Trainspite

Agincourt is quite squishy compared to Wyoming and Kaiser, and she has the same speed as those two. Therefore she can be quite easily taken out of other BBs, but she has that massive broadside in her favour. Not really, the 3 incarnations are basically this: A hull - Hood as built. 5.5" Secondaries. Poor AA. B hull - Hood as sunk/war condition. 4" DP Secondaries, mediocre AA. C hull - Hood post refit. 4.5" DP Secondaries. Excellent AA. Increased armour. Possibly overpowered for tier 7. A fully upgraded Admiral is effectively a fully upgraded Hood, and Hood is the lead of the class. That is Hood's refit you are giving to the Admiral remember. The equivalent is this; theoretically if QE was sunk before she recieved her refit, she would be the premium, and Valiant would be the tech tree ship. It doesn't quite work like that since quite a few ships get upgrades they never got, that a classmate did. Clemson for example, only 2 of her sisters got those double 4" mounts. Yet Clemson gets them. And Fiji. Fiji was sunk in 1941, but the Fiji in game has a late war/Korean war hull. But Fiji is there because she is the lead of the class. If you assume the admirals were built, and then got upgraded as well, you might as well assume Hood was not sunk and got her refit. Tirpitz survived and got upgrades. She is also slightly fatter (heavier). Like extra AA, and torpedoes. Basically, read. However, Tirpitz having those torpedoes makes her gameplay different to a decent degree from Bismarck, which is the secondary specialist. Now, comparing the Hood and the Admiral, mr3awsome pointed out the differences earlier. the cancelled Admirals are slightly wider, and hence 0.75 knots slower, but can turn a little better. The magazine changes probably would not effect the citadel area noticeably, nor would the cosmetic changes to the masts. The gameplay would be identical. Therefore WG can't really split the ships into two sub classes, based on those differences. If they were to make Hood a premium, they might as well have made Bismarck a premium and made even money. Since the difference in gameplay between Hood and Admiral is less than Bismarck and Tirpitz really. Nelson can't use all 9 of her guns at the same time in the manner you think of. As I pointed out earlier, to get X turret to fire, you still have to expose the same angle of broadside as Colorado or Nagato. If Nelson can use all 9 of her guns, the other two can use their 8. Which are better guns. Warspite doesn't have particularly good armour. About average, but nothing too special. A 15" gun get through her armour easily. Nelson would be worse at dodging, Colorado would have the better turning circle, unless WG give Nelson a very good rudder shift. Nelson's 2kn advantage is not much of an advantage when trying to dodge torpedoes. I would far rather have that turning circle that is 140m better or so. There is quite a difference between Nelson and Izumo. Izumo has better guns, better AA, slightly better armour, better range, better speed, better secondaries, has far more HP due to being a lot heavier. The idea that Nelson can compete at tier 9 is only said by those who see 9x 16" guns and 14" thick armour, irrespective of the guns actual capabilities. I doubt that would happen. WG would have to model both options beforehand, and I have a feeling they will model one of them. I personally think they should give the 14" some special AP abilities or so, like how the Royal Navy Light Cruiser line has. Though that is only if the 14" prove far too lacklustre as a normal gun. The 15" removes her one major disadvantage. And turns KGV into a ship that can do basically nothing wrong. Aside from WG nerfing her soft stats, she would simply not have a weakness, and would effectively be Lion with slightly smaller guns. You haven't read what I said before, Bismarck beats KGV in a strait line speed, in secondaries and gun range otherwise, KGV holds the cards. Better AA, Better turning, Better concealment. KGVs armour is definitely up to tier 9 standard, and would work at tier 10 on a ship that had a large advantage over the others in an area. Bismarck is not better in the armour department by some ways, even if she is a bugger to citadel, which is not impossible. And good luck trying to get the RN BB line to effectively fit into a gun calibre progression rule. It isn't practical for this line, and is likely to be ignored I think. N3 vs Yamato. Yamato: 27 knots. N3: 23 knots. Yamato 71'659t N3: 57'000t (roughly) Yamato: 16" Belt N3: 15" Belt Aside from that, Yamato has a more flexible gun layout, while N3 is gimped in the way Izumo is. Even with a rebuild that gives her better AA, better secondaries and a increased speed to 25, Yamato still holds the cards. L3 is a better bet. L3 is heavier than N3, has a better turret arrangement, is 2 knots faster without a rebuild, and is overall a better fit for tier 10. You must be a little bit mad to try and take an N3 that hasn't been heavily upgraded into a tier 10 battle and expect it to go toe to toe with Yamato and G.Kurfurst. Bit silly to say that, since the armament is thing that draws KGV down compared to her contemparies. Everything else is on par or better.

Ask a moderator, they will come around eventually. As for the question, (I use 1-1-1 set up) I often keep my bombers away, and in most cases you lure his fighter squadron with them to an almost certain demise. Especially with the buff to the USN Fighters ammo count, they can stay in the air for longer, allowing you to dominate his fighters. I often try and remove his fighters first off, then chase and harass his bombers. Maybe not the best tactic, since the Ryujo often gets some of his payload away, but when he is running 1-2-2, that would probably be the case anyway. I also play aggressively with the single fighter squadron and bully his planes a bit, though I have to be careful to not put them in a range of many ships AA. Often the Ryujo doesn't try and challenge me for the spotting of the middle of the map or so.

Yeah, I think there was a few differences with the masts as well. It is still a pretty small detail to split the class on though, kind of like shifting Southampton out for Gloucester. Given that they did not make Bismarck a premium I am hoping they can resist the monies. Scharnhorst isn't exactly encouraging, though WG were aiming for continuity I guess.

They should be different enough. One of the likely designs has the typical 12x 8" , but with a British flavour. She would also have very good armour, and torpedoes. I kind of hybrid between a Zao and Baltimore. The other design is basically the same, but has 9x 9.2" (234mm) guns.

(Post 1111. Is sad post).

Wrong. As I said, they will split classes if they think they are different enough. Look at Nurnberg & Liepzig, or Dunkerque and Strasbourg. They are effectively half sisters, and fit very loosely as a class, since they are substantially different from each other. WG will split the class if they are different enough. Like how Strasbourg has an 11" armour belt compared to Dunkerque's 9". Or Nurnberg being capable of 12RPM with her guns, while Liepzig could only get to 8RPM. For Scharnhorst & Gneisenau, Gneisenau doesn't get her original configuration, and only gets a rebuilt form that makes her very different from Scharnhorst and as built condition. Effectively half sisters or so. Hence, WG have split them like Nurnberg and Liepzig. This allows Gneis to be a tech tree ship in the same way Nurnberg is, since the lead ship of the that new class or sub-class would be Gneisenau. Scharnhorst was then put into a premium role since she had no place in the tech tree. For Hood and the Admirals, they to me, are far too similar to be seriously considered to be split. The differences would have very little impact on gameplay, if any. Cosmetic mostly. With that, there is no excuse other than money grabbing to make Hood a premium, unless you are pushing the entire Admiral class into that role. And that creates a few problems for a British BC line. Trying to have a Hood premium and a regular Admiral at the same time would be breaking the guidelines WG already have in place, and the tech tree has precedence over premiums I believe. (Example - North Carolina, as she is preserved, would make her a surefire candidate for a premium tier 8, but she is the lead of her class, so she gets regular status.) For Hood see above. Nelson as built and as served is not too strong for tier 7. She fits right in. Her guns are worse than both Nagato and Colorados, and she has the armour similar to Colorado. Her advantages would be that she is 2 knots faster than the US Battleship, while having a more optimal turret arrangement for offensive pushing. 6 Forward Firing guns, and having to only go at a slightly better angle to unveil the third turret. Her maneuverability is likely to be worse as well, since she is significantly longer than the Colorado, and even longer than Nagato. Expect 780m or so. The only case in which Nelson can be a tier 8 is if she receives one of her proposed refits, which would have replaced her engines, increased her speed to 25/6 knots or so, and replaced her 6" turrets with 4.5" or 5.25" DP AA mounts. And that could be suited to a premium Rodney more. In short, Nelson is almost perfectly balanced at tier 7, which is how it should be, her contemparies are at that tier after-all. KGV should also be alongside her contemparies, only her contemparies are the 1930s treaty battleships, hence that puts her at tier 8. And she is nye on perfect ship, except for her guns, which are what balances her. She has the best armour at tier 8 by a long way, the equal best AA with North Carolina, similar maneuverability to North Carolina, slightly faster than NoCar, her detection range would be quite low, and most other things would be average at the least. Her only real weakness lies with the guns she has, which are lacking when compared the other BBs at her tier. You take away that weakness and give her good guns, and you effectively have a tier 9 ship. Namely, Lion. 14" can work well enough at tier 8, if it is done properly. Compared to Bismarck, KGV has better armour, is more maneuverable, is 2.5kn slower, has better AA, is more stealthy, has less HP. KGV doesn't need those 15" to do damage, it can be done just as well with the 14". And with WG experimenting the the British cruisers AP recently, there is nothing to say KGV can receive the same. Vanguard is more likely to be a tier 8 premium, since KGV has a greater claim to the tier 8 fast BB regular tech tree spot. Vanguard would not fit in either the BC or slow BB lines, so coupled with the fact she is surplus, famous, and unique, she would be ideal as a tier 8 premium. There is one from 1945. - 59'100t Standard, 69,140t full load - 960ft (wl), x 120ft x 35ft - 9x 16" (Capable of 3RPM, and could recieve the USN 16"/50 Superheavy round) - 24x 4.5", 68 x 40mm - 29-32knots That information was taken from a post by Daigensui, one of WGs historical advisers, for lack of a better term. N3 is inferior to Yamato in basically all aspects, and is probably more suited to a tier 9 role in a slow BB line, with some degree of modernisation. L3 at tier 10, which is slightly faster than N3 and has a better/more practical turret arrangement is the more likely tier 10 in my eyes. That made me laugh a little, then I remembered how wrong it was, and it made me depressed. Also, I guess since some of you may not have seen it a few pages back, here it is again. (I really need to create a new RN Tech tree proposal thread since my old one got locked...)

I would think it would be closer to a 40 degree angle to get X turret on target, which does show Nelson's broadside, but nevertheless, 6 guns firing forward is plenty enough. Nelson to me, as built and as served, is a tier 7. Similar to Colorado, but slightly faster. Very competitive at tier 7 I would think actually. Rodney is also an ideal premium, at tier 7 in the condition that she punched the Bismarck, or possibly at tier 8 with one of the proposed refits that replaced her 6" turrets with DP 4.5" or 5.25" mounts, as well as replacing her engines for a better top speed. Maybe about 25 knots or so.

There are 3 distinct lines that can be managed. Slow BBs, Fast BBs, and BCs. Slow BBs. They differentiate at tier 6 and go to tier 10. Revenge, Nelson, ~insert tier 8 here~, N3 and L3. Speed would 21 (Revenge), Nelson (23), N3 (23), L3 (25). In exchange for that, they get better handling weapons and etc. Fast BBs. Basically starting from QE with only 24kn, then maybe an improved QE design, which goes along at 26kn or so, and could be a mix of Warspite and Nagato in playstyle. Then KGV, Lion 1942, then Lion 1945. These ships are faster, and probably what would be expected of the first line. BCs. Though they basically evolve into fast BBs with Hood, they are a very distinct line, with less armour for the most part all the way through, but are fast. I mean, just compare Invincible (likely Tier 3) to Dreadnought, and see how different they are. Likely ending off with K3, I3 or H3a, which are the BC equivalents of the slow BB designs (K3~L3, I3~M3). Of course these all would need a fictional modernisation, but they bring quite a bit of variety in. The only part where they could really be considered the same in playstyle could be the lower tiers, and while the BC tree is fine, the slow BB tree would need two similar ships, the T3 and T5. (St Vincent and KGV 1911). I would put the Russian Design in the tree, since Royal Sovereign/Arkhangelsk wouldn't exactly fit in the midst of the Soviet designs I think.

Not really. Multiple lines are a thing.

Or completing the metric truck ton that I seem to acquire from missions. I barely use them though. I must have 250+

Fairly good chance of it actually, at least in my opinion. Hood can't be a premium while the Admiral class is in the tech tree without WG going back over their rules on leadships being the tech tree ships etc. and deliberately going for a crash grab. Hood is the lead ship of her class, and in some documents at the time, the class was referred to as the Hood class if I remember correctly. Making Hood a premium would only be possible if WG can pull a Nurnberg-Liepzig or Dunkerque-Strasbourg with Hood and her never to be sisters, which is hard, since Bismarck and Tirpitz would be just as different in terms of gameplay especially. And if that was the case, why not make Bismarck the premium and earn even more money than Tirpitz? Hood ideally should be the tier 7 BC, and that should really be that. WG could introduce her earlier as a taster of the BC line and alternative to Nelson at tier 7 after QE or Revenge. In fact having Hood and J3 at tiers 7 and 8 as alternatives to Nelson and KGV can give the line some gun calibre progression, if they so desire to try and stick to that rule. Not really, KGV with the 15" would be quite overpowered without nerfing. Because then the ship would have no disadvantages. Similar to North Carolina in maneuverability and AA, slightly faster, best armour at tier 8 by a long way, and having guns that are by no means bad. The 14" being 14" is KGVs only real weakness at tier 8, if she had better guns you get dangerously close the the territory of Lion.

1- WG need to get some defined CL mechanics in with this line, or at least have them planned. As for how they are now; 2- They could if did not feel the need to put the extra modelling into the tier 2 to 4 ships. The Japanese DDs don't have them though they could be around at a later date with a tier 9 and 10 for that line. Kaba, Momi and Kawakaze for the lower tiers maybe?

Modelling the extra ships probably would have taken a bit longer, and wouldn't exactly fit in. It is probably better to leave them for a full release of the line. I think the only line I would recommend having a split/double line initially on would be RN BBs, since far too many people want Hood as a premium in my eyes, and cementing her place in a BC tree that would come later while not making the players wait for Hood any more seems a suitable solution. Then players would get a choice of Hood or Nelson after Queen Elizabeth. My guesses where these (3rd time I have reposted this...)

The tier 1 is usually going to be excluded, since it is usually a gunboat, and multiple tier 1s aren't a thing as of now. Well, you are going to be a little bit disappointed when we start running out of the lines that only have 1-2 paper ships in them. There are not that many that will do 1-2 design ships only. And WG/Lesta will need more content. Hence, I would suspect things like a USN BC line may turn up, which would be almost entirely a design ship line. A Japanese CL line would need design ships for Tiers 3, 6, 7, 9 and 10 for example. Compared to that, a Royal Navy Heavy Cruiser line including 4 design ships is quite timid. I don't really see any sense in not wanting the line, it is valid enough to be there, since the RN did still look into Heavy Cruisers, even if they never built more than 3 classes.

4 paper ships is only as much as the Russian Cruisers, I would say it's worth it. Also, the Atlantic Cruiser is in no ways a CL really. It just would not fit. It has about 4" of side armour, and brings 5 heavy calibre cruiser guns to bear. She is also pretty slow, 26 knots. Weymouth & Birmingham are CLs, but their designs lead onto the Atlantic Cruiser, and then onto Hawkins. Also, no nation will have CAs at those tiers really, so CLs would fill the gap.

If it pisses off the people who whine about them even more, then I might just support that.

But the USN has all the T7 premiums. IJN have none, VMF have none, and the Germans only have the Scharnhorst.

It does rule out a RN BC line though, which is bad.

This might have been explained earlier, but I am going to take a stab at it anyway. Alright, first off, the soviets did have cruisers. The design ships in the line are; - Orlan (Projekt 37) - Budyonny (Projekt 94) - Shchors (Projekt 28) - Dimitri Donskoi (1 of the designs for Projekt 65) - Moskva (Projekt 66) The rest are real. Light Cruisers (6"), and Heavy Cruisers (8") will be split into different lines, for nations that can achieve it. That basically means the Royal Navy can push out at least 2 Light Cruiser lines, and the Americans can manage one from tier 6 to 10. Japan from tier 2 to 8, but most other nations can't really manage it, and therefore have a mixed line where light cruisers switch over to heavy cruisers. Example, a French cruiser line would probably switch from the 6" armed La Galissoniere at tier 6 to the 8" armed Suffren at tier 7. Or the Italian line doing the same from Abruzzi to Trento. However, somehow Anthoniusii is thinking that because the Royal Navy predominantly focused on 6" armed Light cruisers, WG representing this fact is a sign that they want to make the British weaker. In this, he is severely mistaken. The British will get a Heavy Cruiser line, but the Royal Navy focused on, and probably rightly so, the smaller, sometimes cheaper, and just as effective 6"/5.25" armed Light Cruisers. If the RN had built quite a few more Heavy Cruisers then sure, the first line could be expected to be a Heavy Cruiser line, but the RN built a lot more Light cruisers, hence Light cruisers are coming first. The Light Cruisers were very effective ships. Read about their war exploits. Sheffield, Belfast, Jamaica etc. They are not particularly inferior to the County Class and 8" armed ships of other navies. As for a Heavy Cruiser line, it is fairly easy to plan out. Tiers 2 to 5 is the designs that evolved from the Town class into Hawkins, so; II- Weymouth - Probably a bit more heavy than other tier 2 candidates like Topaze. III - Birmingham - Weymouth with an extra gun basically. IV - Atlantic Cruiser Design B3 - I gave it the name 'Belleisle' - 7'400t, a 8x 7.5", 5 to a broadside. Probably the 7.5" you would find on Minotaur. V - Hawkins (Developed from the Atlantic Cruiser, which in turn was developed from the Town class) VI - York VII - Kent VIII - Surrey, Design Y, (9,900t, 8x 8", 30.25kn, 5.75" Thickest) IX - 'Benbow' January 1940 Design, (15,500t, 9x 8", 33kn, 6" Thickest armour) X - 'Hawke' February 1940 Design, (21,500t, 12x 8", 33.5kn, 7" Belt) Another Branch can lead off Kent to form a sub branch. VII - Norfolk VIII - June 1939 Design E (10,222t, 8x 8", 32kn, 5" Belt) IX - 'Albemarle' March 1941 Design iii (16,200t, 9x 8", 32.25kn, 4.5" Belt) X - 'Drake' February 1940 Design (21,500t, 9x 9.2", 33.5kn, 7" Belt) Premiums would be London and another one of the counties at tier 7 and Exeter at 5 or 6.

I don't think she would get murdered at tier 7, but it does depend on the stats WG decide to give her, and I think it is a bit more likely they will use Duquesne or Tourville as a tier 6 premium, since one of Suffren's sisters has a tier 7 premium covered. I'm not entirely sure if the rangefinder on the tripod mast will count, but it should at least give Duquesne an excellent range. At tier 5 she would be a bit too overpowered I feel however.

No. Simply No.

Dammit, I be wrong. It is out of my age range, so I only came across it when I found it used on a video... Just wondering which news show would use it though...

For Duquesne, I would say tier 6, and tier 7 at a bit of a push. She is not as slow as that, since WG use a standard or trials load displacement for the speed, regardless if the HP is based on the full load or not. However, I would expect her to a premium, since La Galissoniere is more likely to be the tier 6 regular. Suffren & Algérie are fairly easy picks for a tier 7 and 8, with De Grasse as a tier 8 premium.

Which one? I'm going to guess the eurobeats...

Just wondering what time period post WW1 you would consider to be the end of the era. Maybe before the WNT? Though that could exclude NelRod.