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About TheCinC

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    Sub Lieutenant
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    Possibly behind you, you won't know until you check..
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    I'm a historian, with a broad interest in history in general, but in military history and military equipment in particular, and especially battleships and battlecruisers. War is bad, but one of the most significant events, and therefore worthy of study. We must never glorify war, or lose sight of the horrible consequences. Every life matters, war should be avoided if at all possible. But if we don't study war, and learn from our mistakes, how can we avoid making those same mistakes again?


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  1. Just got Cossack, did the mission for the premium container, got enough souvereigns out of it to get another 2, got enough souvereigns out of those to get another one.. Not a single mission.
  2. TBH wonder what Belgium thinks of this. You can buy the containers for actual money, which seems the same as the loot boxes from EA. I actually rather hope they don't run into trouble, because they do the same each Christmas and that's one way I've added to my collection of premium ship each year. AFAIK all you need to comply with the Belgian requirements is to make clear what is guaranteed to drop, so it is less of a gamble and more of an investment. For me, I tend to see it as the latter.
  3. Just finished the campaign, got all the containers except one (which required a tier VII or VIII RN DD which I don't have) and bought containers for all the souvereigns I got. Not one single mission, sadly enough. If I read it right, I either have to buy HMS Cossack and get lucky with the RN Premium Container, or wait for the next update..
  4. What's with the DD meta these days?

    I am a bit late to this one, but I'll add my two cents. TLDR; I don't recognize what you see, aside from Haru sitting in smoke and spamming HE, which is not necessarily a problem, and there are things you can do to make a smoked up DD useful. Long version: I mainly play DDs and since it was released have mainly played Haru, where formerly I mostly played Shima. I also play BB and CA, in that order, have played starting during CBT and have over 7000 games since the end of CBT. Anyway, I almost always push caps, if not truly always, probably taking way too many risks in the process. I know the game revolves around it, so that is what I try to do, often even in CA, sometimes even in BB. When I don't play DD, I try to support the DD players on my team. I also very often announce what I am doing, especially in a DD and try to adjust to what the other DDs are doing. I firmly believe you always need to push 2 caps at most in domination mode and try to go to the cap next to the one the other DD or most ships are going to, so I'll theoretically be able to get (more) support. I also try to avoid an AC push on most maps except on Shatter, where it's far to easy to deny B from a safe position and you hardly can get out once you go in. In Standard mode, I feel you need to at least start off defending, or otherwise you often end up with a two pronged attack, basically the equivalent an AC push, with one wing unable to support the other, and often one wing folding and the other having to pick up the slack against the entire enemy team, with predictable results. I am admittedly am at a loss how to get a (reliable) win in epicentre mode. Push in the centre, you get spotted and destroyed, don't push there and enemy has an easy win, push on a flank and the enemy camps the islands and makes you pay for every move you make. So with this, you know a bit about my mindset when approaching a map, which caps I go for. I try to rustle up support by announcing where I am going, adjust to what the other DDs and the rest of my team are doing if I think that'll work better, unless I feel they're obviously suiciding and it'll be better if I go elsewhere. More often than not, at least one or a few people just head off in a completely opposite direction to the rest of the team, cos you can't give away a cap for free guys! So that leaves you with less support, no focus, no strong push anywhere. As a DD however I need support, so I try to check if enough people in my team are in range and able to support me, then pick one and go for it, or, in Standard mode or Epicenter mode, I move forward and try to spot targets until we get a sense of what the enemy team is doing and start getting in kills so the map becomes more open to us. Far too often, support is disappointing, even on paper. IE, when I do it right, I've announced what I'm trying to do, we agreed on a main AB push, I've checked the map, teammates are in range to support me, I push a cap, should have support the instant something is spotted, or I am. The enemy somehow always seems to find the best spot to park a Des Moines or other radar cruiser, denies one or two caps from the get go, spots me by DD, radar, hydro, aircraft, or whatever, I get a hail of gunfire screaming towards and taking off half my HP or more, leaving me to backtrack, hopefully still with a ship underneath me when I finally become unspotted, then try to spot, stealth torp, or find a place where I can sit in smoke outside of radar range and do as much damage as I can. That kind of game ends up lousy, with me unable to do more than spam HE at the risk of taking one or two hits in return and sinking immediately. In the better cases, support is there when needed, we deal with one or two enemy DDs, maybe drive off a radar cruiser, I can push a cap. In other cases, I find the cap unattended, stay unspotted, cap it, get out as the enemy knows I am there and presumably is coming for me, will torp or radar me if they can. All too often the enemy team then starts capping it, while I am already out of the cap on my way to the next, enemy DD is unspotted, no one makes any attempt to defend, we lose that cap. If I am not out of the cap yet, feel I have a decent position, if an enemy is spotted, even an incoming radar cruiser, I then check the range. Range around 12 km, I am unspotted, someone should be close enough to spot them? Let's try to deny the cap. Smoke up, rain down hellfire on them and on any of their friends who also push in. All too often, the enemy is immediately unspotted, I am unable to do anything, am at risk if I stay in my smoke as I have to assume they will torp it, so I get out, having wasted a smoke. Sometimes, an enemy BB pushes me, alone, while spotted, so then hilarity ensues. HE spam happens, he gets set on fire maybe once or twice, if he gets close enough I try to force-feed him some torps, his only chance is if I get radared or torpedoed while I HAVE to sit in smoke in order to keep shooting and finish him. Otherwise he predictably either dies or retreats at the last moment, hopefully with a lesson learned. And this is where Haru really is effective, denying a cap to the enemy. Anything but a radar cruiser in radar range (looking at you Moskva) can be dealt with, with a little help (read: spotting) and a little luck (being able to dodge walls of skill) or a little cover (had a lovely game yesterday where I basically retreated behind islands after shooting for a bit, a la Des Moines, worked really well). IF someone else is spotting, Haru can smoke up and quickly rain down a hail of shells while taking next to no damage unless you get torpedoed OR they radar you and focus fire you. The first situation is good, don't hate on gun DDs when they're on your team. If they do their job right, they have a high damage output in little time. There's nothing wrong with that, they need that, cos their health pool is relatively low and if caught, they get spanked hard. So it can be a high-risk/high-reward thing, OR a high-risk/low reward thing, depending on skill, backup, luck. I have admittedly mediocre skill, would love to have reliable backup, and my luck is terrible. I've been noticing I get put on the team with fewer radar ships more often than the other way around and getting a team to agree on a capping strategy is like herding cats, it hardly ever happens. I also seem to suffer a lot from the spotting delay. Somehow, I spot something, but it does NOT show up for me, while they are spotting me and (seemingly) the entire enemy team immediately focuses me and the enemy ship spotting me gets ignored, while a full HP Yama gets the attention of my team. If I get spotted first, it becomes even more tricky, because then I often try to push in a little further, as Haru is not that unstealthy and I might be able to spot that Shima or whatever so we can all deal with it. But the enemy team can get their guns bearing on me, the enemy DD or CA knows his teams position and unless I have another DD handy, they know the position of most of my team as they are less stealthy than me and presumably already spotted. This is one of the riskiest things I can do in the early stages of the game, as I don't know the position of all the enemy ships, but I try to take the risk in hopes of getting a reward. Haru is pretty solid for a DD, so I can get out more often than not if the situation turns sour, but if I am really unlucky, I get immediately slapped and the game ends for me then and there. If it does pay off, I do have support, they are spotting my target for me, I might smoke up, shoot, deal with the enemy, then move on and cap. Smoking up and spamming HE is just really, really effective. Quite a few cruisers work similarly, sometimes using only AP (Mino), sometimes using islands instead of smoke (Cleve/DM/Worst), but still similar. Find SOMETHING that shelters you, spam at any target nearby while they can't shoot you. Running around shooting off your guns is more for the Khaba as they are faster. Haru isn't too slow, it is just not really effective for me at that sort of thing. If you do use this tactic in the right place at the right time, you can defend or deny a cap, or even do so much damage that you can retake it. I had a game a while ago where several ships pushed my Haru, while I was hidden in smoke and they were spotted. I did a ton of damage and we should've been able to turn the flank. Regrettably, my team pulled away and I was sunk, they did not push that flank, as I recall the enemy team won somehow. I do see other ships, especially Haru, using these tactics, but more often than not, with the goal of capping or denying a cap in mind. I don't see DDs running around refusing to cap very often and when they do, it is usually because a radar CA is installed on an island and the team refuses to flank it or even shoot at it. A DD just can't run into a radar CAs radar range, it is too dangerous. You don't know if the bloody radar is on cooldown, you don't know if an enemy DD can take over spotting you even if it is, the enemy CA or its support can obliterate you as you make your run. More often than not, it would be absolute suicide and pointless. Too often, my team does not seem to grasp how lethal a radar CA is and happily spams the tier X BBs, ignoring the juicy radar CA that, if its any good or lucky, can deny two caps at once with ease. Earlier this week, I had a game in which I pushed a cap. I was capping it, think I was close to getting it, when an enemy Mino popped up for a bit. He was ignored, despite an immediate call for people to shoot him. He goes behind the island on the other side of the cap, an enemy DD moves up to spot me, I try to get out admittedly too late, I suddenly am fired upon by everyone and their mother, I ended up spotted way too long and limp away somehow with just over 700 HP, am reduced to stealth torping and somehow make a kill, while the team sits around behind me and unsuccessfully pushing A on Okinawa, aside from one or two who actually tried. I had gotten down to next to no HP in the first few moments of the game, obviously I was too aggressive, but equally obviously, my team wasn't there for me when I needed it the most. Worse, people then tried to shame me for not capping and I got kinda pissed, telling me what to do when I had been doing EXACTLY what they wanted me to do, only to get punished hard for it, with no corresponding reward (enemy ships taken out as they became spotted while shooting me). In another game, there was a DM installed on an island, but NOT A SINGLE BB made any effort to flank it, so it just sat there, denied us a cap we badly needed. Again, as a DD, you just can't rush him, more than likely you just throw away your ship and give the enemy a free kill plus a cool couple of points. You then try to get people to help, do what needs to be done to turn the tide, but they are tunnel visioned or whatever and ignore you completely. In situations like that, I also tend to find a spot to park, smoke up, spam HE, try to deal with one or two enemy ships, in an effort to turn the tide. I can't push alone without support, but if I get rid of some of the opposition, maybe I'll get a little support or I'll get lucky and create an opportunity. I am writing this rather long winded post in an effort to show some of the situations that occur as I play DD and to show what I expect or want from my team when I play DD. I can imagine that for people that don't play DDs, it may seem very simple. You're impossible to be spotted, so you just sail into the cap, then we win. Nope, it hasn't worked that way in a long while, there's too many things to take into account. Enemy DDs or CAs in the cap, radar, hydro, aircraft.. If you push a contested cap without support, you're just ded and your team loses a valuable asset. So what can you do to help DDs be useful and help your team win? 1) Acknowledge or participate in calling the play (like AB) and don't frustrate it by INSISTING on going A or C alone in a CA or BB 2) Find a spot where you can support your DD, especially if you're a CA. That means, in effective range of the enemy opposition, or near an island next to a cap, especially if you're a radar CA 3) Focus DDs, CAs, BBs in that order. Retarget constantly. That BB at full HP is not your target, it can wait, if you don't hit it hard enough it'll just retreat and heal up. 4) If your DD calls out a target, then check if you can hit it. Often it is a DD or enemy radar cruiser that is giving it a problem or that may only be spotted briefly. Use that opportunity! 5) Be able to adjust to changing circumstances. If your team is pushing AB but the enemy team all went A, then A is a waste of time, but BC can be taken relatively easily, so do that. 6) Once you HAVE two caps, you're not there yet. The enemy WILL push, so be ready. I've seen quite a few games where we had a major advantage, only for enemy ships to push into B with no one lifting a finger to stop them, except a DD that then was overwhelmed. I've been that DD too often to count. This is really, really important, because if the enemy takes that B cap, they no longer have to push and few people seem to understand that. They can now just sit back, watch YOUR team try to ever more frantically push B or make a push while the team is spread all over the map, or even just sit on their asses and let the points tick up for the other team! NEVER allow the enemy to take a cap previously owned by your own team without at least checking if you can do something about it. 7) If you DO see your DD smoke up, see if you can spot something for it, especially if it is a Haru, or, if you're already spotting something in its range, keep spotting it and if possible, gang up on it together. It'll make smooth sailing. If it is smoking up in desperation, to avoid getting killed, see if you can make its life easier by taking care of the threat. 8) In short, this is a team game, so we all need to work together, so add to your teammates strengths and make up for their weaknesses.
  5. I got about 5 or so from the missions, making decent progress on them.. But so far, No and No. *sad boop*
  6. I haven't played a single game since the update, just finished installing and now downloading driver update.. So no. But not voting until later.
  7. Advice for a noob

    Take a look at the topic linked in my signature. It has tons of advice from experienced players, after the OP that I wrote myself.
  8. Submarines ingame?

    Not saying it can work, just saying that so far, they've been struggling to make their original vision work, are on the cusp of hopefully getting it right, then announce they're considering doing they've always dismissed out of hand or at least said was really unlikely. If they pull it off, I'll be the first to applaud them, but I am not immediately enthusiastic to say the least.
  9. Submarines ingame?

    I am not enthusiastic about this. WoWs was intended to play rock, paper, scissors, each class of ships cancelling out another. From the start, it hasn't really worked that way. Look at what happened to Shima, look at the long overdue CV rework. So now, with the CV rework finally in sight, they even contemplate implementing another class of ships? If they were wrong about their original vision and can barely make that work, how can they deal with upsetting the balance by adding a fifth class? I really hope WG makes sure the CV rework does what it is supposed to do, then reflects long and hard on adding Subs. Because at this stage, I am very worried they'd get it wrong. Submarines played a relatively minor role against warships anyway, they were never meant to deal with enemy warships, they were meant to wreak havoc among enemy convoys and then slip away undetected. On the surface they were too vulnerable, submerged they were too slow. I think WG got it right in saying they'd never be in the game. I can think of many ways this could go wrong, few in which this could be done right. In a Halloween game mode, in an operation, as static area denial, sure. But not as a playable class of ships in randoms.
  10. Wee Vee gate

    I really want an upgraded post-Pearl Harbor BB that was built before WW2. Just so I can recreate this picture:
  11. This is nonsens

    @barbabarbaNo offense, but that is poor positioning. I see it all the time. A BB player goes off on his own, thinking he has tons of HP and plenty of firepower. I warn off the BB player, they go on ahead, end up sunk in seconds once they are spotted and engaged by the enemy. Or they push into the enemy with a few ships in support, despite the enemy clearly having an advantage. Their companions die quickly due to their lower health pool, then suddenly they are focused by a few ships at once and lo and behold, they're toast, or at best, escape with a few HP left and are afraid to join the action for a few minutes at least. Either case, the team loses precious ships and has a harder time to win. Don't blame Haru, blame the lack of teamplay in this game. People don't try to work together, don't focus one or two caps, or at least not the ones agreed on, then it becomes messy and people find themselves struggling to shore up a flank and losing. And it is NOT about damage, it is about caps, few people seem to understand that and WG has been having trouble getting people to understand they are the main thing in the game. People almost always focus on dmg, but dmg means nothing if it is on the wrong target. All too often, you see BB players desperately trying to nail an enemy BB they have little hope of taking down, instead of the radar cruiser harassing their DDs, even though it is RIGHT THERE and on low HP. Games like that end up with the friendly BB sunk, the enemy BB healed up, the friendly DDs dead and the enemy radar cruisers victorious. It is still rock, paper, scissors, not as well designed as it should be, but it is still all about that. There is so much tunnel vision in this game, I am guilty of it as well, I admit it. You need to check the minimap consistently and retarget, reposition, refocus according to the changes that happen during a game. All too often a team rushes a cap, finds the entire enemy team there, then proceeds to try and slog it out instead of switching to the (nearly) undefended caps while fighting a rearguard action and making the enemy team pay for ever km they move. I could also tell you a few things about the weaknesses of Haru, but I won't as I am sure it'll be used against me at some point, so I'll just say one thing here and that is: don't try to run down a Haru in a BB. Then again, it is hilarious for me when you try, even if it is a lost game, I almost always get a nice free kill and a lot of dmg out of it, so feel fully free to ignore this advice.. Other than that, suffice to say, she is not magic. Even Haru needs a team. She may be OP, but she's not game-breakingly OP, as she can be countered, and she should be, if your team knows what they're doing. If your team doesn't know what it's doing, or worse, if YOU don't know what you're doing, you end up alone on a flank against a Haru player that DOES know what they're doing and they're like: FOOD! That said, HE is admittedly just plain silly. AP requires a certain understanding of game mechanics, HE requires a semblance of aim and with the ROF of a Haru being what it is, you can just spam HE everywhere and eventually hit something. But this goes for about half the ships in the game as of now. HE is so easy to use, EVERYONE uses it, not just the DDs who have no choice, or the RN BBs who have been deliberately balanced to be better off using it, but even *vomits slightly* Yama players who obviously should know better. You even see BBs using HE all the time, even against broadsiding cruisers.. I would love an overall HE nerf, including Haru, but as long as other ships can spam HE like they'll never run out of ammo, which I guess they won't, don't touch my Haru in her private places. I used to play Shima a lot, but she's become next to impossible to play. You can't cap (radar, gun DDs), you can't torp (torps are too visible, hydro, ships changing course due to radio location), you can't flank (gun DDs, radio location), you can't hide (radar, hydro, radio location). You've got NOTHING left. Haru at least can reach out and touch someone if they're challenged and, if all else fails, you can often take someone down with you, or at least make them regret their life's decisions. Also, again, no offense, but try to see this as a learning moment and become a better player. 1) How did you end up in that situation and how will you avoid getting into that situation next time? 2) what have you learned about Haru and what do you know now doesn't work? 3) What will you do next time you know there is a Haru (or any other DD) nearby, other than blame your team? I don't say this to be mean, just to show there's another way of looking at this. I wish more people would be like: maybe it's not the game, maybe it's not the other players, maybe there's things I can do to have a better experience. I for one try to work out tactics with my team and think I've notice a distinctly better chance of success in games where we agree on a tactic and follow through on it (IE: not agreeing on AB only for one or a few ships to peel off support cos we can't give the enemy a free cap of C, nothing is more frustrating than that). I also try to adjust when my team does not want to play ball, then catch hell when I tell my team what I am doing, then see other people INSIST on going to the cap that is now without a DD, often with predictable results. I can't make other people do what I feel is best, I can only TRY to work with my team and if they actively refuse, that is hella frustrating, but it is on them. Often there is just ZERO response to when I try to work out a play, or people ignore what is 'agreed' on. It is only a random right? But the best games are the ones where the team works together and it is not all dependent on that one unicum that carries the whole team as everyone else derps. And not for a second do I believe I am a better player than anyone else, my stats would swiftly disabuse me of any such notions. I am just making the point that this is a TEAM based game, with CAPPING as an objective, and it should therefore be played as a TEAM, with CAPS in mind at all times. See this as yet another call to arms to bring out the best in all WoWs players, just like the topic I started many moons ago, which can now be found in the Game Guides section. So the next time I or someone else tries to agree on a tactic, say Wilco, or at least what YOU will be doing, follow your DDs and support them, support your cruisers, and they in turn will take care of you cos they won't be sunk and useless. Retarget when you see a weak cruiser or a radar cruiser, or a DD, instead of trying to take down a BB which has a heal and will use it. Learn from your mistakes and try to become a better player. We can do this people, as long as we are willing to work together!
  12. Seriously, my German is good enough that I understand like 90% of the words, but I still can't make heads or tails from it. Something about having been playing for years, winning a lot, but getting stuck with noobs and not getting many wins. Something about maybe making two classes of players, beginners and experienced, him being neither, but.. I dunno. Something about being stuck on 52% winrate which supposedly isn't fun. Something about being so frustrated he's doing experiments to see if he can make mice fly.
  13. This reminds me of a book history book in German I once read. It had sentences that just went on and on and on.. It had more punctuation tho.
  14. The Damage Farm [BB Plague III]

    Great article, @dasCKD! Mostly I think you're spot on, just a few things.. I've started playing Haru a lot since it came to the live server and gotta say I love it. If used right, it can be just what this game needs. Yes, I can do senseless amounts of damage, but I can also do huge amounts of useful damage! It all depends on WHERE you are. I got into this game because it featured BBs, which I love. But in WoWs, BBs are boring. They're slow and more use at long range, too vulnerable when focus fired or up close. Pay a little attention and they're nigh unkillable and can deal with almost anything. I love taking out DDs with my Arkansas Beta for instance.. All in all, they can be fun and are beautiful to look at, but I tire of them quickly. So once this game went out of CBT and into OBT and everything was reset, I went for the DDs and had tons of fun. DDs are faster and zip around the map, often in the heat of the action or trying to get there, contrary to the slow BBs that, if you're unlucky, end up on the wrong side of the map or an island and unable to do much. In the early days, I loved hanging around an enemy BB, shadowing her every move, then torping her without them knowing I was there, never even being spotted. Until they nerfed Shima into oblivion. Hydro, radar, radio location, higher detection ranges for torpedoes, gun DDs that can wipe the floor with a Shima in seconds flat. I still love the good little ship, but playing her is sometimes a chore. I get that people don't like torpedo soup, but, sheesh.. Not so with Haru. Haru can fire from outside of any ship's radar range and that basically is they key to be useful again as a DD. Until radar cruisers are dealt with, you can shoot anything spotted from the safety of your smoke and have mostly torpedoes to worry about. You say she isn't suited for hunting down DDs, but that is not the case. Shima may be able to outspot Haru, but that is no defence at all. The moment I am spotted in Haru, I keep moving in that direction, unless I know enemy ships are nearby and about to obliterate me. Close a little more, spot the widdle Shima, do a ton of damage to it in seconds flat, watch it as it struggles to get away, get support from my team, hit its engines or rudder, hopefully take it out for good, or at least force it to relegate itself to the rear, away from the caps. (In fact, probably the only reason my winrate in Haru isn't even higher, is because I am way too aggressive and eager to deal with enemies in or around caps, or try to cap and then get focused.) Against cruisers or BBs, I usually can't do that, I need the safety of smoke, but as long as someone is spotting, I can deal with them too. Lately some tier X BB players have tried to rush me, which I've dealt with easily with HE and a few torps, that torpedo reload booster really helps. So for the most part, Haru is effective against any type of target. She's vulnerable, but if played right and especially with support, you can clean up. In order to win, however, it all matters WHERE you are and which target you deal with. You can contest a cap, deal with the opposition, then cap it for your team, or just keep the enemy from gaining points from it. From your point of view, you may feel that it would make enemy ships play more defensive, but that doesn't matter. As long as the Haru is aggressive enough, she will compensate for that by taking the fight to the enemy. Also, suddenly damage starts meaning something. Take out the right ships and the enemy team collapses. Do enough damage, even if it isn't fatal, and you set up an enemy ship for destruction. Play it safe to survive long enough and you can keep influencing the battle and ultimately secure victory. In other words, Shima can be countered, at best she can try to deny an area with her torps, but she can't contest a cap without significant support. Caught at the wrong moment, she's just ded. But with a little spotting and from outside of radar range, Haru can take a cap, or deny it. Even in a desperate situation, her guns are fast enough to squeeze of a salvo or to and set a fire that might be devastating. With a bit more time and luck, she can either smoke up and live to fight a bit longer, or just torp TWICE in seconds flat. At short range, against a target that you can see and aim at properly, those torpedoes are absolutely terrifying, and they have 12 km range as well, so even if you miss, you might hit something behind it. (Teehee.) I just wish it was not dependent on the already rampant HE spam, that it could be done in another way. And I do miss the times when Shima was a super stealthy torpboat, that could stay out of trouble. But those days are gone.. Haru, for now, is the next best thing imho. I think it may also say enough that Haru has a really high winrate overall, meaning she probably influences battles exactly as I describe above. Maybe also simply because she can do a ton of damage. Damage IS important in the current meta, and killing ships still IS one of the main ways to win the game, if not THE main way. And that kind of role, she also plays very well. So she can excel at doing damage in the right place and the right time and allowing caps to be held, denied, or taken, or she can help whittle down the enemy team until their caps no longer matter, or both. I prefer to do both. Just my 2 cents.
  15. Radar Discussion Megathread

    Radar on its own can maybe be dealt with, the problem is that there's hydro, spottability of torpedoes, aircraft, radio location, and THEN there's radar too. It makes life for DDs, especially my beloved Shima, too hard. Capping becomes almost impossible, despite this whole game, for some unfathomable reason, revolving around capping and variants of capping. I fully second the notion of making radar follow line of sight. I would also think that radar should only work for YOUR ship. That you can see a ship someone else spots I can get, it is normally by line of sight, so it seems logical that if someone else can see it and you're within sight of it, you can see it too. But radar illuminates things hidden in smoke and THAT is something that is weird. If radar only illuminates for the ship using radar, that might be enough, you could put radar on almost everything, it eliminates a ship getting crossfired into oblivion just because a radar ship sitting safely behind an island illuminates the target for everyone else. It is one reason cruisers can deny a cap for half a game, just by sitting on the edge of an island, barely moving. If line of sight radar is done, then please also make hydro line of sight, for the same reasons. Someone using radar or hydro should be willing to put themselves at risk to get an advantage, give their opponent a fair chance. Radar was heavily used by the allies in WW2, so there is something to be said for keeping it. But something needs to be done, because in CB for instance, you notice radar cruisers make capping so much harder. Playing DD is already often quite unrewarding. You've got little HP, not enough speed and manoeuvrability to reliably get out of trouble, you make ONE bad move and you're done for, which isn't fun. Kinda like getting citadeled in the early stages of the game while playing CA.