Excavatus

I am nearsighted mate.. That is a very long distance to say high!! I can't even make that whether you are wawing or making impolite hand gestures from that distance. But usually HIV, makes really bad finger motions when I try to target them!

The detectability of a ship has 2 values, one is for surface detectability, the other is for air detectability. The air detectability of all ships are always (usually) below the surface value, and the gap between surface and air detectability values are while very small in BBs, getting bigger and bigger when the ship size shrinks.. So the ship in question Karlsruhe, has 10,62km of surface detectability and 5,55km air detectability. (source: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Karlsruhe) So If these values are updated, with the skill of CE, you should detect it around 4.95km, If these are the old values, the new value without CE should be 4.44 and with CE it should be roughly 4kms.. I don't know why it got detected on 4.7, but long story short, the air detectability got buffed. Not the surface one.

If you ask me, They worked because there were so few of them around. before the rework it was like.. random... random... random.. random with a CV... oh balls... lets die horribly in my Musashi against that hakuryu! 25 more random battles without a CV.. Rinse and repeat. They weren't working because it was good but they were a rare breed.

First of all, the moderator part! I've cleaned up the thread a little bit. It is like walking on the glass. I can understand the frustration these changes and test phase creating on both sides. Frankly I am a part of one of those sides, but please try not to vent out on each other, be a litte more kind and try not to resort on foul language! Now, the player part, I've played CVs, very little before patch, a little more after patch, watched a lot of videos from almost all CCs, My thoughts are like this now. The problem of CVs for me is more fundamental. The foundation of the CV mechanics are the problem. The short version, CVs are not like other ships, CVs are removing Skill VS Skill combat. A little longer version, When you are in any surface ship, you can attack or defend against any other ship by using your ships strenghts and trying to prevent the enemy to use your weaknesses. For example, A hindi VS Stalingrad. Stalingrad player will want to keep hindi away and bow on.. because hindi has torps, and stalingrad has weak side armor. Hindi player will want to get close or get onto the side of the stalingrad... This 1 on 1 battle will be a skill smash. When to turn? When yo angle? How to bait shots? Can you torp without eating stalin salvo on your side.. etc etc.. The problem is, defending against a CV does not involve any skill.. or we can say so less skill which we can neglect. It is just what modules you put on your ship, what captain skills you get, how strong your AA is etc. You get in a Division of 2 AA cruisers.. stay together and you can forget there is a CV in a game, Combat againsts CV is heavily based on auto mechanics, and RNG, which is the broken foundation IMO. On the other hand, CV is usually and generally un detected most of the time and away from harm. Killing planes don't harm CVs, It is like shooting the guns of a BB and incapacitating them over and over again. But the BB floats happily ever after. IMO there is no balancing point for CVs to make both CV captains and surface captains happy. Everybody wants to have fun. Yes. And your fun is killing and/or damaging enemies, winning battles. CVs can either be strong or weak. Because of this non-skill depended defence on surface ships and protected gamestyle of CVs, you cannot put the SHIP actively in the battle. So.. Very short.. I don't think you can make both NonCV and CV players at the same time. It is against the current mechanics.

Please share the name of your mind altering drug of choice! I liked the end result!!! :P

The thing is gentelmen, It is the evil plan of @MrConway We got auditioned for the mod roles, and I have to admit, I got more than a couple of trolling messages and even more toxic entries in game chat.. So they made us promise not to do that again... They offered us an authority position.. and they put a collar on us.. Do you know how hard it is to hold myself to shout edited to the edited edited people in my team in randoms??? but I do that! I hold myself.. Plan is working perfectly... now @Boris_MNE is under control! PS1: I edited my bad words myself before I post..... so.. no need for warnings.. PS2: a voice in me says "LOCK THIS TOPIC"... I... Must.... resist.....

Can't you see the mistake here? Mathematical sense in random distribution? There is no sense in random, no logic, no expectation. Nothing can be deducted, nothing can be guessed.. That is random... random... is random... when you toss a coin hundred times, It is the same chance that you get 100 Tails, or %50 - 50 or 25 - 75.. Chance is always the same.. Because... it is random.. If you don't manipulate the system... So, when you ask for a mathematical sense in a random distribution, you are actually ASKING for a manipulation... Yeah I get it, Sometimes team mates can make you tear your hair out. on sunday, started playing games.. 9 games.. 9 losses.. I said.. Ok I am out.. not my day.. If you keep losing, take a break.. because you are the only constant in your matches, and If you get frustrated, you started to play a little worse in every game, and contribute less.. again.. I can understand where you are coming from.. but don't push.. Take a break.. take a deep breath.. watch some videos.. try to have fun on something else.. Don't turn your gaming experince in to a stockholm syndrome!

I personally think that If you are playing a game that is constantly being patched up, you should read every live patch before you log in... I always thought it is common sense :) It is not like they are being secret about patch notes and it is not like you cannot see that the client is being updated. On the matter, I think that is a great buff for torpedo boats and other long range torpedo carrying cruisers... But with all these buzz above in the air, playing DDs is completely unfun right now.. that is another discussion though... Since the hotfix, I surrendered to the dark side, and I am playing battleships :) I am becoming a BBaby... prepare your bingo cards.. because I started to think that fire is too uncontrollable, BB dispersion is bad, torpedo bombers are a massive pain in the back and nerf DDs plox!

Naming and shaming is against the forum rules! It does not help anyone.

My ideas are forming better and better every day after the rework & hotfix, The problem CVs are creating is the new meta is less fun than the old meta for surface ships. Especially for DD players. It is not the rocket planes but it is the countered stealth.. and on the other hand, the fundamental problem with CV mechanics, you are not countering the CV itself. CV does not have a counter. It can sail freely unless it is rushed.. It is out of range almost always, un detected almost always. we are trying to fight against a warship, in a game named world of warships, that we usually cannot touch until end of a winning battle. but it can touch us in many ways in many numbers! You can only counter the planes, and that counter has so little skill.. It is just an arbitery number on the ship stats.. either you kill planes or not. You press O and click.. and hit consumable key If you have.. This is not a good mechanic. When any surface ship against any surface ship.. it is mostly %90 about skills of the captains... when any ship against a CV.. it is just... RNG and ship stats.. this is not good.. not at all...

Nobody? CV hotfix is in the game..!! I am at work cannot check it.. Come on!!! Share something.. The only thing I know is from our clans Discord! somebody said this! gents take out your Minos - tested it this morning, CVs are no problem any more

0.8.0.1 Hotfix is in the game. Changelog: In Update 0.8.0.1 we will carry out balance changes and improvements of aircraft carriers and AA stats. To reduce the attacking and spotting potential of Attack Aircraft against destroyers in high-tier battles, the number of aircraft in the squadron was changed to 9, and in the attack group to 3. The changes affected the aircraft carriers VIII Lexington, VIII Shokaku, X Midway, X Hakuryu. Increased the height which returning aircraft need to reach in order to become invulnerable to AA fire. This will allow ships to fire longer on returning aircraft and will help to counter the tactic in which the player gives the order to the squadron to return immediately after the first attack group’s run (“F” key by default). Maneuvering among the AA explosions allows you to reduce the damage received from air defense, even while in the AA range of ships with powerful air defense. We redistributed the efficiency of air defense between the constant damage taken and the puffs of damage from explosions - the efficiency was increased for the former and decreased for the latter. This will keep the tactics of dodging explosions still effective, but it will not allow planes to stay too long in the range of air defense without taking significant losses, especially when attacking a formation of ships. Changed several features of the Japanese torpedo bombers. Now, if during the preparation for the attack, the attack group maneuvers, your aim will not stabilize (aiming cone stops narrowing). And when maneuvering during an attack run - begins to widen. In order to carry out an effective attack, you need to preemptively choose the line of attack and try not to make last-minute maneuvers. Reduced the chance of flooding by approximately a third for the Japanese aerial torpedoes in tiers IV-VIII, and by half for German (tier VIII) and Japanese (tier X) aerial torpedoes. Significant changes have affected the alternative plane torpedo module for X Hakuryu. The attack run preparation is now longer, and more difficult - the parameters of the aiming were changed and the angles of the torpedo spread were increased even when aiming is at its most accurate. In addition, the delay before the start of a new attack is increased. We have significantly changed the characteristics of torpedoes: reduced speed, increased detection radius and arming time. The speed of all aircraft when returning to their carrier is reduced. To increase the effectiveness of attacks, we added resistance to AA damage for bombers at the time of readiness to attack (when the aiming indicator turns green). In this phase of the attack, all bombers will receive 30% less damage. Bug fixes: the aiming for the stock attack aircraft on the carrier VI Rangeris now similar to the aiming for all American attack aircraft. The characteristics of the basic 'Fighter' consumable for V Emeraldare brought to the same value as 'Fighter II' and the minimum speed of the stock Japanese bombers of all tiers does not exceed the minimum speed on the researchable bombers. Short-range AA defenses now include guns up to 30 mm. This change will combine weak medium-range AA defenses with short-range AA defenses, strengthening the latter and removing the zone where the effectiveness of anti-aircraft guns was low. This will affect ships such as, for example, the cruisers VII Atlanta, VI Pensacola, VI Dallasand battleships VII Coloradoand VI Arizona. If the ship has no 30 mm AA guns, medium-range AA defenses start at 1 km. These ships' AA configuration will now be emphasized if you can't shoot planes inside of a 1km range.

*Edited*

For spotting, I guess the best idea to save DDs right now is, Change DD air detectability to 1km for all DDs.. The CV cannot target them that close, and cannot stay on them for constant spotting. It won't solve the problem completely, but it would be a start.

The problem I am seing after another 2 days, There is no counter for the CVs. Yes there are some counter measures to mitigate the damage you took from planes, you cannot counter the ship itself... the ship itself can spew planes after planes after planes after planes. every ship has a counter, except CVs. It is like going against another ship in your BB or CA.. dodging shells, bow tanking... but not firing back :) good luck winning that battle.. the only thing you can do is to manage to survive longer. The only thing you can do against a CV is now the same. Survive longer, make him waste time with you. You never can make him feel in danger...

This is my core feeling since I started playing this game. They are (CVs) playing a complete different game than anybody. Before the Update and after the update. Yes a CV is a warship, but it changed the Naval Warfare far beyond any captains imagination when they've introduced into the seas. In this game, that is the same. They are playing a different game. Yes I know I will be called a lot of different names after this. But I agree, CVs, actually don't have a place in this game... Or should I say, The game would be better without CVs, and very easy to balance out for the devs. I've got invited for pagan online for a while, last night I've installed it :) PS: I have no idea why can't I get away from WG games...

Gunboat DDs can manage still.. even though they are having some problems... But Torp boat DDs.. Specifically the IJN line looks like shafted very hard. With almost constant spotting... I am playing with ranger now, and with my rocket planes, I can go find the sneaking DD in under a min. My div mate says, I am spotted, there is a DD here.. OK! hit F, double X (my rocket planes) Wrooooom! Hello DD.. would you like to discuss your future in this game?

This is really passed with the roar of the CVs under the table but.. My moskva and Kronhstad like to have a word with WG people...

it is not random. Player intelligence is random Your AA is stable.. some CV players just fly through your flak explosions and you get to delete whole squadrons, some CV players they know how to use WASD and dodge your flak explosions, since almost all of the continuous DPS of AA in game (without DefAA) is laughable at best... I think you get the point :) and lets wait until people learn the CVs better :)

One of them must be longer. I've read about it years ago.. Yeah jupiter is the fastest one remember now :) let me check... . . . . Yep it was venus. 5.832 hours... for a day..

2 days of what? jupiter?? you are so hopeful mate...

F abuse will be adressed by WG I presume.. and even It won't, right now, defAA is even more useless. Most CVs don't care about it. But If the panic drop comes back, then the CV can go find another target, or press F and come back after the defAA dies but in both cases, that will give a little time to the subject of the CV attack to relocate or seek help. As I've said, It won't be a perfect solution but it will be a start, which will be better than the current condition regardless.

IMO, DefAA = Panic drop should come back. Will solve a lot of problems. and adjust the DefAA duration according to the full squadron attack times.. It will be a start..

This thread is not for self made posts. It is for news from "Dev blog, WG web site, or other official or semi-official sources"

I have a couple more things to say after another 2 days... I am thinking that AA is much more random now.. A tier 10 CV, closes to my Harugumo for an attack, there is a mino 5km behind me.. I kill 9 planes.. no attack from CV.. Another tier 10 CV, closes to me with rocket planes.. I am in a salem, there is a Desmo 2km behind me.. we activate DefAA together.. CV breaks through the AA, hit me with 10K rocket damage.. then proceeds to run away.. I killed 2, Desmo killed 1 plane. I believe AA should be more consistent.. On another note, The meta is changing heavily. And I don't think I am gonna like this meta very much. Almost always spotted by CVs, People moving in a complete blob, instead of holding good positions to hold the enemy back. DDs running front, then running back scared and staying behind the allies, more and more shimas holding 20km torps... Lets see what happens in a month...