Procrastes

There has been no recent nerf to the Graf Spee that I know of. I suspect the poster you quoted was referring to power creep, but I honestly wouldn't say she's been all that power crept either. She's always had her own personal play style, which is fun and engaging but not particularly rewarding if you're looking for raw power and the ability to carry games. I'd say she's still a solid ship to have in your port, both for her unique play style and for sheer historical value.

But there is a counterplay, or did I get that wrong? The submarine can go to "emergency depth", which is a consumable that mitigates a lot of the damage taken from depths charges. And since the sub still keeps the DD spotted, the rest of his team will very likely sink the DD before the sub is sunk (at least in the early game). Since, as you say... A destroyer captain will not reach his true potential until he realizes that he will not survive, and accepts it. Rabbit morghulis!

In all fairness, this sort of bad gunnery discipline is not limited to bots... ...but it is well worth pointing out! (Love your third and last picture above - it sums up my own experience of the submarine escapade quite nicely, so far!)

Oh, for Pete's sake... ...that was actually painful to watch. That ridiculous immunity to depth charges when above 6 meters of depth, has to go... how could that sort of game design even have survived closed testing as far as this?

There are two main problems with SS/BB interaction (or lack thereof) as it currently stands. And this doesn't apply only to battleships, for that matter, but to all ships that are not equipped with ASW. One, when one ship is completely unable to even damage the other unless there is a serious misplay (such as a submarine accidentally surfacing in spite of not needing to do so), the gameplay suffers. Even alone against destroyer or a carrier, the battleship has at least a theoretical fighting chance, and can actively do battle. A ship without ASW that is alone against a submerged submarine, has quite literally nothing to do but wait for death (or for the battle timer to tick down, whichever comes first). This is bad gameplay design, as I see it. Two, when a ship without ASW is alone against a submarine, the gameplay gets just mind-numbingly boring. But you are of course correct in so far as that none of this means that battleships are useless in battles that contain submarines. They can still do a lot of useful stuff in combat against ships from other ship classes. It's only when they end up against a submarine, that things turn sour.

Try the U-69. There is a marked difference in alpha strike capability. Have you tried playing BBs in a submarine battle? I haven't, nor would I care to. Although I suppose I should try it out at least once. It seems horribly one-sided, not to mention boring (for both participants).

I just played my first dozen or so battles in submarines, and oh - my - God. I am equal parts fascinated and appalled. This submarine mess can't be allowed to hit normal random battles. On the surface, there are sonar pings and torpedo waves and spotted surface ships dying left and right to either homing torps or incoming shell fire. Below the surface, there is this weird sub vs. sub homing torpedo battle going on, a surreal underwater ballet that is eerily reminiscent of the jet fighter duels in that 80´s "Top Gun" movie with Tom Cruise but with everything (and not just the sex scenes) moving in slow-motion. Submarine battles have absolutely nothing to do with World of Warships. It's like playing an entirely new game that has been inserted into the old one, with a hunting license. It's like watching a pack of vampires descend on the Gummi Bears and tearing them to shreds - you can't make yourself look away but it's really only funny if you enjoy acts of wanton cruelty against ignorant, defenseless creatures. Make submarine battles into a specialized PvE mode. Or make them part of a specially tailored PvP mode, something like, say, 'Convoy Battles', where conditions are set up so that submarines can function within a set environment that provides balance to the encounter. This could be good. Within a specially designed game mode, I believe that submarines could function very well. But dont - don't - drop them into normal random battles. Please.

Well, then - good to know! Thanks again!

But you're implying that a submerged submarine might be able lo Radio Locate another submerged submarine? Interesting...

Thanks! For what its, worth: This is a great player forum. I post a question, and two minutes later there is a *pling* and I have a polite and informed answer!

Aye, that sounds like a plan. Do you know how the Radio Locations skill works, in a submarine and against one?

According to the token bundle drop generator, my three rental subs will arrive tomorrow. Any tips on which captain skills to go for? And which consumables (if any)?

So what you are saying, is that as long as we can all agree to no sex until marriage, subs will stay in their own separate game mode?

This recent video by Flamu... ...contains a lot of useful input about the problems and balance issues with submarines in their current state. He would benefit by tuning down some of the sarcasm and anti-CV comments, which detract from the relevant message, but his frustration is genuine and clearly stems from an equally genuine concern about the welfare of the game. He offers constructive criticism and provides hands-on suggestions for improvements. Wargaming would do well to listen to what he has to say.

I try not to see Russian bias in every questionable aspect of the game...

Well... ...I seem to have read something along these lines, yes. But even if those ASW weapons are somewhat in the way of firing straight forward (I can't check this right now), this is not - in all fairness - enough of a reason to limit the forward firing capabilities as you describe, unless there are also balance issues involved. The Okhotnik's rear-mounted guns can all fire straight astern, with no concern for the fact that all but one of them are in each other's way (they are all placed in a straight line on the same level). Even with allowances made for a presumed historical lack of care for crew comfort in the imperial Russian navy, the first such salvo would blow all but one of those gun mounts off the deck. So if there is a limitation of effective firing arcs on the Halland, any well-conceived drive to have it alleviated will have my moral support. Equal rights for Swedes and Russians!

That submarine must have been at emergency depth (or whatever they call it in the game), i.e. using that special consumable that protects from depth charges. I did a lot more damage with much fewer hits on one submarine I fought the other day, and so I guess that "my" sub must have been much closer to the surface. I think we can assume that Wargaming will be keeping tabs on the gameplay, and if this "emergency dive" consumable proves too effective, it will probably be nerfed. Let's just hope that happens before they release an op premium submarine that can go to extreme depths...!

Quite right. They also sported a few flotillas of small- to medium-sized spacecraft of largely historical significance. Most of these endearingly named "Star Destroyers" were wiped out by the first Imperial Dreadnought Fleet to arrive in the sector, but some were captured and subsequently refitted for cargo duties. At least one can still be seen in its own stand in the Imperial War Museum on Terra, where it provides a good example of typical post-retro style space-ship design from a nascent Type II civilization.

There have been many emperors across several galaxies, but only one Emperor of All Mankind. For instance, we have the emperor whose heretical rule was terminated by a chapter of Ultramarines together with some three hundred thousand regiments of Imperial Guards in a brief campaign that has since been referred to as "the Jedi Incident". It was so named after its most well-known episode, namely an engagement where a contingent of rogue psykers, dressed up in pajama robes and wielding psychically attuned force blades to limited effect, were eliminated and brought back for further study by the Ordo Malleus.

Me, I rofl-stomped both opposing subs into the seabed and went on to have one of my best days ever in the T-61... but I don't doubt that I will have other, more painful experiences in the weeks to come. I still call it a good start!

And on certain destroyers, such as the Friesland and the Halland, there are forward-firing depth charge mortars mounted (I don't know if that's what they are called, strictly speaking, but they are a form of ASW). I expect them to become fully operational some time in the near future!

And that's why planes should be equipped with depth charges. That would give those flighty buggers something else to focus on, than my poor old destroyer... Good points! Having a mechanic where a successful depth charge hit can force a submarine to the surface, should definitely be worth looking into!

I agree completely! Those skins presented here... ...are just too clean and too pastel. Where is the dirt, the grit, and the wear and tear of countless millennia in service to (or against) the Emperor of All Mankind? Also, no self-respecting imperial/ruinous powers commander would accept a posting on a ship with an atlantic bow. Modernist decadence... a proper Gothic ship has a knife-prow, like the one in post #9: I would welcome some WH40K-stuff in the World of Warships; the WH40KV-2 in World of Tanks shows that - as you say - it can be done in style. But the Wargaming design department needs to read up on their Gothic Grit!

I played my first Submarine battle yesterday. I can now see the reason for handing out the rental subs via a token drop, since this means that there will be not only submarines but also one or two surface ships queuing up to battle, so that's well handled by WG in my opinion. I went out in my T-61, and that worked out very well indeed - I sank five ships, and one of those was a submarine that I got with depth charges. So that was rather fun. But I got a lot of leeway out of the fact that everyone was focused on the subs to the exclusion of all else, so I could basically just drive around and take pot shots - with guns, torps and depth charges - at whatever took my fancy. This will not last. I find it a neat thing that a fighter or spotter plane that spots a submarine, will follow it and hover around it. So maybe I will take out my Perth the next time around, and see how that works out. Too bad I can't equip my little Walrus with depth charges, though! I have some questions that I trust the community knows well how to answer. The Radio Location skill: How does it work when used on, or against, a submarine? How does a CV interact with submarines? Can they spot submerged submarines? According to the WG homepage, they can hit submarines with torpedoes, rockets and bombs at a depth of less than 6 meters - so I assume that this means that rockets and HE bombs will do splash damage, whereas AP bombs (and torpedoes) require a direct hit?

I suspect you can't get Kraken rewards in this game mode, just as you can't get in in a Co-op game. As for why you can't get it, I don't know. I also got five kills in my first submarine battle yesterday, and I got no Kraken either.