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AeroWB

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About AeroWB

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  1. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    I am going to ignore your insult here. Approximate idea is mostly good enough, but not always. When there are islands left and right of a cap for instance it can be a matter of life and death as you want to move straight away from the radar source to get out of range asap. I still prefer to have radar need LoS and then this proposal can be scrapped but when WG keeps radar as is I want to increase my chances of being instantly killed and decrease the luck factor when you get detected by a stealth radar and there are multiple islands close by. You fail to distinguish between a cause and a similarity. The fact that what I think is a good solution makes the mechanic more realistic is different from me wanting this change because it is more realistic. Playing the realism card is the second example and not what I am saying. I however do like the fact that it would be more realistic but I don't use that as a cause. I imagine you have never been radar detected from a cruiser behind an island while a few tier X cruisers fire upon you. You can turn and shift whatever you want but you will die in seconds. if you have a team that spots well you might have known that radar ship is behind that island but you cannot spot everything alone and therefore these situations occur unless you stay 10-12km away from island until all radar ships are spotted or dead. Which makes the gameplay for a DD more passive and less fun. Another insult that is even false. The minimap shows you islands so you can use it to stay away from them. The minimap also shows you spotted ships, so you can stay out of their radar range too. The minimap does not show you the radar ship behind the islands, so lets assume WASD is your solution to that, well that might help (and does) however still too often you will loose almost all your HP and see my reaction before this one for an example. So my solution is the better one and the only working one though it is not fun. This solution is not a solution and will get you killed ore than you like. Somehow I have the feeling there is a miscommunication happening here :) The smoke should indeed work the same for spotting for two ships no matter which one is inside or outside the smoke. I believe it is that way now isn't it? The one inside the smoke has a positional disadvantage as it is reasonable clear in what area the ship is to anyone. While the one outside the smoke have a disadvantage in that all other enemies can still see him/her. In the discussion whether or not the current radar implementation is strongly affecting DD performance people are using all kind of arguments of which some are stupid and easily dismissed but more arguments are not as easily dismissed even if the might be false. So I claim that WR is not something affected by the current radar situation. Therefore people dismissing the idea of radar needing a fix that use the argument that WR is not affected are false. Now I use DD/CA K/D as that is something that I think can still be affected with this, however I claim it is not a strong case as a change in that metric might well come from something else or even if the K/D would decrease by 20% because radar it might still show up as a K/D increase by 5% as other things also change. You dismissed my graph and say that a 5% decrease is not enough, so I challenge you to come up with a better metric to show whether or not the current radar is indeed killing DD gameplay :)
  2. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    If more people start playing cruisers the K/D ratio for destroyers should not change, unless cruisers are really good at killing DD's and the radar ones are. The K/D line has gone down since there is a strong increase in radar ships so there seems to be a correlation. Unfortunately the data was missing for the first date I added. And even if the graph would go further back and show another DD decrease around the time radar started you can still make a valid argument about it being due to something else. Unless WG breaks something big time the stats will not differ dramatically there are too many ships and other constraints that will keep those stats somewhat stable. However I see many radar is not broken advocates talking about winrate, which should not be affected at all because of the matchmaking constraints and so KD is a better metric though still not very good. That is false as there is a skill that shows the direction of the nearest enemy and you never guessed it, there is radar. And I intend to keep radar in the game, just alter it so you can still find those lurking DD's Wow, I am worse because I prefer a better gameplay. You clearly confuse me with someone else or you did nor read what I wrote. I have never said that realism was any motivation for me backing the radar need line of sight. I only agree with that proposed change as it would remove the most problematic point for the current radar I think. That it makes radar more realistic is just a bonus. That is a good idea I think, with the current radar situation I would trade my smoke for a radar jammer any time but at least it would make you choose a strategy taht will influence how you will play I am sorry, you are clearly not able to understand what I and more people are saying. I do not know if that is because you don't want to or you can't as English is hard for you to read. Also what you say is factually incorrect so this adss nothing to the discussion i'm afraid. Please propose a useful metric instead Good to have you back! Me neither, when thinking about it this was the best I could come up with as a general statistics most ratio's will not change must because of the many MM constraints. At least I argued why WR is not useful and by that disprove all people saying that radar is not OP because WR is not changed. I guess thats the best result from this stats endeavor. Yes and no, I propose jammers to have short range and short timespan so you will be detected at the start and at the end. So you at least gave time to turn and start the escape. However its not a great solution. Radar needing LoS would be my preferred solution. They already have a LoS mechanic in place. So they can easily combine this with the current radar mechanic, so they spot you only when both systems give a thumbs up. (Obviously this LoS calculation should not be incluenced by smoke.)
  3. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    Well that is one way to explain it , however I see it differently. Some people tell me I need hard evidence, I give it and at the same time explain why I find it hard to get any graph that shows the situation at all and why I think not having a graph but a good explanation instead is even better. You really did not read my motivation on why I believe radar is broken. As I said before the current situation in which there are more radar ships is indeed temporary, though the number of radar ships will most likely stay higher then before the last update as there are simply more radar ships in the game. The problem however is deeper as there is no counter against radar ships that detect you through an island without you even knowing where they are while the enemy team is killing you like crazy and you try to get away with turbo and know that if you survive you cannot get into a cap before half the enemy team is killed. I never played the realism card. I only agree with other people because this fix will prevent the radar ships hiding behind islands. Making the game more realistic to fix a game mechanic is a good thing though, but its not a reason as gameplay is more important. Very simple, as a DD you have very little health and when you get spot by radar you need a chance to escape. So either make radar line of sight so I can see the ships that radar me and decide whether or not I go in range to attack them or get out of the way (unless off course I sit in my smoke a radar ships moves in pops up the radar and kills me so I deserve to get killed). Or when stealth radar is staying I need a chance to escape this thing, so the radar jammer will give me a few seconds to try and get out. That is an acceptable situation, as long as DD players have a counter to radar i'm fine. This is exactly the problem as very often you get radar detected without seeing the radar ship while the enemy team shoots at you with many ships and with the low health of a DD and long radar range you loose lots of health and often get killed. So the only way to prevent this is making sure you stay 12km away from islands and detected radar ships until all enemy radar ships are located or killed. On maps where the caps are close to another or you have center point this means you have to play very passive or risk imminent death, and both aren't fun. Smoke is countered by radar and that is fine, so seeing the ships that radars you from the smoke is not a needed fix. However stealth radar from behind island needs fixing and I think the best way to do that is using line of sight. If however WG does not want this we need something else and that's where I came up with radar jammer/detect radar ships when they activate the radar.
  4. AeroWB

    Delete the DD tech tree plz no one need them

    I had to laugh about the title, thanks. However I would prefer to keep my DD's though. The silver lining is that I am currently playing much more CA which I did not play a lot at high tier. With the current radar situation DD games too often end in frustration, you get lit up by radar by some one behind and island and five enemies open fire and kill you just before getting out of radar range with turbo on while dodging most incoming shots. I hope WG will fix this fast as I was planning to keep playing this game for a few more years
  5. AeroWB

    U.S New cruisers need Nerf immediately

    In a good game that is true. Unfortunately radar is exactly the problem in this game where there is no counter.
  6. AeroWB

    Game with destroyers in TIERS VIII, IX and X

    The problem with this strategy is that is not usable in most maps as most caps have islands close by where the radar ships can hide behind, and because of the long radar range getting out in time is often impossible due to the limited health you have and the time you will stay spotted. This strategy does however work very well with caps without island around. Yes, torping a Moskva with 10km torps is possible however you will need to enter the radar range or the Moskva must be coming at you, however in that case the torps will have an extremely low chance of hitting. in order to get a reasonable chance of hitting ships with torps, especially faster and more agile ships you need to torp them from the side and launch the torps as close as possibile to the target (to keep the distance between the torps small, and to decrease the chance of target changing course during torp flight) So yes this is possible, but the luck factor of hitting something increases enormously. Most likely you will need multiple launches to even hit a single torp. so you probably need the whole 20mins to kill one Moskva, not very efficient or fun. While it is true that radar affects cruisers too, it does only slightly. Radar range is between 9-12km and most cruisers have a detection range that is 10km+ so the stealthy cruisers are affect but very little. Cruisers in smoke are affected more. However the most important difference is that most DD's have a gun range that is 10-14km and a torp range of 8-10km so they need to enter radar range to have a chance of doing damage, while cruisers have a gun range that is much more than the radar range. Cruisers that rely on stealth and torps with a low gun range are however also affected and those are also less fun to play now, but the effect is less pronounced and valid for much less ships compared to DD;s. If WG fixes the radar situation for DD's it will probably also be fixed for those cruisers. You make a good point, and indeed radar has no penalty except that you might have selected another consumable type. At the very least radar ships should become visible themselves after activating their radar (this is also more realistic as using active radar will make you extremely easily detectable for any type of radar system). However I do not find this change enough as it still lets them stay behind the islands while the rest of team will kill you in seconds. maybe this combined with a radar jammer will help. I still think making radar need LoS dependant. With this change it will still work against smoked ships and as a radar cruiser you will need to risk your own hide to use this so DD's have a fair chance.
  7. AeroWB

    Game with destroyers in TIERS VIII, IX and X

    I am not sure what this has to do with the topic. Sitting in smoke is always a bad idea as enemy DD's will torp the smoke. No radar is needed for that. The problem with radar is that there is no counter strategy. What you can do is stay away from all caps, islands and enemy radar ships and hope the team will kill those radar ships. That is however not a counter strategy is just passive slow gameplay, not something that improves this game. All those people responding here that people complaining about radar should just adapt and learn to play better are blind for the real radar issue. This is probably caused by many earlier changes to the game where winers started complaining. However this time there is a fundemental issue with radar. Also win-rate will not be influenced by the radar changes as both teams can use the same radar and the number of DD's is equal in each team. So if you want to see the impact in numbers you best look at kill/death ratio of DD's, and yes those are down for DD's since the increase in radar.
  8. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    I agree that I do give my opinion, however I do not only say its bad or whatever I am trying to clearly explain why I think the current radar is breaking the game. The rock-paper-scissor example I used was meant to illustrate that for each strategy there is a counter that can defeat it. That rock-paper-scissors is an overly simplified version of the game mechanics in complex strategy games like Wows, does not need an explanation. Unfortunately while it sounded like a great illustration to me was lost on others. as they think I meant one class of ships is the counter to another. No that is not true and not what I meant. The basic idea I wanted to illustrate was only that for each strategy there is counter strategy. This idea is something that is very strong in competitive e-sports games like Starcraft and needs to be there for it not resulting in a game where luck becomes a major factor in the battle outcome. Wows does have some luck factors built into the game (like detonation, dispersion etc) but those are reasonable minor elements to make it more a tactical and skill based game. For me the fact that I have no counter strategy against stealth radar cruisers that hide behind islands and sometimes even shoot over the islands except slow play and hope the team kills those cruisers is very frustrating. I like new game elements that make you think of a new strategy or try something else. But when there just is no counter except play slow or get lucky the fun of playing a DD decreases enormously. And I do not need no hard evidence or data to know that the current situation feels very wrong, I want an honest chance against the radar, against the stealth firing cruisers that can see and shoot me while I cant do nothing back. I am playing this game since the Beta and I play regularly with different ship classes and I never encountered something in this game that felt so wrong and I need no hard data to know that. Before the latest the patch there weren't that many radar ships so the problem was not occurring that often nor did I encounter enemy teams with 4+ radar ships that could radar caps for minutes continuously, both effects combined make the problem much worse and yes this will hopefully fade away and the problem would not be so pronounced. That is a prediction that I can agree on with most of you. However I am sure the amount of radar ships will still stay higher than before the patch as now there is simply a higher percentage of radar ships in the game, and they are useful to. But to me this problem happening less often in the near future is not a solution to the real problem. I need a counter strategy, so give me a 10 second radar jammer to get out, or make radar need line of sight so I can at least see who can radar me if I move in to drop some torps. Now lets talk stats as this is something you find so important. First win-rate. I would expect that win-rate is not affected because of this situation, my own team can also wield the stealth radar or many radar continuously scan a cap radar strategies. And as the number of DD's in both team is equal I also would not know how win-rate for the DD's class would decrease significantly. With the radar problem I find the DD class to have gotten significantly weaker and less fun to play as you need to play much slower. So I would expect that DD''s will have less impact on the games outcome. As mentioned before that will not affect the win-rate as the number of DD's in both teams is equal. So what stats would it affect then? I think that as a DD your average lifespan will decrease as those radars get you killed faster or you are playing much more cautiously and slower and therefore the average game length might increase, though many DD's are often killed early game so I don't know what that stat will do, also I don't have those stats. Our much appreciated friend Culiacan_Mexico gave us a link to an interesting site (thanks!). So I put some of that data in Excel and made a graph of the higher tier ships for Win-rate and Kill/Death ratio. As I expected and explained earlier the win-rate is not something that shows the claimed radar problem and neither should it. The DD kill death ratio however did improve for cruisers while it got worse for destroyers. I do not in how far this is caused by radar or other changes or even compensated by other changes, but at least you now have some hard data that shows DD's doing worse. I think my explanation of not having a counter to those radars and this being the only game change that got me so fed up that I actually started posting on the forums while I have been playing this game since the Beta are stronger advocates to the current radar situation needing a fix, but that is something we can agree to disagree on I think. (I scaled the graph so the CV line is not visible anymore, as with it the other three lines basically merge as CV's have a K/D of 3+ average) Interesting, after I provide a graph all those "radar is fine as it is" people are silent. WG are you listening? Please fix this radar horror that is killing the fun of playing a high tier DD, especially on maps where the caps are close to each other and there are islands between the caps. Either make radar need line of sight or give us a 10 second radar jammer and at least make ships that activate radar visible, those options would make playing a higher tier DD fun again while keeping the new radar game mechanic that could have been a nice difficulty bump for DD's but instead has become an instant death trap too often, or makes DD play extremely passive.
  9. AeroWB

    Game with destroyers in TIERS VIII, IX and X

    That is all great, but often impossible, as radar penetrates islands and has a long range. So many radar cruiser park behind and island enable radar, if possible even shoot over the island, and I as a DD cannot do anything except get the hell out of radar range which is sometimes very hard because you do not even know where the radar ship is. So unless WG "fixes" the radar so it needs line of sight your gameplay suggestion is often impossible. This is why I mentioned the DD stealth firing which was also a problem with no counter available to the enemy. So it compares well with the current radar situation where the radar cannot be countered, the DD must run and hope to survive and wait until the enemy radar ships have been killed, which is not a counter, as it only results in a slow game where DDs do spotting, and staying away from islands, radar ships and spot only.
  10. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    Exactly my point, there is no counter to radar because you cannot get away with that few hit points and long radar range. And you must get into radar range to do something useful. I am not sure if you can't read or can't understand but the radar problem is serious, with all those radars and no counter you can only slow play and hope the enemy radar ships get killed before coming close. In post 123 in this thread I explained the problem and summarized it as follows: To sum it up: "The current radar implementation breaks the basic rock-paper-scissors mechanic for DD's" I am not advocating to remove radar because it is an interesting game mechanic, and yes it can help, but the current implementation is terrible
  11. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    You make an excellent point, even without radar there were counters against smoke, radar is not needed at all. Now I am not saying radar needs to be removed but it needs to be fixed. Unfortunately many people here think radar does not need to be fixed and they either tell the complainers to learn and adapt or boast about there own super DD skills or whatever. The problem is that this is totally beside the point. Any good game will have the well know rock-paper-scissor mechanic in some form so every strategy has a working counter strategy. in Wows like in most games it is somewhat more complex but essentially this is a valid comparison. DD's are a very important class in the game that are a very important part of team as they provide vision for the whole team, are the first to do capping and can do damage to lonely BBs and other groups of enemy ships that have a very limited spotting range. However DD's do posses very little health and have very limited gun power. With the current state of radar in the game almost all the dedicated roles for a DD are affected (except the torping of lonely BB's which is not a good primary role) and the problem with that is that is no effective counter strategy. Especially on maps with the cap points in close proximity and with many islands around the caps the stealth radar ships make capping almost impossible. The radar cruisers sit behind islands while you get spotted, long enough to get killed. So what are the options: -Kill the enemy radar ship. But how, you cannot see it and its behind an island, your teammates cant shoot it either so this is not an option -Run away and wait till the radar is over. Unfortunately you are very fragile and before you are out of radar range you have many salvos of incoming shells, trying to dodge these helps but increases the time you are in radar range. Sometimes you don't even know where the enemy radar ship is and so you have an even harder time to escape alive. Combine this with the current amount of radar ships per game and the first ten minutes of the game the caps are being scanned almost 50% of the time. getting in there and capping now has more to do with luck than strategy because if the radar comes on you are most likely dead and if you managed to survive the next time you wont as your health is already reduced too much. -Don't go close to the enemy, caps and islands, that way you can prevent getting radar detected and wait until the radar ships are dead. Well this actually works however this reduces DD play to scout only for the first part of the game and hopefully you can makeup for this lost time later on. However this makes the whole game slower and makes playing a DD the most boring ship class to play by far. The only damage you can do at the beginning is using long range torps and hope you get lucky. To sum it up: "The current radar implementation breaks the basic rock-paper-scissors mechanic for DD's" Its that simple and it immediately explains why so many DD players are complaining and why the current high amount of radar ships per battle increases the problem instead of causes the problem. So WG please fix this radar game breaking mechanic and at the very least lit up those ships that have active radar, even if they are behind an island so DD's know where to flee from and the team knows where to focus on. DD's nowadays can't stealth fire anymore which is a good fix, however this radar situation is just ridiculous and fixing it is so easy. Radar should only works with line of sight. That way radar is still a good way to detect DD's but at least then DD's can try and do something about it instead of hiding and not playing an active part. And if you don't want to do that give DD's a radar jammer that works for 10 seconds so DD's have a chance of getting out of the radar range alive.
  12. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    Even when such problems are infrequent normally it is better to fix it, because in the games where you get detected with cruisers behind islands you cannot do anything about it. You can play extremely slow and cautious and not come close to the islands but then you wont be able to cap or spot which is a problem for the whole team. Besides how often did DD stealth fire happen? Also not very often as there were very little ships that were able to do this in the first place. However WG fixed this in a smart and good way which keeps the game fun. The current increase in radar ships is not the cause of the problem itself, but it does expose the problem as it occurs very often now. So if WG implements a fix that makes stealth radar impossible (so radar is not able to penetrate islands, or in other words radar needs line of sight) the problem is fixed, radar is still a good skill but wont work when you are hiding behind an island as it should
  13. AeroWB

    Game with destroyers in TIERS VIII, IX and X

    Wow, why all the hate on the OP. As a frequent DD player I can only confirm the OPs feeling, now 2 more radar ships is not much, however combine this with the +10km range and working through islands and most caps can be spotted with radar cruisers that themselves are lying behind the islands. As a DD you cannot get into the cap anymore as often you will be detected by radar and killed in a matter of seconds while there is no game mechanic that can help you. The current radar situation is comparable to the earlier DD stealth shooting where a DD could shoot some without them being able to detect them, this was not fun so it was fixes so a ships detection range will always increase to at least its firing range after shooting. Putting a radar cruiser behind an island, preferably between two caps makes these cruisers able to spot DD's for a long time, while they had no idea you were there and they have now way of getting out as the enemy team is shooting at these DD's and killing them in seconds I think the radar game mechanic is good addition to the game and makes playing a stealth DD much harder, however the current increase of radar ships combined with the radar working while you are behind an island sucks the fun out of playing DD's as there is nothing you can do except staying clear from all islands for at least 10km and that means you cant cap and game play slows down. So even if the amount of radar ships are going down in time, the radar game mechanic is broken the same way the old DD stealth fire was an so it just needs to be fixed. I hear all kinds of reasons that this is too hard as people wont understand as its too complicated or its hard to implement, those reasons are all invalid as this game mechanic is already in the game to determine whether you can see someone or not and that exact same mechanic could be used to fix radar.
  14. AeroWB

    An EASY way to fix radar problems

    Ok, I am not posting much on the forums but I need to type this, the last few days I am getting so irritated with this game, and there is one reason radar. The amount of radar ships is increasing and so many times I am trying to cap a point in my DD and I get detected by radar I die almost instantly, 10 minutes into the game same, trying to get out in time, no can do. Often times these radar ships a lying behind an island and I get shot by many other ships without seeing them or being able to shoot/torp back. So I switch to playing BB, and what happens all DD are dying or they don't spot anymore, brilliant (not) Now a while ago we had stealth firing DD's, that was not cool so they fixed it, now the need to fix radar or this game is going to die as no one want to play DD anymore. It is becoming an increasing annoyance and I am almost unable to play nice DD games anymore WG fix this radar situation and fix it quick, radar is a cool addition to the game and really helps making stealth DD more challenging but all those cruisers with radar hiding behind islands while the rest of team is killing the DD is total crap and ruining the game. They only way to play a DD now is to go around any islands and spot those cruisers before they can find you with radar and hope your team kills those radar cruisers. DD play is not fun anymore. So yes please keep those radar forum posts going until WG fixes this stealth radar BS
  15. AeroWB

    New Japanese Destroyers

    I think compensation was definitely OK, maybe not perfect but also not bad at all. The problem I have is that I have only one reasonable IJN DD left, the rest was nerfed too much. Before the patch: Isokaze: Stronger than average Minekaze: Stronger than average Mutsuki: Below average Hatsuharu: Below average Fubuki: Average Kagero: Below average After patch: Kagero could have just been moved to T8 without any change at all and it would be OK. Now its below average again, Fubuki prettly useless not the stealth torp boat it was, useless guns, short range or slow torps, no stealth and its just crap. Unbelievable how they moved this ship 2 tiers down, nerfed the crapout of it and and made it a totally different experience. Hatusharu now part of the "gun" line must be a joke, its guns are bad, turn rate is too low, and after researching the upgraded hull you loose one of the 2 guns???????????? Realy WG WTF!! So basically as far as I've tried the new "Torp" line is not a good torp line at all and the first entry in the "gun" line is crap, thanks for the IJN DD nerf WG! Edit: New T7 from "torp" range seems OK though from specs. Maybe this will be the new above averge one?? Time will tell
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