Excavatus

so you have THE BEST and MOST POWERFUL broadside, with the best accuracy, and you want to able to overpen more which means you practically want to overpen 32mm bow armor of enemy BBs.. which only 2 of 10 tier IX and X battleships can do? did I understand correctly?

I would be on the side of "Longer battles would be fun" If there are bigger maps with more ships on both teams and a some kind of respawn mechanic. With these maps and player profile and game mechanics, you cant make the matches go hour long.. unless you make the first sailing towards the battle 50 mins long... You can significantly drop the alpha damage but that will cause a huge amount of problems.. the first comes to mind is I can sail in between the enemy lines and torp with my British Cruiser.. every enemyship.. one by one.. and make them flooding. then torp them again one by one.. to make them flood again :)

I am not saying that. And I dont think It can be interpreted from my words. Yes I think a lot of things can be better with tweaks and little touches.. But as I presented my personal observation, you seem to present your ideas on the extereme sides.. like, "Stupid design" "There is no place in this game" "This is the worst idea ever" Just in my own personal opinion... you have very harsh and thick lines when it comes to the game design and balance.. thats all I think.

If you dont put the penetration values in to the account, You already have the best guns in the game...

There are tons of design choices you define as stupid in this game. Arent there?

Some of you know that I am DD captain mainly. I love them.. (only the IJN DDs anyway) I tried ruski DDs on my other account.. 5 battles in tier 2.. I am done with them.. I tried german ones, tier 5.. Bye Bye german DDs.. I am a more of a torpedo boat guy.. I only grinded IJN DDs up to top and I love both my yugumo and shima dearly. I am planning to have their photos framed with their best camo and hang them on the family photo wall next to my kids photos.. I tried US DDs.. I liked them.. not so much.. I cant pass the farragut.. I know it is a good ship.. but not for my style.. I stopped.. tried again.. stopped again.. I dont know how many times I bought and sold farragut. The captain is now turned into a maniac.. getting back his ship and losing her again.. anyway, Out of total boredom! I decided to give it a go to the pan asian DDs... and my reaction is.. WHAT THE FF.... !!! Really? I dont know If it is my endless DD experience from different tech trees or what but these guys looks like incredible..!!! 40K average damage in a tier 2 DD? really? invisible torps with 8.4km range.. with 5.2km detectability.. against tier 3 BB captains.. Really WG?? and the guns?? what?? then I suffered on tier 3.. I didnt like her.. then I said.. oh ok.. this line goes back to normal.. Then the tier 4 comes.. I just got her last night.. played 5 battles in it.. 55K average damage.. 1.4K base xp average.. in tier 4.. are you kidding? These guys looks like US DDs high on meth and viagra constantly... There is no time between smokes when you use premium one and a consumable signal.. 14 seconds between your smoke ends and new one starts.. 5 smoke charges with super intended? who designed these guys.. ?? really??? and after these results I asked in my cabal.. about the rest of the line.. they actually told me they get better and better in the line.. WTF? no wonder YUENYANGS hands my Arse back to me when they found me... I want some people share their exp with the line.. who is the uglyduckling in the line.. which one is the IZUMO of the line.. or PENSACOLA.. and who the hell thought these ships are balanced!!!

You may be right from one angle that you have to play the line upto mid or high tiers to see what they are capable of. I am sure that the high tier german and RU DDs are great to play. I know the high tier US dds are very strong and fun to play. The thing is, I am not having fun grinding the line. so I dropped them. Basic. I am planning to go back to them in the future. I don't know when. Basically they are not the DDs I am looking for right now :)

If you check my first post about the subject, I was talking about that.. When I talk about support.. I dont go into a cap ever without seing which cap is contested, how fast, (how many ships in there) and without knowing which radar / Hydro ship goes where. and having some support to deal with them.. I dont care about getting radared.. If I have support behind me.. :) If there is no radar or longrange hydroship.. Oh boy! cap circle.. here I come!

and it is so much to fun to get detected bu moskva radar from 11kms away.. and when there is no one to distract the enemy.. those 25 seconds will flash infront of your eyes.. :)

there is the only support I need is, guns directed to the enemies on my side.. thats all.. I know most of the radar ranges and durations. I can go one on one with a Khaba in my kagero and a yugumo.. It is just knowing the strong and weak sides of your ship. My point is.. I never go in a cap without at least 2 ships behind me.. in the range of enemy guns.. Which means.. they will draw fire.. and will return fire.. that is the only distraction I need to get away If I need to.. But in most cases.. people go in there alone, without anyone in gun range..

I dont know how much DD experience you have in top tiers.. I respect your opinion anyway. But I disagree completely. with a yugumo and a shima.. It is mostly a suicide in top tiers to go in cap first thing. You would probably get radared, hyrdroed.. and any RU and US DD will rush you.. What do you think happens a KHABA rushes you in a shima.. ?? Especially in IJN DDs.. you have to wait.. and see who goes where.. which cap gets contested.. what happens at the start.. It is better to stay alive rather than denying eneym for the first 2 mins of capping..

The thing is, If you ask me, DDs are the most demanding class to play with. The number of different ways that you can fail are uncountable. The meta knowledge you are expected to know is the highest. You are the fastest with the lowest visibility. You have the biggest area denial weapon.. you are the one who has to spot (If there is no CV) you are the one who has te react to the other side of the map. You are the one who has to reset the base until some reinforcements arrive. You have to learn, radars, hydros, which ship.. how long? reload? reload of guns.. secondary range.. torps? range? speed? ship speeds? you basically need to know almost anything about every ship.. there is no other class which demands this much info When you think about that the CVs are rare in random battles when its compared to the other classes. Usually DDs are the biggest contributers to the win or losses.. But no DD can do anything without support.. you have to have some ships behind you.. or you will get raped. I've seen a lot of idiot DD captains, who goes to an empty cap and request for help and dies. then start blaming the team. You cannot act on your own.. mostly at start.. watch your team.. and lead them . Dont expect them to think with brains mostly. Dont expect them to reach to the conclusion like "My DD needs my help, I should follow him!" The problem is, they think otherwise.. DD is the foot soldier of the team. They go and lightup targets.. we shoot. They go and deny capping for enemy team.. and we shoot. They make enemy BBs turn broadside to us.. we shoot. I know it is bad.. but you are the DD captain you have to be intelligent. Look where your team goes, and go lead them.. If they are totally beyond saving and camps in the one corner of the map.. then you go opposite side.. wait for the enemy to advance and torp them.. Remember.. DDs decide If you win or not.. But they do that with fire support.. DDs are the leader of the team... but with no people behind, leader is just a puny man.. thats all. and for the situation someone posted.. Those red DDs killed themselves.. Never go into a cap without a support.. never ever..

I believe not only tier 3.. but from 2 to 5 they are all the same. With good captain skills an a little bit of knowledge for DD play, those ships are completely fantastic. İnvis torps, nice agility, perma smoke, very good guns. I am on the fushun right now.. dont have too much games in it.. But I think the line coming on to the balance finally. I want to keep one of them as a fun go-to ship.. because it is so much fun to play with them.. and I want to train a second captain for tier 9. I want to keep both IX and X in the end.. but still couldnt decide which one I want.. II - IV or V

Dont forget the nearly perma smoking ability of PA DDs..

the longest radar in this game is what? 35 seconds? If they fire it back to back.. makes what? 1 min 45 seconds.. what is the shortest reload? 2 mins 30 seconds? I dont have the exact numbers and too busy at work to check it out on wiki.. I dont remember the radar module upgrade numbers.. can someone check the numbers and do the math? I dont think it is possible for 3 radar ships to perma radar a cap throughout the game. But I may be wrong

As I can see from your emblem you are a IJN DD captain as well.. Like me.. I feel your pain, especially for CW.. but in CW the lack of different tactics and strategies are killing me mostly. and killing the fun of it.. 1 DD goes here with a radar capable ship.. (If there are 2) and rest goes to other cap.. tactics are %90 this.. there are spots where DM need to park.. There are spots where Montanas need to go, and sit bow on.. I dont know this is because of the map and mode design or lack of creativity due to the fear of losing. But when I compare it with WOT CW or TB tactic variaty it is just dull. And for the radar, I support my case. Even in CW, If there is an island in the cap, I want them to waste radar on me while I am capping behind that islan. no 3 ships can cover a cap with permanent radar. I've never seen it. and I've never seen 3 radar ships goes to a same cap.. mostly there are 2 radar ships and they split. and even enemy sends 3 radar ships to a cap.. that means with at least 1 DD.. and probably the BB would be heading there too.. the other cap would be a piece of cake to cap..

In the current situation, It is a good thing that radar penetrating the islands IMO Because when you hide behind an island it doesnt matter they see you or not. They mostly cant hit you. When I get detected behind an island or W/O line of sight.. I just wait for 30 seconds to radar fade away.. and carry on my bussiness. I wouldn't like it better If I go behind and island oblivious that there is radar runnind nearby. But I believe everyones problem is that actually radar ships, especially american ones, sit behind islands for 15 mins.. and lob shells around. Yeah I know it. People call it is fun.. I cant understand either. But when you think about it, there are people who likes to watch criket on this world too.

I really escaped from the folk who refuses to understand WHAT A FRIGGING PATENT MEANS!! and continuously trying to blame MM because of their failure. Please do not bring rigged MM discussions in this forum.. please.. you guys must be smarter than that.. For curious ones, A patent is a legal piece of document which protects the ideas written in it from getting stolen for a given time. When that time expires, the idea owner have to renew the patent or the ideas will go free. So.. There are millions... millions of patents in the world which even have no connection to the reality. One example, A guy in england, designed (imagined) a pulse engine for space travel and he detailed it and patented it. He believes If something from his ideas came to life one day, the grandson of his grandson will be rich... So.. WG.. thought about a lot of MM ideas.. and put them in a patent.. because IF in the future, they want to or need to change anything, they wanted to own those ideas beforehand. On the early days of internet. People started to buy domain names of the big companies.. For example, some people bought www.BOSCH.com adress for 15 dolars a year. Then company decided to go live on web. ups! their domain name has been taken. and the guy wanted to sell it for 15.000 dollars.. after a while new laws prevented that but.. This is what a patent is basiclly.. You think something, you think it is a good think and you want people to prevent using it for NOW or in the FUTURE

OH THE HOLY SERB! BLESS US WITH YOUR RNG! ACCEPT OUR SACRIFICE YOU ARE THE ONE AND THE MIGHTY! chant these words with the melody of any russian folk music while you are shedding blood. Then buy any package from premium shop above 30 Euros.. you will have blessed RNG for about a month!

as for me, I have an outdoors job :) kind of mixed actually But my free time divided into 4 things.. Reading/writing, Wows, Working out. (1 hour daily) Playing some music. (weekends) Usually you can say wows takes at least %50 of my free time :)

Thank god some of the people in this community are not as busy and frustrated as you

Guys.. it is continuing in the tier 5 again.. I am really not posting these things to brag (may be a little but not totally :P) Maybe playing tier 9 and 10 DD battles for over the last 2 months helped me a great.. Yes DDs are the only class I can say I can play above average.. But thats not me in total.. Something is not right with these ships.. I played 31 battles in them last 3 days.. with 8 battles in a cruiser.. 4 losses from cruiser. 2 from Jainwei 25 wins 6 losses.. Seriously WG? MM must be rigged

Holding fire to have another kill is a big problem but thats not the issue here. OP was complainin about that Kurfürst stealing a kill he is entitled to (just an example) If he was complainin about "Ships holding fire to get a kill ribbon, damaging the team and lowering the chances of victory" then I would totally in the same boat with him. But If you feel you are personally entitled to something in a team game, I dont argue about the context.. that is plain wrong! you win or lose as a team.. every single shell damaging the enemy is counted towards that. End of story. People making bad decisions on target selecting. Holding fire, torping already burning and dying BB with a 2 full TB squadron.. these are totally different subjects but it comes down back to my above paragraph. That holding fire GK is no different than our OP. they both Playing for THEMSELVES. That is because they think they are entitled to something. For example.. I had no ship XP signals left. Which the KRAKEN gives.. Last night, I had 4 kills.. chasing the last enemy ship.. A BB trying to escape.. I burned him 2 perma fires.. he had only 500 or less HP.. then a full salvo of a BB came from nowhere.. killed him.. I missed my chance in Kraken.. did I a little bit felt dissappointed.. ofcourse.. did I get angry at that guy.. no.. I totally agree.. and stated that above somewhere.. Mission and campaing design is a total failure IMO, WG is trying to advertise the individual performance.. but that is nothing to do with Teamkilling.. yes may seen as a cause for people think their achievements got stolen.. but the main problem is, peoples' though process which I've humbly tried to explained above in this post.

Yes they are different games. No they are the same on the teamplay aspect. There are important things to do, important points to take, important parts of the map to cover. The important skills are the same. Knowing the maps, knowing the meta data of the ships. Knowing your ship. Experienced captain (crew for wot), premium consumables, good upgrades (modules for wot), and as I've said earlier.. the most important of them all.. DECISIONS DECISIONS DECISIONS.. Just think about it. How many times you beached yourself in a very heated situation? you couldnt decide to go either left or right of that island.. and when you made up your mind it was too late.. How many times.. when was the last time.. Which ship you fire at when you presented by multiple targets? Please do not carry that patent in here too.. Any person who has a shred of intelligence and at least alive 2 brain cells.. read that patent.. please do not talk about a document without reading it first. Have you read it? I dont think so. But even If you did.. then answer me please.. If that patent is correct.. where are the flying spaceships?? or where are the totally random, not even caring about the types of vehicles MM..?? See.. people who really have no general idea what A PATENT is, talks about a specific patent without even reading it.. in wot forums for years. I have to give the credit to the idiot who first MADE A PAGE FOR THAT! got a big fan base.. It was like moths flying to the light at dark.. But please.. keep that idiocy out of wows forum. I want to believe the general intelligence of Wows community is at least even slightly higher than WOT community. Dear OP, You cannot post some screenshot, tell a story and expect people to comment on that. Please, share a couple battles you think you played good and your team let you down. and let them people watch it and comment on that. You can have incredible insights on yourself.

Dear WG, Please set fire the person or team who is responsible for the maintenance and stability of your servers. It is not fun to get disconnected from a battle and not getting in back for a while then get in and find yourself farmed. and it is not me.. at least half of the BOTH teams in MORE THAN ONCE TONIGHT was disconnected and asking the wellbeing of your all relatives in the battle chat. Be the company who a lot of people PAY MONEY.. and solve your server issues.. Feck you kindly!