveland has the better armour and RoF, and AA, and maneuverability, but the Soviet cruisers can reach out and touch you with HE reliably from a longer range. Cleveland can't do this at all. Plus, I don't see why you think Cleveland with her shell arcs will work at tier 9 when Baltimore with hers doesn't. As for playstyle, Cleveland plays closer to Worcester. Simple. 6" spamming cruisers. Des Moines is close, but there is a significant difference in playing between a 6" and 8" gun cruiser. Look at the Russians from 5-8. They are a completely different kettle of fish. The size of the guns affects the playstyle, hence you can't just write it off. Do you have a Pepsi? Do you know how to play it? You must be smoking something if you think she is balanced at tier 6. She is a very solid tier 7 cruiser, only held back by her detection range. Molotov is semi-overpowered at tier 6. Now take a cruiser, which is better than Molotov in almost every single way except armament, where they are roughly equal, and try and put that at tier 6. It is ludicrous. Just like all the NA folk who seem to think it would work. It won't. WG know it won't. As for Indianapolis vs New Orleans. I rate Indy a tier 7.4 and New Orleans a 7.7 - New Orleans has better armour, better armament etc. - and while she will never be the best tier 8 cruiser, she is not exactly that bad, and works well enough. She is just a little too similar to Pepsi & Indy to be an above average tier 8, hence, a RoF buff etc. - because trying to increase the already horrific power creep by putting another tier 8 cruiser at tier 7 is very, very bad for game balance. Myoko (Tier 8.1 or so) is already overpowered, we don't need to try and push every single cruiser in the game down a tier., which is what your suggestion hints at. Balti at tier 8 is same as historical Cleveland at tier 7. There is a trend that the 8" is usually a tier ahead of it's 6" counterpart. Example - Balti - 9 Cleve -8 or County 7, Leander - 6 (Although 5 with this power creep). Aoba -6, Agano -5. Trying to move USN cruisers down a tier based on statistical performance will not work. Simple as. And I can't make that clear enough. WG have shown no consideration for it, and are looking the other way, in terms of buffing the said cruisers. Which is the sensible thing to do if they want to halt the power creep and preserve cruiser balance.

Cleveland is a tier 8 CL, hence doesn't exactly fit in a CA tree, squished in between two mid-late war CAs. Moving Pepsi, NOLA & Balmer down a tier creates a lot more balance problems, and solves basically none. Pepsi at tier 6 is death to balance (Pepsi is fine at tier 7, trust me), New Orleans would be the best tier 7 for miles around, though OP Myoko (Still has it's tier 8 stats) could give her a run for her money. Baltimore is no contemporary to Hipper, or Mogami. - Alternatively - Give Pensacola her historical C hull. This lowers her detection range, gives her a little more AA, and could increase her range. There is a link to that thread which me and piritskenyer produced in my sig. However, Pensacola currently is a very very good little cruiser, for killing other cruisers. Her detection range lets her down however. - New Orleans, according to her statistics, should be fine, but she is shafted by higher tier games, when she is very similar to Pensacola (Better armour, RoF, detection, not a lot else). Hence, I would only suggest giving her a RoF buff. From 4.3 to maybe 4.5 or so. Otherwise, aside from soft stat improvements, there is not a lot you can do. She is still tier 8, just an average one, that doesn't like being up tiered. - Baltimore has the best hull of any tier 9 cruiser. Best armour, meaning she is quite tanky and good at close range. The thing that lets Baltimore down and causes a lot of players to complain while playing her is her armament options. One has usable shell arcs for Baltimore's extended range (avec module), but with a worse RoF than New Orleans, hence I would buff the RoF on those guns to at least 4.5, preferably a little more. The other option is her super heavy shells, with their pretty awful shell arcs at long range, but excellent AP potential. The RoF should be increased here as well. Maybe to 5 or so. Those options above preserve the balance as it is, and doesn't create an OP Pensa at tier 6, OP New Orleans at tier 7, or out of place Baltimore at tier 8. Now onto Cleveland. - She belongs at tier 8, with her 10 RPM, her better AA, and armour. When a USN CL line comes around, that is where she should be. Her place at tier 6 would be taken by one of the Pensacola preliminary designs, which have 35 knots speed, torpedoes, and 6,7 or 8x 8" guns, in different layouts. That keeps the progression nice and easy, following the path of the USN's cruiser development. Cleveland would fit in between Brooklyn and Worcester in the CL tree, which starts with the latter at tier 7, branching off from Pensacola. Notes: - For progression New Orleans is moved to come after Northampton, hence the Pensacola family progression. - Wichita takes a place at tier 8, that New Orleans had. - The New CA & CL lines start from tier 7. Oregon City is effectively a slightly more efficient Baltimore, that WG will have to differentiate from Baltimore a little. - Vallejo, is a Worcester with the proposed triple turrets that fire at 20RPM. Nerfed to 18 or so for game balance, and with only 4 turrets, since the hull would probably not take the weight of 6 triples. - Brooklyn would not have her RoF of 8, possibly between 6 and 7, to prevent her from being overpowered.

Deutschland is more of a tier 7 cruiser to me. D Klasse is slightly bigger and better, hence tier 8 cruiser. P Klasse could be the tier 10 of a German Panzerschiffe/Armoured cruiser line.

Apparently a Battleship. In a Malay themed event. Hence there are two main suspects... Maybe that can motivate me to get off my arse and attempt to play the game.

[edited] They suit a slow player like me just fine. Combined with the recent events, I kinda like these events. x3 XP would be nice, but not essential at all. Mind you, I should know better than to read through this, I have a simmering disdain for the people whinging in this thread.

Myogi is excllent if you can play her right. And she is the fastest BB at tier 4, so I don't know where you get slow from... A lot of people don't like Myogi due to her inaccurate nature, having only 6 of the largest guns at tier 4. Kongo is an improvement to 8, though I don't exactly like the Kongo much. But for the most part, Japanese BBs after Myogi are no less slower or poor at turning, but have better gun stats.

Well, the Japanese BBs never started with their historical stock hull so... I'm guessing the German BBs will in time, though I wonder why they have not given Kaiser hers, considring they modeled it...

I'm pretty sure that this is not going to happen. Not like that anyway.

I would say Tier 6, since it is fairly comparable to Nurnberg. You can give the cruiser 12 RPM to make up for the lack of a gun, but M has a more flexible turret layout, and is faster.

You are not a spokesperson for all BB players. Yes, getting citadel hits is what they aim for, but aside from that people look for different things in a BB, so it does not completely revolve around the guns in a BB. Some people look for speed, some look for armour. Poor accuracy just means that German BBs have to be a bit closer, which is not bad for them, considering they basically have the best armour until tier 9, and decent secondaries. They would play similar to North Carolina, minus AA, but with better speed and armour I would imagine. And North Carolina isn't bad. There may be a few annoyances in the line, going by the stats seen, G.Kurfurst doesn't look too good, and Gneisenau could turn out like a tier 7 Myogi. Though I loved Myogi, so it depends in taste. Just hold your tongue before saying the German BBs will be crap. Accuracy is one of the factors WG have chosen to use as a complete balancing factor, where they don't use the historical parameters at all. Look at Kirov, Molotov, Omaha & Pensacola. Their guns, close together in their turrets, should have horrible dispersion. Yet they don't. Like rudder shift, WG has full control over those values, unlike say Displacement/HP, RoF & shell velocity, though they edit it where they feel right. (Hence Aoba's mega RoF buff, Colorado's HP).

Feelings? Though I can't say much, it is not all as you fear. Numbers can be decieving, the only way you will truly know if the ships are crap is if you play them yourself. Warspite is ridiculously troll with her accuracy. As simga is only horizontal despersion IIRC. One minute you can be landing accurate hits, and the next you can't hit a thing. The accuracy is a fickle thing, and is not reliant on one number. Fun depends from what you see in the game. For a BB it is big numbers for the most part. Though being tanky and being able to bully others is another part. Destroyers can get satisfaction from a devastating topredo strike, and carriers from a well co-ordinated attack, and their huge influence on a game. Different people see different things, and you can't speak for all of them. Gunfire is fairly fun and simple, but is not the sole source of 'fun'. It is never as simple as you think.

Well, I think I know a little more on how the Germans (especially BBs) play in game...

*cries inside* - If only I could have won this... Team was failing, and had lost all caps, and I was heading south after demolishing their Hiryu & Myoko, to get B cap back on Fault line. Kongo & Yorck ahead of me. Set the Kongo on fire, then turn my attention to the Yorck 6km away from me, dodge his torps, and I got no citadels on him until my final salvo. If I had got 1 or 2 before, then I could have saved the final 5k HP hit he put into me to deal with the Kongo, but I was left on 800 health, and the Kongo (who had only 4k HP left) easily put a shot into my bow to do that. Either way, That, and their DD or other Yorck capping my teams last base made up for the points I clawed back for the team. Is of sad now. The only bad thing about my play is that I spent about a minute trying to unstick myself from an island, otherwise, it was pure Pensacola.

True, though Strasbourg's guns are nothing to be sniffed at.... - I guess it could equate to some kind of slider scale, the 4" belt difference is paid for by punch 16" rather than albeit excellent 13". Depends... is he to be trusted?

I know, she would have poor armour, but then again, look at Lexington ;) Strasbourg at least beats one ship at tier 7 in terms armour. And most likely Alaska, O Klasse & B-65 as well.

Well, the armour certainly isn't good, but is definitely not as squishy as Dunkerque. Soft Stat buffs, and Strasbourg can make it at tier 7 I think. She may need a fictional refit along the lines of Richelieu for her AA, and HP, but otherwise, she should be perfectly capable. (Those guns slice through BBs....)

The same could apply to ships like Zao (Insane firestarting, invisi-fire, fast). Zao is arguably the best tier 10 cruiser, but is she OP? The Russian DDs are not exactly OP per se, it takes a lot of experience to play them effectively. Also the stats for Kebabovsk will probably start dropping as lesser tactically able players who didn't spam grind them reach the Kebab, and find how tricky she can be to play, though they might have mastered the playstyle after Kiev, Tashkent & Udaloi. Though since the Russian DDs are not very popular, the stats may not decrease. Plus, Udaloi is better tier for tier from what I can see.

I disagree, though I can't say anything.

Regarding the lead ship, WG are splitting the class in two so to say, based on the fairly large differences between Dunkerque & Strasbourg. Think similar to the situation with Nurnberg & Liepzig. So a French BB line is definitely around:

Near enough to the USN Cruisers, maybe slightly worse, then slightly better in different cases. (E.g. Cleveland > Belfast, but Minotaur Z4 > Des Moines - or maybe Leander > Omaha). Hence, for the most part, equal. So my predictions would be: Black Swan/Bittern > Erie Topaze = Chester Cambrian = St Louis Danae > Phoenix Leander/Arethusa > Omaha Swiftsure/Ceylon < Cleveland Southampton < Penascola Edinburgh & Belfast > New Orleans Minotaur Z2 > Baltimore Minotaur Z4 >= Des Moines

Aww.... D: