Bear__Necessities

140k in less than 10 mins is low DPM now?? Ok.....

You also have to tally the potential damage available IN the game. A game with 2 Subs, 4 DD's and a CV will NOT yield the chance to rack up 200k compared to a game with 1 sub, 1 CV 2 DD's and the rest being BB's and cruisers. You either know this and refuse to state this, ignore this flat out in the hopes nobody else will think about it or are not as smart as you think you are.

So. The adventures of Salmon. While currently not hitting the same WR (though only slightly less than 1/3 of games played compared to Balao) It's damage is currently better and Kill rate slightly higher. Overall stats. Todays results. Some game post battle screens. Also Salmon has not produced a zero damage game for me so far.

I played the T8's last night. Wins are a bit tougher to come by due to being up tiered 7 out of evey 10 games. But the kill rate... Well. You have no issues sinking ships left and right. I did 2 Pensacola's in less than 2 mins because they dared to push with their DD. They both donated 2 kills and 50k to me and could do nothing back. I went on to murder 2 BB's and end with 138k and never once spotted the entire game.

I've lost 47 Karam points in less than a week. Just playing only subs. I think the "silent majority" are clearly making their feelings known.

Please don't judge me......

I just had 3 games in a row that perfectly sum up my time testing this.... whatever it is. 1st game. Zero damage win. Only able to send 8 torps. All negated by either island cover or my target was blapped before my torps hit. Everything ran away so I was left to scavenge for whatever exp I could get by helping cap the red base.... "Fun" 2nd game. Maybe the most effort required. Sneaky homing torp kill on an over extended DD. Then a whole lot of hide and seek and torp on a collection of ships all in ping range, while avoiding Shima dropped depth charges and Air dropped ASW. Any other class and I would have died, horribly at that. But As you can deep drop and wiggle, you can survive to strike back later when it suits you. Also not really "fun". 3rd game. A [edited]cake walk to my 1st 200k plus Sub game. Snuck through a channel. Got on the BB broadside. Pinged and torped with ease. Then chased down the CV for good measure. Sure, numbers look pretty. But sitting still pressing the 1 and 2 button is so far from engaging that I actually just felt pity for my targets. They had to not only contended with a CV targeting them, but relentless incoming fore from my spotting AND praying they had a DCP spare when my torps got close. Which they didn't coz I timed my strikes to cycle between their DCP cools downs. Horrendous implementation across the board. My overall stats in 59 games now. Almost nothing special about it, apart from the ease of winning. Solo and div'd. Low damage compared to the other T10 classes. Meh capping percentage. Average kill rate. And yet. They break the game not by being OP. But by destabilising the way the game normally flows. A CV & Sub heavy game stifles everything good and fluid WoWs has going for it. Both the epitome of boring 1 click adventures.

Right, I'm home from work now. I'm going to link a replay or 2 for each of the 3 ships. Have a watch of them. Then if you want to ask question on why I do what I can do I can explain. I feel no need to list other things as there is already some great input in this thread. So I can only answer from a personal playstyle and understanding point of view. Shima 1: Shima 2: Yugumo: Kagero:

I also potato occasionally too :P

At work currently. Happy to offer advice on all 3 as I've just recently reground them from scratch and have replays to offer also. If you want that is. Stats link to validate my words: https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1036458028,Vasili_One_Bonk_only/

Simple poll for those who have now tested subs in ranked/randoms. How many sub games have you managed zero damage in. Add why you think it happened/happens if you can. (can add replies now )

That's also one of my worries. Because they will clearly get lots of feedback about this.

It's also due to MM. CV, 2 subs and 4 DD games means there is not enough HP left to normally farm. Where the kills are usually either through Sub v Sub or taking out DD's or cruisers. BB's are harder to kill but where the majority of the bulk damage comes from (unless your me who's nabbed 5 CV's now :P ) Yes. Anything that makes them harder, or more boring will lower numbers, maybe to or below CV's. Honestly, I've not delved that far into thinking that yet. I just decided to test them because I was told my opinion would mean nothing otherwise :P

They really really really are feast or famine. I've never had any game in any other class were I've gone the entire length of a game and not done zero damage or felt such low impact. In subs? At least 6 times now. And yet? I can knock out a 4 kill game with 180k right after a zero damage game. The consistency is just not there. It's the opposite of CV's. A CV can exert influence with minimal effort. A sub has to put in way more effort to exert influence. However when in a division, that's when the sub play really changes and shines. Which is not a good thing either. I assessed the zero damage games after. And the single biggest thing is that having only ONE tool for offence, severely limits how often it can be used. It's the Indomitable situation, but worse. Once I factored in travel time, targets aimed for and the way each individual game played out. It was grim reading. Hence SO many people saying they are boring to play. If I can hit super unicum WR's of 75% and still have multiple no damage games in subs. I can only imagine the scaling when you travel further down the WR ladder. I currently average 60k ish in the T10 USN sub. That is far lower than most of if not all my T10 DD's that have significant games played. Yet I am averaging 1 kill plus a game and at least 25% of my teams caps etc. But that's not going to sell is it? I expect a buff or more, a significant buff to subs before they go live.

Imagine a better Zao on your flank. That's apparently the best way to play it according to some testers I know. But that's all they would say.

I could only see this leading to a massive sub buff to compensate. Especially due to the technical fragility and small HP of a sub. This IS weegee after all.

Does not mean they can't be....

A) For a ship to get close enough to a sub to use depth charges, it takes an absurd risk to do so. Not only from the Sub who has the advantage but also the rest of the enemy team can light up said ship as it's Perma spotted. It very easy to shotgun a DD with torps as it tries to DC a sub. B) It's quite easy to avoid any significant damage from airborne ASW tool.

Nah, BoW would have also down voted all of my posts out of principle.

Ohhhh so, you're playing the "silent majority" card in an effort to dismiss their own Twitch chat reactions, WG official polls, Reddit, YouTube and Facebook. Which amounts to masses feedback left by countless players across all the known platforms WG use and their players use. You are a joke.

Find me 1, just 1 single objective poll that shows subs being popular. Even better, find 1 made by WG themselves. I'll be fair and give you as long as the CV rework has been around to do so.

They are BROING TO PLAY and the are BORING TO PLAY AGAINST. There. I made it nice and easy for you to understand.

You can space out the timing to easily get a double ping. And with the Balao you can turn use the rear torps and then by the time you've re-turned the front set are ready to go. It's a constant ping and torp dodging game for all surface ships.

Which is why you ping. Send 1 torp or 2. Wait 15 seconds and send the rest. So when they DCP because they see torps, you can re ping them and slam them with 4/5 more after. Stop defending stupid broken mechanics.